Jon Woellhaf
April 14th 09, 10:07 PM
Last week I again experienced ATC confusion near Phoenix.
Background: On 6 Apr 09 I used AOPA's flight planner to plan IFR from
Longmont, CO (KLMO) to Falcon Field, Mesa, AZ (KFFZ) via the low altitude
route HYGEN V85 FQF V389 PUB V611 FTI V60 OTO V12 ABQ V190 BARGN at 12,000.
When I attempted to file, the ATC computer rejected the route, claiming
BARGN wasn't on V190. I tried again with the same result. I talked to a
briefer and explained the situation and he soon discovered that BARGN is a
GPS waypoint. I had him try LAKEY instead and the computer accepted that. I
modified the AOPA route to end at LAKEY and filed successfully. I told AOPA
I was /A, so why did they give me a GPS waypoint?
Confusion #1: On 7 Apr 09 I departed Longmont VFR and flew south. I called
Departure and asked to open my flight plan. They didn't have it. Frustrated,
I got Flight Following until south of the Denver Class B, then called Flight
Service and filed the route as I'd programmed it into my GPS: LUFSE PUB CIM
FTI OTO ABQ SJN LAKEY. The briefer said that was on file. I discovered later
that evening that I'd neglected to verify the departure time on the third
attempt to get my AOPA plan filed. I intended it to be 1600Z, but it was
0230Z. My bad.
I contacted Springs Approach (Colorado Springs, CO) and opened my flight
plan. I was cleared direct PUB then as filed.
Confusion #2: The rest of the flight progressed mostly normally until I was
about 65 DME from PXR (the Phoenix, AZ VOR) on V190. Then the following
conversation between me and Albuquerque Center took place (abbreviated):
Center: November five two one eight november, upon, ah, joining the, ah,
zero three eight radial descend and maintain one zero thousand.
Me: One eight november. Upon reaching the Phoenix zero three eight
radial descend, ah, one zero, ten thousand.
Me (a couple minutes later): One eight november is heading direct
Phoenix and I don't see how I'm going to intercept the zero three eight
radial.
Center: And, ah, one eight november, I'm showing you, ah, flight plan
is, ah, St Johns, (unintelligible), victor one ninety, to intercept the
Willie zero three eight radial to Willie then to Falcon Field.
Me: Ah, one eight november, I was never given that.
I soon got vectors and made it to Falcon.
How is it possible that Albuquerque Center had a different route than I
filed and that I wasn't informed of the change?
I haven't had this happen before. Should I ask for a full route clearance
next time?
Background: On 6 Apr 09 I used AOPA's flight planner to plan IFR from
Longmont, CO (KLMO) to Falcon Field, Mesa, AZ (KFFZ) via the low altitude
route HYGEN V85 FQF V389 PUB V611 FTI V60 OTO V12 ABQ V190 BARGN at 12,000.
When I attempted to file, the ATC computer rejected the route, claiming
BARGN wasn't on V190. I tried again with the same result. I talked to a
briefer and explained the situation and he soon discovered that BARGN is a
GPS waypoint. I had him try LAKEY instead and the computer accepted that. I
modified the AOPA route to end at LAKEY and filed successfully. I told AOPA
I was /A, so why did they give me a GPS waypoint?
Confusion #1: On 7 Apr 09 I departed Longmont VFR and flew south. I called
Departure and asked to open my flight plan. They didn't have it. Frustrated,
I got Flight Following until south of the Denver Class B, then called Flight
Service and filed the route as I'd programmed it into my GPS: LUFSE PUB CIM
FTI OTO ABQ SJN LAKEY. The briefer said that was on file. I discovered later
that evening that I'd neglected to verify the departure time on the third
attempt to get my AOPA plan filed. I intended it to be 1600Z, but it was
0230Z. My bad.
I contacted Springs Approach (Colorado Springs, CO) and opened my flight
plan. I was cleared direct PUB then as filed.
Confusion #2: The rest of the flight progressed mostly normally until I was
about 65 DME from PXR (the Phoenix, AZ VOR) on V190. Then the following
conversation between me and Albuquerque Center took place (abbreviated):
Center: November five two one eight november, upon, ah, joining the, ah,
zero three eight radial descend and maintain one zero thousand.
Me: One eight november. Upon reaching the Phoenix zero three eight
radial descend, ah, one zero, ten thousand.
Me (a couple minutes later): One eight november is heading direct
Phoenix and I don't see how I'm going to intercept the zero three eight
radial.
Center: And, ah, one eight november, I'm showing you, ah, flight plan
is, ah, St Johns, (unintelligible), victor one ninety, to intercept the
Willie zero three eight radial to Willie then to Falcon Field.
Me: Ah, one eight november, I was never given that.
I soon got vectors and made it to Falcon.
How is it possible that Albuquerque Center had a different route than I
filed and that I wasn't informed of the change?
I haven't had this happen before. Should I ask for a full route clearance
next time?