Canada's role in the future

[John Locke]

Canada's military is, and has been for over a decade, in a state of
disarray. This is largely due to two facts. The first is the Trudeau
government, which preached quasi-socialist values and viewed the
Soviet Union not as an aggressor, but rather as the victim of American
agression. Trudeau managed to spit on the Army, Air Force, and Navy on
both sides of the border.

The second elements in Canada's dangerous decline is the Chretien
government. Chretien, like many politicos, believed the end of the
Cold War meant an end to hostilities: there would be no more battles.
Peacekeeping would be Canada's military's only role. One of Chretien's
first actions was to cancel the replacement of the Sea King helicopter
with the EH-101. Clearly, the helicopters were needed, and if the
order was not cancelled, Canadian forces would have new helicopters by
now rather than risking lives flying antique Sea Kings that cost more
money to maintain than they are worth.

Chretien sent us into many theaters, from Somalia, Haiti, the former
Yugoslavia, and lastly Afghanistan. Not only were are troops stretched
dangerously thin, they were sent into combat under equipped.

But there is also a larger societal power at play. For some reason in
the last 50 years, Canadians have begun to believe that their soldier
should be more social worker than hardened killer. Peacekeeping is a
noble enterprise, but it must be remembered that it requires the peace
to be kept. How effective was peacekeeping in Rwanda in 1994.

A Conservative government under Stephen Harper must revitalize not
only the numbers and equipment of the Canadian forces, but also
clearly state what we want out of our forces. Is it peacekeeping,
peacemaking, social work, etc. Of course, the role of our forces
should be to do what is in our country's national interest, something
they are currently incapable of doing. Soldiers must consider killing
their first task. Everything else is secondary.

The world is not a friendly place, and there is little prospect of it
becoming peaceful any time soon. Canada should live up to its global
role and enlarge its forces significantly.

JL

[Brian Colwell]

"John Locke" > wrote in message
om...
> Canada's military is, and has been for over a decade, in a state of
> disarray. This is largely due to two facts. The first is the Trudeau
> government, which preached quasi-socialist values and viewed the
> Soviet Union not as an aggressor, but rather as the victim of American
> agression. Trudeau managed to spit on the Army, Air Force, and Navy on
> both sides of the border.
>
> The second elements in Canada's dangerous decline is the Chretien
> government. Chretien, like many politicos, believed the end of the
> Cold War meant an end to hostilities: there would be no more battles.
> Peacekeeping would be Canada's military's only role. One of Chretien's
> first actions was to cancel the replacement of the Sea King helicopter
> with the EH-101. Clearly, the helicopters were needed, and if the
> order was not cancelled, Canadian forces would have new helicopters by
> now rather than risking lives flying antique Sea Kings that cost more
> money to maintain than they are worth.
>
> Chretien sent us into many theaters, from Somalia, Haiti, the former
> Yugoslavia, and lastly Afghanistan. Not only were are troops stretched
> dangerously thin, they were sent into combat under equipped.
>
> But there is also a larger societal power at play. For some reason in
> the last 50 years, Canadians have begun to believe that their soldier
> should be more social worker than hardened killer. Peacekeeping is a
> noble enterprise, but it must be remembered that it requires the peace
> to be kept. How effective was peacekeeping in Rwanda in 1994.
>
> A Conservative government under Stephen Harper must revitalize not
> only the numbers and equipment of the Canadian forces, but also
> clearly state what we want out of our forces. Is it peacekeeping,
> peacemaking, social work, etc. Of course, the role of our forces
> should be to do what is in our country's national interest, something
> they are currently incapable of doing. Soldiers must consider killing
> their first task. Everything else is secondary.
>
> The world is not a friendly place, and there is little prospect of it
> becoming peaceful any time soon. Canada should live up to its global
> role and enlarge its forces significantly.
>
> JL

Not sure what this n/g has to do with your domestic political
campaign.....Send it to the National Post !

BMC

[tim gueguen]

"John Locke" > wrote in message
om...
> Canada's military is, and has been for over a decade, in a state of
> disarray. This is largely due to two facts. The first is the Trudeau
> government, which preached quasi-socialist values and viewed the
> Soviet Union not as an aggressor, but rather as the victim of American
> agression. Trudeau managed to spit on the Army, Air Force, and Navy on
> both sides of the border.
>
No, I suspect the real truth is that Trudeau decided that if there was ever
a war between NATO and the Warsaw Pact it would swiftly go nuclear and we'd
all be dead. So he didn't see the point in large expenditures on the
military.

> But there is also a larger societal power at play. For some reason in
> the last 50 years, Canadians have begun to believe that their soldier
> should be more social worker than hardened killer. Peacekeeping is a
> noble enterprise, but it must be remembered that it requires the peace
> to be kept. How effective was peacekeeping in Rwanda in 1994.
>
It would have been effective if the UN biggies had been willing to pony up
the forces needed to stop the massacres. They weren't.

> A Conservative government under Stephen Harper must revitalize not
> only the numbers and equipment of the Canadian forces, but also
> clearly state what we want out of our forces.

But it appears so far they won't. They'll just throw money at things so
they can say, "See, we're spending more. See, we bought some cool new toys
so we'll look cool like the other guys." In reality a major defense review
is needed.

tim gueguen 101867

[Jarg]

"tim gueguen" > wrote in message
news:5Lpyc.730683$oR5.701504@pd7tw3no...
>
> "John Locke" > wrote in message
> om...
> > Canada's military is, and has been for over a decade, in a state of
> > disarray. This is largely due to two facts. The first is the Trudeau
> > government, which preached quasi-socialist values and viewed the
> > Soviet Union not as an aggressor, but rather as the victim of American
> > agression. Trudeau managed to spit on the Army, Air Force, and Navy on
> > both sides of the border.
> >
> No, I suspect the real truth is that Trudeau decided that if there was
ever
> a war between NATO and the Warsaw Pact it would swiftly go nuclear and
we'd
> all be dead. So he didn't see the point in large expenditures on the
> military.
>


If so, that would have been a self fulfilling idea! The onle only way NATO
could have defended itself without strong conventional forces would have
been to use nukes. And for that matter, the same weakness might have
encouraged the other side to start a war.


In reality a major defense review
> is needed.
>
> tim gueguen 101867
>
>

[Brian Colwell]

"tim gueguen" > wrote in message
news:5Lpyc.730683$oR5.701504@pd7tw3no...
>
> "John Locke" > wrote in message
> om...
> > Canada's military is, and has been for over a decade, in a state of
> > disarray. This is largely due to two facts. The first is the Trudeau
> > government, which preached quasi-socialist values and viewed the
> > Soviet Union not as an aggressor, but rather as the victim of American
> > agression. Trudeau managed to spit on the Army, Air Force, and Navy on
> > both sides of the border.
> >
> No, I suspect the real truth is that Trudeau decided that if there was
ever
> a war between NATO and the Warsaw Pact it would swiftly go nuclear and
we'd
> all be dead. So he didn't see the point in large expenditures on the
> military.
>
> > But there is also a larger societal power at play. For some reason in
> > the last 50 years, Canadians have begun to believe that their soldier
> > should be more social worker than hardened killer. Peacekeeping is a
> > noble enterprise, but it must be remembered that it requires the peace
> > to be kept. How effective was peacekeeping in Rwanda in 1994.
> >
> It would have been effective if the UN biggies had been willing to pony up
> the forces needed to stop the massacres. They weren't.
>
> > A Conservative government under Stephen Harper must revitalize not
> > only the numbers and equipment of the Canadian forces, but also
> > clearly state what we want out of our forces.
>
> But it appears so far they won't. They'll just throw money at things so
> they can say, "See, we're spending more. See, we bought some cool new
toys
> so we'll look cool like the other guys." In reality a major defense
review
> is needed.
>
> tim gueguen 101867
>
His statement is full of inaccuracies, actually Trudeau supported Reagans
cruise missile testing program.

BMC

[Ron]

om...
>> Canada's military is, and has been for over a decade, in a state of
>> disarray. This is largely due to two facts. The first is the Trudeau
>> government, which preached quasi-socialist values and viewed the
>> Soviet Union not as an aggressor, but rather as the victim of American
>> agression. Trudeau managed to spit on the Army, Air Force, and Navy on
>> both sides of the border.
>>
>No, I suspect the real truth is that Trudeau decided that if there was ever
>a war between NATO and the Warsaw Pact it would swiftly go nuclear and we'd
>all be dead. So he didn't see the point in large expenditures on the
>military.

NATO forces would have a much greater likelihood of having to lob buckets of
instant sunshine during the 1970s to stop the Warsaw pact, than compared to the
80s when conventional forces were stronger.





Ron
Tanker 65, C-54E (DC-4)
Silver City Tanker Base

[Avro Canada Archives]

February 20th, 1959!

Brian Colwell wrote:
> "tim gueguen" > wrote in message
> news:5Lpyc.730683$oR5.701504@pd7tw3no...
>
>>"John Locke" > wrote in message
om...
>>
>>>Canada's military is, and has been for over a decade, in a state of
>>>disarray. This is largely due to two facts. The first is the Trudeau
>>>government, which preached quasi-socialist values and viewed the
>>>Soviet Union not as an aggressor, but rather as the victim of American
>>>agression. Trudeau managed to spit on the Army, Air Force, and Navy on
>>>both sides of the border.
>>>
>>
>>No, I suspect the real truth is that Trudeau decided that if there was
>
> ever
>
>>a war between NATO and the Warsaw Pact it would swiftly go nuclear and
>
> we'd
>
>>all be dead. So he didn't see the point in large expenditures on the
>>military.
>>
>>
>>>But there is also a larger societal power at play. For some reason in
>>>the last 50 years, Canadians have begun to believe that their soldier
>>>should be more social worker than hardened killer. Peacekeeping is a
>>>noble enterprise, but it must be remembered that it requires the peace
>>>to be kept. How effective was peacekeeping in Rwanda in 1994.
>>>
>>
>>It would have been effective if the UN biggies had been willing to pony up
>>the forces needed to stop the massacres. They weren't.
>>
>>
>>>A Conservative government under Stephen Harper must revitalize not
>>>only the numbers and equipment of the Canadian forces, but also
>>>clearly state what we want out of our forces.
>>
>>But it appears so far they won't. They'll just throw money at things so
>>they can say, "See, we're spending more. See, we bought some cool new
>
> toys
>
>>so we'll look cool like the other guys." In reality a major defense
>
> review
>
>>is needed.
>>
>>tim gueguen 101867
>>
>
> His statement is full of inaccuracies, actually Trudeau supported Reagans
> cruise missile testing program.
>
> BMC
>
>

[Regnirps]

Huh? Canadanistan to the Rescue!

-- Charlie Springer

[Ed Majden]

in article , John Locke at
wrote on 6/10/04 17:21:

> Canada's military is, and has been for over a decade, in a state of
> disarray. This is largely due to two facts. The first is the Trudeau
> government, which preached quasi-socialist values and viewed the
> Soviet Union not as an aggressor, but rather as the victim of American
> agression. Trudeau managed to spit on the Army, Air Force, and Navy on
> both sides of the border.
\
What makes you think the Conservatives will be any different??? Perhaps
your not old enough to remember fence sitting Conservative Deif the Chief.
He stupidly cancelled the CF-105 Arrow, couldn't make a decision on nuclear
weapons so was promptly thrown out of office so Liberal Pearson armed the
Bomarcs, the CF-101 and the Cf-104 with US controlled nukes for a time!
Politicians are all mostly self serving twits and the military sadly has to
muddle through on their own. Their long term interests are the next
election!