headset feedback loop during xmit

[Mike Noel]

My Telex 30 headset and SL30 nav/com have developed a loud and annoying
oscillation during xmit. The tone is both obvious in the headset side-tone
and also is heard by other's listening on the frequency.

I've tried two other headsets (a DRE ENR and a non-ANR headset) and both
work fine with the SL30. My com2 is a King 97a and it works fine with all
of my headsets, including the Telex.

The problem seems to have developed in stages over the past several months.
First I was noticing the Telex and SL30 would occasionally give my voice a
hollow sound for the first few transmissions of the day, then sound fine.
Finally last week the tower controller mentioned the squeal which I was also
noticing. It tends to go away after a bit but it sounded odd for the entire
flight.

Has anyone experienced a similar problem? I'm hoping to try a few other
brands of headsets this weekend to see if the headset is the likely culprit.

Best Regards,
Mike.

http://flickr.com/photos/mikenoel/

[[email protected]]

Mike,

I am also having some issues with a Telex Stratus 30 ANR headset. I
have three theories I'm working on.

Making sure the cabin speaker is turned off at the audio
panel.

We've had issues with all tranmissions based on how close we
were to the receiver (we're based real close to the tower).

Trying non-rechargable batteries.

It's pretty frustrating to lay out 4 bills and not being able to use
the headset.

HTH

Chris


On Fri, 24 Apr 2009 17:54:12 -0700, "Mike Noel" >
wrote:

>My Telex 30 headset and SL30 nav/com have developed a loud and annoying
>oscillation during xmit. The tone is both obvious in the headset side-tone
>and also is heard by other's listening on the frequency.
>
>I've tried two other headsets (a DRE ENR and a non-ANR headset) and both
>work fine with the SL30. My com2 is a King 97a and it works fine with all
>of my headsets, including the Telex.
>
>The problem seems to have developed in stages over the past several months.
>First I was noticing the Telex and SL30 would occasionally give my voice a
>hollow sound for the first few transmissions of the day, then sound fine.
>Finally last week the tower controller mentioned the squeal which I was also
>noticing. It tends to go away after a bit but it sounded odd for the entire
>flight.
>
>Has anyone experienced a similar problem? I'm hoping to try a few other
>brands of headsets this weekend to see if the headset is the likely culprit.
>
>Best Regards,
>Mike.
>
>http://flickr.com/photos/mikenoel/
>

[Mike Noel]

Hi Chris...I'm getting the feedback while sitting in my hangar xmitting on
123.45, I've tried several sets of regular alkaline batteries, and I have
the cabin speaker turned off.

--
Best Regards,
Mike.

http://flickr.com/photos/mikenoel/
> wrote in message
...
> Mike,
>
> I am also having some issues with a Telex Stratus 30 ANR headset. I
> have three theories I'm working on.
>
> Making sure the cabin speaker is turned off at the audio
> panel.
>
> We've had issues with all tranmissions based on how close we
> were to the receiver (we're based real close to the tower).
>
> Trying non-rechargable batteries.
>
> It's pretty frustrating to lay out 4 bills and not being able to use
> the headset.
>
> HTH
>
> Chris
>
>
> On Fri, 24 Apr 2009 17:54:12 -0700, "Mike Noel" >
> wrote:
>
>>My Telex 30 headset and SL30 nav/com have developed a loud and annoying
>>oscillation during xmit. The tone is both obvious in the headset
>>side-tone
>>and also is heard by other's listening on the frequency.
>>
>>I've tried two other headsets (a DRE ENR and a non-ANR headset) and both
>>work fine with the SL30. My com2 is a King 97a and it works fine with all
>>of my headsets, including the Telex.
>>
>>The problem seems to have developed in stages over the past several
>>months.
>>First I was noticing the Telex and SL30 would occasionally give my voice a
>>hollow sound for the first few transmissions of the day, then sound fine.
>>Finally last week the tower controller mentioned the squeal which I was
>>also
>>noticing. It tends to go away after a bit but it sounded odd for the
>>entire
>>flight.
>>
>>Has anyone experienced a similar problem? I'm hoping to try a few other
>>brands of headsets this weekend to see if the headset is the likely
>>culprit.
>>
>>Best Regards,
>>Mike.
>>
>>http://flickr.com/photos/mikenoel/
>>

[[email protected]]

On Apr 25, 6:55*am, "Mike Noel" > wrote:
> Hi Chris...I'm getting the feedback while sitting in my hangar xmitting on
> 123.45, I've tried several sets of *regular alkaline batteries, and I have
> the cabin speaker turned off.
>
> --
> Best Regards,
> Mike.
>
> > wrote in message
>
> ...
>
> > Mike,
>
> > I am also having some issues with a Telex Stratus 30 ANR headset. *I
> > have three theories I'm working on.
>
> > Making sure the cabin speaker is turned off at the audio
> > panel.
>
> > We've had issues with all tranmissions based on how close we
> > were to the receiver (we're based real close to the tower).
>
> > Trying non-rechargable batteries.
>
> > It's pretty frustrating to lay out 4 bills and not being able to use
> > the headset.
>
> > HTH
>
> > Chris
>
> > On Fri, 24 Apr 2009 17:54:12 -0700, "Mike Noel" >
> > wrote:
>
> >>My Telex 30 headset and SL30 nav/com have developed a loud and annoying
> >>oscillation during xmit. *The tone is both obvious in the headset
> >>side-tone
> >>and also is heard by other's listening on the frequency.
>
> >>I've tried two other headsets (a DRE ENR and a non-ANR headset) and both
> >>work fine with the SL30. *My com2 is a King 97a and it works fine with all
> >>of my headsets, including the Telex.
>
> >>The problem seems to have developed in stages over the past several
> >>months.
> >>First I was noticing the Telex and SL30 would occasionally give my voice a
> >>hollow sound for the first few transmissions of the day, then sound fine.
> >>Finally last week the tower controller mentioned the squeal which I was
> >>also
> >>noticing. *It tends to go away after a bit but it sounded odd for the
> >>entire
> >>flight.
>
> >>Has anyone experienced a similar problem? * I'm hoping to try a few other
> >>brands of headsets this weekend to see if the headset is the likely
> >>culprit.
>
> >>Best Regards,
> >>Mike.
>
> >>http://flickr.com/photos/mikenoel/

I would wonder about a bad ground within the headset. The ground for
the mike and headphone circuits are the same, and if one ground wasn't
connected properly inside one of the plugs or at the cable within the
set, it might cause the feedback via "ground-looping" through the
other.

Dan

[klp]

You might also try placing a ferrite ring on the mike lead near the
headset. Presently the mic or mic leads are picking up the strong RF
signal from your transmitter & some of the active elements in the mike
are demodulating it. You can get ferrite chokes from misc computer
hardware, misc cables, or maybe even Radio Shack. You will have to
fiddle with the placement etc until you can get rid of the squeal.

Jim Weir (RST Electronics) would have the best answers though, and I'm
sure can fixed this problem.

Jim - are you out there?

[Mike Noel]

Thanks for the suggestions. I also contacted Telex support and they suggest
to first try reducing the microphone gain (CCW) before sending the unit back
to them. I'll follow up later with the results.

--
Best Regards,
Mike.

http://flickr.com/photos/mikenoel/
"Mike Noel" > wrote in message
...
> My Telex 30 headset and SL30 nav/com have developed a loud and annoying
> oscillation during xmit. The tone is both obvious in the headset
> side-tone
> and also is heard by other's listening on the frequency.
>
> I've tried two other headsets (a DRE ENR and a non-ANR headset) and both
> work fine with the SL30. My com2 is a King 97a and it works fine with all
> of my headsets, including the Telex.
>
> The problem seems to have developed in stages over the past several
> months.
> First I was noticing the Telex and SL30 would occasionally give my voice a
> hollow sound for the first few transmissions of the day, then sound fine.
> Finally last week the tower controller mentioned the squeal which I was
> also
> noticing. It tends to go away after a bit but it sounded odd for the
> entire
> flight.
>
> Has anyone experienced a similar problem? I'm hoping to try a few other
> brands of headsets this weekend to see if the headset is the likely
> culprit.
>
> Best Regards,
> Mike.
>
> http://flickr.com/photos/mikenoel/
>
>

[Mike Noel]

Adjusting the mic gain made no difference and so the headset went back to
Telex for warranty repair (36 month warranty on the Stratus 30 and 60 months
for the Stratus 30XT). I'll report back later on my warranty repair
experience with them.
It's a nice headset at a moderate price so I hope I can report back
favorably.

--
Best Regards,
Mike.

http://flickr.com/photos/mikenoel/
"Mike Noel" > wrote in message
...
> My Telex 30 headset and SL30 nav/com have developed a loud and annoying
> oscillation during xmit. The tone is both obvious in the headset
> side-tone
> and also is heard by other's listening on the frequency.
>
> I've tried two other headsets (a DRE ENR and a non-ANR headset) and both
> work fine with the SL30. My com2 is a King 97a and it works fine with all
> of my headsets, including the Telex.
>
> The problem seems to have developed in stages over the past several
> months.
> First I was noticing the Telex and SL30 would occasionally give my voice a
> hollow sound for the first few transmissions of the day, then sound fine.
> Finally last week the tower controller mentioned the squeal which I was
> also
> noticing. It tends to go away after a bit but it sounded odd for the
> entire
> flight.
>
> Has anyone experienced a similar problem? I'm hoping to try a few other
> brands of headsets this weekend to see if the headset is the likely
> culprit.
>
> Best Regards,
> Mike.
>
> http://flickr.com/photos/mikenoel/
>
>

[Bill]

Mike,

This problem is likely caused by Radio Frequency feedback into the
headset from
your transmitter. The transmitted RF field is fairly strong in the
cockpit;
something in the headset demodulates the RF and the resulting audio
feeds back around into the comm radio making the squeals.

It will be worse on some frequencies than others. Sometimes a radio
connected to an antenna on the top or top front of the cabin will be
worse. More power in the transmitter will be worse. The SL-30 has
more RF power than the '97 so could easily be more susceptible.

In Bonanzas, with the batwing antenna right over the cabin, and all
that glass, RF feedback is particularly troublesome.

I once had a Plantronics mic with a small wart on the cable that had
the problem. I wrapped the wart (which had all the semiconductors
that rectify in it) with sticky copper tape and that fixed the
problem.

I've seen the problem a lot with Telex headsets. For awhile they
were the worst. I thought they had solved this problem long ago. It
is a design problem. A headset should be designed with margin
and be bullet proof enough to work in any cockpit without feedback.

The Bose I (and to a smaller extent the X models) have sensitivity to
the frequencies used by ATC radar. When you are sitting on the
ground near one of those rotating antennas, you can hear it zip by
every time it points in your direction. But these headsets are OK at
the usual
VHF frequencies we transmit on, so there is no feedback with them.

It is true that if your cabin speaker is on while you transmit (very
unlikely)
that you could get acoustic feedback and lowering the mic gain might
fix it. But changing the gain will have little effect on RF feedback.

Bill Hale BPPP instructor bppp.org K0QA
Zillions of headset types flown in BPPP clinics


On Apr 29, 4:23*pm, "Mike Noel" > wrote:
> Adjusting the mic gain made no difference and so the headset went back to
> Telex for warranty repair (36 month warranty on the Stratus 30 and 60 months
> for the Stratus 30XT). *I'll report back later on my warranty repair
> experience with them.
> It's a nice headset at a moderate price so I hope I can report back
> favorably.
>
> --
> Best Regards,
> Mike.
>
> http://flickr.com/photos/mikenoel/"Mike Noel" > wrote in message
>
> ...
>
> > My Telex 30 headset and SL30 nav/com have developed a loud and annoying
> > oscillation during xmit. *The tone is both obvious in the headset
> > side-tone
> > and also is heard by other's listening on the frequency.
>
> > I've tried two other headsets (a DRE ENR and a non-ANR headset) and both
> > work fine with the SL30. *My com2 is a King 97a and it works fine with all
> > of my headsets, including the Telex.
>
> > The problem seems to have developed in stages over the past several
> > months.
> > First I was noticing the Telex and SL30 would occasionally give my voice a
> > hollow sound for the first few transmissions of the day, then sound fine.
> > Finally last week the tower controller mentioned the squeal which I was
> > also
> > noticing. *It tends to go away after a bit but it sounded odd for the
> > entire
> > flight.
>
> > Has anyone experienced a similar problem? * I'm hoping to try a few other
> > brands of headsets this weekend to see if the headset is the likely
> > culprit.
>
> > Best Regards,
> > Mike.
>
> >http://flickr.com/photos/mikenoel/

[Stealth Pilot[_2_]]

On Fri, 24 Apr 2009 17:54:12 -0700, "Mike Noel" >
wrote:

>My Telex 30 headset and SL30 nav/com have developed a loud and annoying
>oscillation during xmit. The tone is both obvious in the headset side-tone
>and also is heard by other's listening on the frequency.
>
>I've tried two other headsets (a DRE ENR and a non-ANR headset) and both
>work fine with the SL30. My com2 is a King 97a and it works fine with all
>of my headsets, including the Telex.
>
>The problem seems to have developed in stages over the past several months.
>First I was noticing the Telex and SL30 would occasionally give my voice a
>hollow sound for the first few transmissions of the day, then sound fine.
>Finally last week the tower controller mentioned the squeal which I was also
>noticing. It tends to go away after a bit but it sounded odd for the entire
>flight.
>
>Has anyone experienced a similar problem? I'm hoping to try a few other
>brands of headsets this weekend to see if the headset is the likely culprit.
>
>Best Regards,
>Mike.
>
>http://flickr.com/photos/mikenoel/
>

sure have and Jim Weir gave me the answer twice, about 8 years apart.
corrosion between the antenna wire and the antenna mount causes the rf
to fail to make it into the antenna so it gets radiated inside the
aircraft, gets picked up in the mike boom and feeds back through the
radio as an unholy squeal.
in my case the antenna mount and the base to the wire are both brass
so a good going over with brasso and a toothbrush has cleaned away the
crud and restored the radio to perfect service each time.

the second time while beavering away I though 'I've had to do this
before????' ages later the memory of the first time returned.

thanks Jim

Stealth Pilot

[Ross]

Bill wrote:
> Mike,
>
> This problem is likely caused by Radio Frequency feedback into the
> headset from
> your transmitter. The transmitted RF field is fairly strong in the
> cockpit;
> something in the headset demodulates the RF and the resulting audio
> feeds back around into the comm radio making the squeals.
>
> It will be worse on some frequencies than others. Sometimes a radio
> connected to an antenna on the top or top front of the cabin will be
> worse. More power in the transmitter will be worse. The SL-30 has
> more RF power than the '97 so could easily be more susceptible.
>
> In Bonanzas, with the batwing antenna right over the cabin, and all
> that glass, RF feedback is particularly troublesome.
>
> I once had a Plantronics mic with a small wart on the cable that had
> the problem. I wrapped the wart (which had all the semiconductors
> that rectify in it) with sticky copper tape and that fixed the
> problem.
>
> I've seen the problem a lot with Telex headsets. For awhile they
> were the worst. I thought they had solved this problem long ago. It
> is a design problem. A headset should be designed with margin
> and be bullet proof enough to work in any cockpit without feedback.
>
> The Bose I (and to a smaller extent the X models) have sensitivity to
> the frequencies used by ATC radar. When you are sitting on the
> ground near one of those rotating antennas, you can hear it zip by
> every time it points in your direction. But these headsets are OK at
> the usual
> VHF frequencies we transmit on, so there is no feedback with them.
>
> It is true that if your cabin speaker is on while you transmit (very
> unlikely)
> that you could get acoustic feedback and lowering the mic gain might
> fix it. But changing the gain will have little effect on RF feedback.
>
> Bill Hale BPPP instructor bppp.org K0QA
> Zillions of headset types flown in BPPP clinics
>
>
> On Apr 29, 4:23 pm, "Mike Noel" > wrote:
>> Adjusting the mic gain made no difference and so the headset went back to
>> Telex for warranty repair (36 month warranty on the Stratus 30 and 60 months
>> for the Stratus 30XT). I'll report back later on my warranty repair
>> experience with them.
>> It's a nice headset at a moderate price so I hope I can report back
>> favorably.
>>
>> --
>> Best Regards,
>> Mike.
>>
>> http://flickr.com/photos/mikenoel/"Mike Noel" > wrote in message
>>
>> ...
>>
>>> My Telex 30 headset and SL30 nav/com have developed a loud and annoying
>>> oscillation during xmit. The tone is both obvious in the headset
>>> side-tone
>>> and also is heard by other's listening on the frequency.
>>> I've tried two other headsets (a DRE ENR and a non-ANR headset) and both
>>> work fine with the SL30. My com2 is a King 97a and it works fine with all
>>> of my headsets, including the Telex.
>>> The problem seems to have developed in stages over the past several
>>> months.
>>> First I was noticing the Telex and SL30 would occasionally give my voice a
>>> hollow sound for the first few transmissions of the day, then sound fine.
>>> Finally last week the tower controller mentioned the squeal which I was
>>> also
>>> noticing. It tends to go away after a bit but it sounded odd for the
>>> entire
>>> flight.
>>> Has anyone experienced a similar problem? I'm hoping to try a few other
>>> brands of headsets this weekend to see if the headset is the likely
>>> culprit.
>>> Best Regards,
>>> Mike.
>>> http://flickr.com/photos/mikenoel/
>

I would get the same ASR sweep beep in my lightspeeds at an airport that
that the radar on the field.

--

Regards, Ross
C-172F 180HP
Sold :(
KSWI

[Mike Noel]

Telex (evidently now owned by Bosch) fixed the Stratus 30 under warranty and
it's working well. They replaced a circuit card and the mic. The service
people were friendly and the turn-around including shipment and repair took
2 weeks.

In the interim I purchased a Lightspeed 20 xlc so I could have ANR for 3
seats in the plane. The Lightspeed is nice, but I prefer the Telex (which I
had upgraded with 30xt cushions) since it puts less pressure on my head.
The adjustable clamping force cams are a nice feature on the Stratus line.

Can the Lightspeed's head-band be safely bent to reduce the clamping force?

--
Best Regards,
Mike.

http://flickr.com/photos/mikenoel/
"Mike Noel" > wrote in message
...
> My Telex 30 headset and SL30 nav/com have developed a loud and annoying
> oscillation during xmit. The tone is both obvious in the headset
> side-tone
> and also is heard by other's listening on the frequency.
>
> I've tried two other headsets (a DRE ENR and a non-ANR headset) and both
> work fine with the SL30. My com2 is a King 97a and it works fine with all
> of my headsets, including the Telex.
>
> The problem seems to have developed in stages over the past several
> months.
> First I was noticing the Telex and SL30 would occasionally give my voice a
> hollow sound for the first few transmissions of the day, then sound fine.
> Finally last week the tower controller mentioned the squeal which I was
> also
> noticing. It tends to go away after a bit but it sounded odd for the
> entire
> flight.
>
> Has anyone experienced a similar problem? I'm hoping to try a few other
> brands of headsets this weekend to see if the headset is the likely
> culprit.
>
> Best Regards,
> Mike.
>
> http://flickr.com/photos/mikenoel/
>
>

[Dennis[_7_]]

hello,



you tray to this http://www.cordless-phones.uk.com/headsets/





On May 17, 1:24 am, "Mike Noel" > wrote:
> Telex (evidently now owned by Bosch) fixed the Stratus 30 under warranty and
> it's working well. They replaced a circuit card and the mic. The service
> people were friendly and the turn-around including shipment and repair took
> 2 weeks.
>
> In the interim I purchased a Lightspeed 20 xlc so I could have ANR for 3
> seats in the plane. The Lightspeed is nice, but I prefer the Telex (which I
> had upgraded with 30xt cushions) since it puts less pressure on my head.
> The adjustable clamping force cams are a nice feature on the Stratus line.
>
> Can the Lightspeed's head-band be safely bent to reduce the clamping force?
>
> --
> Best Regards,
> Mike.
>
> http://flickr.com/photos/mikenoel/"Mike Noel" > wrote in message
>
> ...
>
> > My Telex 30 headset and SL30 nav/com have developed a loud and annoying
> > oscillation during xmit. The tone is both obvious in the headset
> > side-tone
> > and also is heard by other's listening on the frequency.
>
> > I've tried two otherheadsets(a DRE ENR and a non-ANR headset) and both
> > work fine with the SL30. My com2 is a King 97a and it works fine with all
> > of myheadsets, including the Telex.
>
> > The problem seems to have developed in stages over the past several
> > months.
> > First I was noticing the Telex and SL30 would occasionally give my voice a
> > hollow sound for the first few transmissions of the day, then sound fine.
> > Finally last week the tower controller mentioned the squeal which I was
> > also
> > noticing. It tends to go away after a bit but it sounded odd for the
> > entire
> > flight.
>
> > Has anyone experienced a similar problem? I'm hoping to try a few other
> > brands ofheadsetsthis weekend to see if the headset is the likely
> > culprit.
>
> > Best Regards,
> > Mike.
>
> >http://flickr.com/photos/mikenoel/