Don't point RPGs at US soldiers! [Archive]

Nuk

June 18th 04, 07:05 AM

On Fri, 18 Jun 2004 00:02:38 -0600, Scott Ferrin
> wrote:

>On 18 Jun 2004 05:32:41 GMT, (B2431) wrote:
>
>>>From: Andrew
>>>Date: 6/17/2004 8:00 PM Central Daylight Time
>>>Message-id: >
>>>
>>>http://w3.kill-9.com/rpg-man.mpg
>>
>>I like it, but how do I save it?
>>
>>Dan, U.S. Air Force, retired
>
>
>If you have the save option on your Quicktime viewer just hit the down
>arrow on the very right and save. If not you might have luck trying
>this: Go to your Windows Explorer and under Tools > Folder Options >
>View and enable the "Show hidden files and folders" option. Then look
>in Documents and Settings > The applicable user > Local Settings >
>Temporary Internet Files. Sort by date with latest on the top and it
>should be a .mov file up near the top. If you still have trouble feel
>free to email me and I'll set something up so you can download it.
>

http://www.southcom.com.au/~aztec/

Or get it here too...

Dav1936531

June 18th 04, 08:31 AM

>From: Andrew
>
>
>http://w3.kill-9.com/rpg-man.mpg

Looks like that guy gets one through the chest and a quick follow-up head shot.
Great shooting by whomever. But...I think a couple of rounds to his RPG
launcher are in order to deactivate it from being picked up and used by someone
else.

The speed of the sucessive shots leads me to believe that this guy was not the
victim of a US Marine sniper, since most of them are using bolt action rifles
from my understanding. The shots just seem to come too quickly to have cycled
the bolt that fast (could be wrong though).

Further, the sniper may have been able to lure the dead guy's compatriots out
into the street had he held off firing the follow up kill shot to the head.
Just wound the guy on the first shot and wait for his buddies to come out and
"rescue" him.......and then drill them all too. Make a pile of them in the
street......however, the insurgent fighters may be "on" to that tactic already.
Dave

Nuk

June 18th 04, 09:30 AM

On 18 Jun 2004 07:31:51 GMT, (Dav1936531) wrote:

>Looks like that guy gets one through the chest and a quick follow-up head shot.
>Great shooting by whomever. But...I think a couple of rounds to his RPG
>launcher are in order to deactivate it from being picked up and used by someone
>else.
>The speed of the sucessive shots leads me to believe that this guy was not the
>victim of a US Marine sniper, since most of them are using bolt action rifles
>from my understanding. The shots just seem to come too quickly to have cycled
>the bolt that fast (could be wrong though).

I'd say he was planning hit a squad of Marines, or a Humvee or APC or
similar, but they saw him first and he found himself staring down the
barrels of a few US Marines...

>Further, the sniper may have been able to lure the dead guy's compatriots out
>into the street had he held off firing the follow up kill shot to the head.
>Just wound the guy on the first shot and wait for his buddies to come out and
>"rescue" him.......and then drill them all too. Make a pile of them in the
>street......however, the insurgent fighters may be "on" to that tactic already.

I'm still trying to figure out why he was in the middle of a street,
no cover, no camo... stupid, stupid, stupid...

Dav1936531

June 18th 04, 09:59 AM

>From: Nuk
>
>
>I'd say he was planning hit a squad of Marines, or a Humvee or APC or
>similar, but they saw him first and he found himself staring down the
>barrels of a few US Marines...

Nah, you can see the bullets kick up clouds of dust in the street from both the
chest and head shots. Whomever got him plainly shot him from a roof top, i.e.,
it was probably a sniper watching over a patrol....not a patroller.

As I mentioned before, I think the Marine snipers are using bolt actions,
however, I have seen some pics of US Army snipers carrying tricked up M-14
sniper variants. I am thinking this guy was had by an Army sniper because of
the quick follow-up shot. Consequently, I also doubt this video is from the
Fallujah action, since it was the Marines laying siege in Fallujah.

>I'm still trying to figure out why he was in the middle of a street,
>no cover, no camo... stupid, stupid, stupid...

It's a "jihad" for Allah. Rationality plays little part.

One wonders just exactly what the insurgents even think they are trying to
accomplish. What will surely result if they gain supremacy is chaos, civil war,
and the weakening of Iraq making it a tempting invasion target for the likes of
Iran. So, if they think they are fighting for the good of Iraq, they are merely
deluding themselves.
Dave

Mortimer Schnerd, RN

June 18th 04, 12:13 PM

Dav1936531 wrote:
> It's a "jihad" for Allah. Rationality plays little part.
>

I've heard that before, but that doesn't explain why his buddies weren't
fighting over the opportunity to join him in Paradise. I am reminded of when
Arafat was holed up in his office whining about how he wanted to become a martyr
when all that was required was for him to step out into the hall brandishing a
pistol. These brave fellows sure talk the talk; I just don't see that many
walking the walk.

And as this courageous freedom fighter just demonstrated, the Law of Natural
Selection plays no favorites.

--
Mortimer Schnerd, RN

http://www.mortimerschnerd.com

Tamas Feher

June 18th 04, 12:55 PM

>Looks like that guy gets one through the chest and
>a quick follow-up head shot.
>...
>Further, the sniper may have been able to lure the dead guy's
>compatriots out into the street had he held off firing the follow
>up kill shot to the head.

Isn't it illegal to kill the wounded, according to the Geneva
Conventions?

Drewe Manton

June 18th 04, 01:00 PM

I'm not even convinced it was a sniper shot. . .looked like automatic
weapons fire to me. . repeated shooting and I picked out 2, maybe 3 tracer
rounds. Do we even know where it was taken (I don't speak the language of
the news reporter!).. might it have been Israel rather than Iraq?

--
Regards
Drewe
"Better the pride that resides
In a citizen of the world
Than the pride that divides
When a colourful rag is unfurled"

Drewe Manton

June 18th 04, 01:08 PM

"Tamas Feher" > wrote in news:caul4b$gt5$1
@proxy.interware.hu:

> Isn't it illegal to kill the wounded, according to the Geneva
> Conventions?
>

If they'd watched him for 20-30 seconds before slotting him then maybe
I'd agree. . that was a two second burst of gunfore (possibly from two
different directions looking at repeatedly at the video - the chest shot
seems to come from on high and the second burst from another direction
and more or less at the same level). So to accuse them of "killing the
wounded" is just being mischevious isn't it? Besides, after shot one he
sat on his arse and there was still an RPG at his side. So he was still
technically a combatant. If you're going to contend that that 2-3 seconds
between shot one and the others was enough to let the troops decide he
was wounded and no longer a threat I'd have to contend that you work in
slo-time, Matrix style and that he probably would have had time to whip
up a white flag and start waving it in your little compressed time
world. No? Don't be so ****ing specious then.

--
Regards
Drewe
"Better the pride that resides
In a citizen of the world
Than the pride that divides
When a colourful rag is unfurled"

Ragnar

June 18th 04, 01:16 PM

"Dav1936531" > wrote in message
...

> Further, the sniper may have been able to lure the dead guy's compatriots
out
> into the street had he held off firing the follow up kill shot to the
head.
> Just wound the guy on the first shot and wait for his buddies to come out
and
> "rescue" him.......and then drill them all too. Make a pile of them in the
> street......however, the insurgent fighters may be "on" to that tactic
already.
> Dave

I seriously doubt that the bad guys care enough about such things to even
bother "rescuing" one of their own.

jack

June 18th 04, 01:27 PM

Drewe Manton > wrote:
: I'm not even convinced it was a sniper shot. . .looked like automatic
: weapons fire to me. . repeated shooting and I picked out 2, maybe 3
: tracer rounds.

I totally concur with that. The tracer rounds were a dead (pun
intended) giveaway.

: Do we even know where it was taken (I don't speak the
: language of the news reporter!).. might it have been Israel rather
: than Iraq?

Don't know about the actual camera team, but the footage as seen in this
clip is from a TV channel here in Spain called "Tele Cinco." I oughta
know, because I watch it daily and was rather stunned by this clip when
I saw it for the first time the other day. I wonder if the American
media broadcast this in the states?

As for what the commentator is saying, he sort of got cut off in mid
sentence. He says: "The death live (as your seeing it) was transformed
there as usual what occurs daily. This occured in a suburb of Bhagdad."
Sorry about the translation, but there was no way to do it
word-for-word.

Later.

J.

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Scott Ferrin

June 18th 04, 01:49 PM

On 18 Jun 2004 12:08:16 GMT, Drewe Manton >
wrote:

>"Tamas Feher" > wrote in news:caul4b$gt5$1
:
>
>> Isn't it illegal to kill the wounded, according to the Geneva
>> Conventions?
>>
>
>If they'd watched him for 20-30 seconds before slotting him then maybe
>I'd agree. . that was a two second burst of gunfore (possibly from two
>different directions looking at repeatedly at the video - the chest shot
>seems to come from on high and the second burst from another direction
>and more or less at the same level). So to accuse them of "killing the
>wounded" is just being mischevious isn't it?

He's not known for his brainpower.

Jeb Hoge

June 18th 04, 02:25 PM

Nuk > wrote in message >...
> On Fri, 18 Jun 2004 01:00:48 +0000 (UTC), Andrew
> > wrote:
>
> >http://w3.kill-9.com/rpg-man.mpg
> >
>
> "Hey Abdul, take my RPG and go shoot those US troops over yonder..."
> "...but Ahmed, don't I need body armour or some cover to hide behind?"
> "don't be silly, you know the US can't shoot for ****!"

Holy crap. Interesting, BTW, to note how un-Hollywood his demise
is...no flying parts, no sprays of blood.

June 18th 04, 02:36 PM

"B2431" > wrote in message
...
> >From: Andrew
> >Date: 6/17/2004 8:00 PM Central Daylight Time
> >Message-id: >
> >
> >http://w3.kill-9.com/rpg-man.mpg
>
> I like it, but how do I save it?
>
> Dan, U.S. Air Force, retired
> Dan, if you are using Win XP and IE, simply go back to the post by ME,
right click on the link and save target as whatever and wherever you want.

T3

June 18th 04, 02:47 PM

"Dav1936531" > wrote in message
...
> >From: Nuk
> >
> >
> >I'd say he was planning hit a squad of Marines, or a Humvee or APC or
> >similar, but they saw him first and he found himself staring down the
> >barrels of a few US Marines...
>
> Nah, you can see the bullets kick up clouds of dust in the street from
both the
> chest and head shots. Whomever got him plainly shot him from a roof top,
i.e.,
> it was probably a sniper watching over a patrol....not a patroller.
>
> As I mentioned before, I think the Marine snipers are using bolt actions,
> however, I have seen some pics of US Army snipers carrying tricked up M-14
> sniper variants. I am thinking this guy was had by an Army sniper because
of
> the quick follow-up shot. Consequently, I also doubt this video is from
the
> Fallujah action, since it was the Marines laying siege in Fallujah.
>
> >I'm still trying to figure out why he was in the middle of a street,
> >no cover, no camo... stupid, stupid, stupid...
>
> It's a "jihad" for Allah. Rationality plays little part.
>
> One wonders just exactly what the insurgents even think they are trying to
> accomplish. What will surely result if they gain supremacy is chaos, civil
war,
> and the weakening of Iraq making it a tempting invasion target for the
likes of
> Iran. So, if they think they are fighting for the good of Iraq, they are
merely
> deluding themselves.
> Dave

I'm not so sure, it sounded and awful lot like a SAW. Counted nine or ten
shots fired, looks like the first couple severed his spine. The rest, chest
and head, Great shooting!!

T3

June 18th 04, 02:55 PM

"Drewe Manton" > wrote in message
. 4...
> I'm not even convinced it was a sniper shot. . .looked like automatic
> weapons fire to me. . repeated shooting and I picked out 2, maybe 3 tracer
> rounds. Do we even know where it was taken (I don't speak the language of
> the news reporter!).. might it have been Israel rather than Iraq?
>
> --
> Regards
> Drewe
> "Better the pride that resides
> In a citizen of the world
> Than the pride that divides
> When a colourful rag is unfurled"

No doubt about it, pretty sure it was a SAW. I've shot and heard enough of
'em to recognize it.

T3

btw-It was in Iraq

Kevin Brooks

June 18th 04, 03:41 PM

"Dav1936531" > wrote in message
...
> >From: Nuk
> >
> >
> >I'd say he was planning hit a squad of Marines, or a Humvee or APC or
> >similar, but they saw him first and he found himself staring down the
> >barrels of a few US Marines...
>
> Nah, you can see the bullets kick up clouds of dust in the street from
both the
> chest and head shots. Whomever got him plainly shot him from a roof top,
i.e.,
> it was probably a sniper watching over a patrol....not a patroller.

How many snipers do you know who use tracers? Smart money would instead be
on him being engaged by an overwatching element (when contact is expected,
bounding overwatch being the preferred maneuver scheme).

>
> As I mentioned before, I think the Marine snipers are using bolt actions,
> however, I have seen some pics of US Army snipers carrying tricked up M-14
> sniper variants. I am thinking this guy was had by an Army sniper because
of
> the quick follow-up shot. Consequently, I also doubt this video is from
the
> Fallujah action, since it was the Marines laying siege in Fallujah.

Most Army snipers use a Remington bolt action (M-24 IIRC) these days; your
"tricked up" M-14 (actually known as the M-21) has been in the decline (if
it is not completely replaced already) for years now.

Brooks

>
> >I'm still trying to figure out why he was in the middle of a street,
> >no cover, no camo... stupid, stupid, stupid...
>
> It's a "jihad" for Allah. Rationality plays little part.
>
> One wonders just exactly what the insurgents even think they are trying to
> accomplish. What will surely result if they gain supremacy is chaos, civil
war,
> and the weakening of Iraq making it a tempting invasion target for the
likes of
> Iran. So, if they think they are fighting for the good of Iraq, they are
merely
> deluding themselves.
> Dave

Kevin Brooks

June 18th 04, 03:43 PM

"T3" > wrote in message
om...
>
> "Dav1936531" > wrote in message
> ...
> > >From: Nuk
> > >
> > >
> > >I'd say he was planning hit a squad of Marines, or a Humvee or APC or
> > >similar, but they saw him first and he found himself staring down the
> > >barrels of a few US Marines...
> >
> > Nah, you can see the bullets kick up clouds of dust in the street from
> both the
> > chest and head shots. Whomever got him plainly shot him from a roof top,
> i.e.,
> > it was probably a sniper watching over a patrol....not a patroller.
> >
> > As I mentioned before, I think the Marine snipers are using bolt
actions,
> > however, I have seen some pics of US Army snipers carrying tricked up
M-14
> > sniper variants. I am thinking this guy was had by an Army sniper
because
> of
> > the quick follow-up shot. Consequently, I also doubt this video is from
> the
> > Fallujah action, since it was the Marines laying siege in Fallujah.
> >
> > >I'm still trying to figure out why he was in the middle of a street,
> > >no cover, no camo... stupid, stupid, stupid...
> >
> > It's a "jihad" for Allah. Rationality plays little part.
> >
> > One wonders just exactly what the insurgents even think they are trying
to
> > accomplish. What will surely result if they gain supremacy is chaos,
civil
> war,
> > and the weakening of Iraq making it a tempting invasion target for the
> likes of
> > Iran. So, if they think they are fighting for the good of Iraq, they are
> merely
> > deluding themselves.
> > Dave
>
>
> I'm not so sure, it sounded and awful lot like a SAW. Counted nine or ten
> shots fired, looks like the first couple severed his spine. The rest,
chest
> and head, Great shooting!!

I'd bet you are right about the weapon being used; SAW with standard
intermittent tracer load.

Brooks

>
> T3
>
>

Nuk

June 18th 04, 04:30 PM

On 18 Jun 2004 12:00:25 GMT, Drewe Manton >
wrote:

>I'm not even convinced it was a sniper shot. . .looked like automatic
>weapons fire to me. . repeated shooting and I picked out 2, maybe 3 tracer
>rounds. Do we even know where it was taken (I don't speak the language of
>the news reporter!).. might it have been Israel rather than Iraq?

Possibly a M249? with a 1 in 5 tracer round maybe?

I've also seen recently another video (do you think I can find it!) of
an Iraqi firing what looks like a 50 cal from the hip, he squeezes off
a burst, then ducks back out of the way when something nearly nails
him... you can see the impact/ricochet of the incoming round...

Dav1936531

June 18th 04, 06:48 PM

>From: Drewe Manton
>Date: 6/18/04 8:00 AM Eastern Daylight Time
>Message-id: >
>
>I'm not even convinced it was a sniper shot. . .looked like automatic
>weapons fire to me. . repeated shooting and I picked out 2, maybe 3 tracer
rounds. Do we even know where it was taken (I don't speak the language of the
news reporter!).. might it have been Israel rather than Iraq?
>Drewe

Yeah, I didn't see the tracer until I ran it through slo-mo style frame by
frame. And I didn't play it with my speakers turned on either, so I didn't hear
the sound of auto weapons fire.

Definately a SAW with the bullets exiting at wierd angles after hitting the
guy.
Dave
Dave

Dav1936531

June 18th 04, 06:51 PM

>From: "T3"
>Date: 6/18/04 9:55 AM Eastern Daylight Time
>Message-id: >
>
>No doubt about it, pretty sure it was a SAW. I've shot and heard enough of
>'em to recognize it.
>
>
>T3

I agree. Unfortunately, I watched the clip with no speakers turned on and
missed the tracer when I first saw the clip.
Dave

Dav1936531

June 18th 04, 06:58 PM

>From: "Kevin Brooks"
>
>
>How many snipers do you know who use tracers? Smart money would instead be on
him being engaged by an overwatching element (when contact is expected,
bounding overwatch being the preferred maneuver scheme).

Yeah, I missed the tracers and watched the clip without sound the first time.
It's a SAW.

>Most Army snipers use a Remington bolt action (M-24 IIRC) these days; your
"tricked up" M-14 (actually known as the M-21) has been in the decline (if it
is not completely replaced already) for years now.
>Brooks

Which doesn't explain the pics of Army snipers toting the M-14 variants I
mentioned coming across the Associated Press wire feed on Iraq that is
available here on AOL. There was one of a guy covering a field after a convoy
ambush just recently with just such a rifle.
Dave

It's Me Again

June 18th 04, 08:36 PM

"Ragnar" > wrote in message
...
>
> "Dav1936531" > wrote in message
> ...
>
>> Further, the sniper may have been able to lure the dead guy's compatriots
> out
>> into the street had he held off firing the follow up kill shot to the
> head.
>> Just wound the guy on the first shot and wait for his buddies to come out
> and
>> "rescue" him.......and then drill them all too. Make a pile of them in
>> the
>> street......however, the insurgent fighters may be "on" to that tactic
> already.
>> Dave
>
> I seriously doubt that the bad guys care enough about such things to even
> bother "rescuing" one of their own.
>
>
Someone has neglected to tell them the 17 female virgins they receive in
heaven have PMS for all eternity.

It's Me Again

June 18th 04, 08:40 PM

<snip>
>> Dave
>
>
> I'm not so sure, it sounded and awful lot like a SAW. Counted nine or ten
> shots fired, looks like the first couple severed his spine. The rest,
> chest
> and head, Great shooting!!
>
> T3
For those of you who are wondering what SAW is (I was), it's Squad Automatic
Weapon.

http://www.ndu.edu/nwc/nwcCLIPART/US_ARMY/Equipment/Weapons/SAW/army-saw.htm

Scott Ferrin

June 18th 04, 09:07 PM

On Fri, 18 Jun 2004 19:40:18 GMT, "It's Me Again" >
wrote:

><snip>
>>> Dave
>>
>>
>> I'm not so sure, it sounded and awful lot like a SAW. Counted nine or ten
>> shots fired, looks like the first couple severed his spine. The rest,
>> chest
>> and head, Great shooting!!
>>
>> T3
>For those of you who are wondering what SAW is (I was), it's Squad Automatic
>Weapon.
>
>http://www.ndu.edu/nwc/nwcCLIPART/US_ARMY/Equipment/Weapons/SAW/army-saw.htm
>

Anybody whose ever played Counterstrike knows what that baby is :-)
That and the Barrett Arms 0.50 cal sniper rifle. Nobody likes an AWP
Whore (sniper with the fifty).

Krztalizer

June 18th 04, 09:42 PM

>>Further, the sniper may have been able to lure the dead guy's
>>compatriots out into the street had he held off firing the follow
>>up kill shot to the head.
>
>Isn't it illegal to kill the wounded, according to the Geneva
>Conventions?

He remains a bullet magnet for as long as the RPG remains under his control.

June 18th 04, 11:13 PM

"Kevin Brooks" > wrote in message
...
>
> "T3" > wrote in message
> om...
> >
> > "Dav1936531" > wrote in message
> > ...
> > > >From: Nuk
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >I'd say he was planning hit a squad of Marines, or a Humvee or APC or
> > > >similar, but they saw him first and he found himself staring down the
> > > >barrels of a few US Marines...
> > >
> > > Nah, you can see the bullets kick up clouds of dust in the street from
> > both the
> > > chest and head shots. Whomever got him plainly shot him from a roof
top,
> > i.e.,
> > > it was probably a sniper watching over a patrol....not a patroller.
> > >
> > > As I mentioned before, I think the Marine snipers are using bolt
> actions,
> > > however, I have seen some pics of US Army snipers carrying tricked up
> M-14
> > > sniper variants. I am thinking this guy was had by an Army sniper
> because
> > of
> > > the quick follow-up shot. Consequently, I also doubt this video is
from
> > the
> > > Fallujah action, since it was the Marines laying siege in Fallujah.
> > >
> > > >I'm still trying to figure out why he was in the middle of a street,
> > > >no cover, no camo... stupid, stupid, stupid...
> > >
> > > It's a "jihad" for Allah. Rationality plays little part.
> > >
> > > One wonders just exactly what the insurgents even think they are
trying
> to
> > > accomplish. What will surely result if they gain supremacy is chaos,
> civil
> > war,
> > > and the weakening of Iraq making it a tempting invasion target for the
> > likes of
> > > Iran. So, if they think they are fighting for the good of Iraq, they
are
> > merely
> > > deluding themselves.
> > > Dave
> >
> >
> > I'm not so sure, it sounded and awful lot like a SAW. Counted nine or
ten
> > shots fired, looks like the first couple severed his spine. The rest,
> chest
> > and head, Great shooting!!
>
> I'd bet you are right about the weapon being used; SAW with standard
> intermittent tracer load.
>
> Brooks
>
> >
> >

That's how I figured it, except maybe what we're thinking were tracers were
actually ricochets off the road. But you know what, that is one dead M'fer
that our guys won't have to deal with again.....

T3

B2431

June 18th 04, 11:31 PM

>US soldiers!
>From: "Joe Blow"
>Date: 6/17/2004 8:19 PM Central Daylight Time
>Message-id: >
>
>I've been waiting for this one. Anyone know what is being said?
>
>
>"Andrew" > wrote in message
...
>> http://w3.kill-9.com/rpg-man.mpg

Strict translation is " Achmed really wanted those 72 virgins, didn't he? He's
in for a rough time, one of them is my ex-wife."

Dan, U.S. Air Force, retired

B2431

June 18th 04, 11:33 PM

>From: "T3"
>Date: 6/18/2004 8:36 AM Central Daylight Time
>Message-id: >
>
>
>"B2431" > wrote in message
...
>> >From: Andrew
>> >Date: 6/17/2004 8:00 PM Central Daylight Time
>> >Message-id: >
>> >
>> >http://w3.kill-9.com/rpg-man.mpg
>>
>> I like it, but how do I save it?
>>
>> Dan, U.S. Air Force, retired
>> Dan, if you are using Win XP and IE, simply go back to the post by ME,
>right click on the link and save target as whatever and wherever you want.
>
>T3

I tried to do that before I made my post. Thanks to all that helped. Someone
sent it to me.

Dan, U.S. Air Force, retired

B2431

June 18th 04, 11:42 PM

>From: (Jeb Hoge)

<snip>
>
>Holy crap. Interesting, BTW, to note how un-Hollywood his demise
>is...no flying parts, no sprays of blood.

You mean the same hollywierd where a bullet strike on a leaf emits sparks? Gee,
and I thought they lived for accuracy.

Dan, U.S. Air Force, retired

ian maclure

June 19th 04, 12:22 AM

On Fri, 18 Jun 2004 07:31:51 +0000, Dav1936531 wrote:

IBM

> The speed of the sucessive shots leads me to believe that this guy was not the
> victim of a US Marine sniper, since most of them are using bolt action rifles
> from my understanding. The shots just seem to come too quickly to have cycled
> the bolt that fast (could be wrong though).

It was something on auto. AW, SAW, or LMG.

IBM

__________________________________________________ _____________________________
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ian maclure

June 19th 04, 12:27 AM

On Fri, 18 Jun 2004 19:36:39 +0000, It's Me Again wrote:

[snips]

> Someone has neglected to tell them the 17 female virgins they receive in
> heaven have PMS for all eternity.

That's 72 not 17.
That's Virginians not virgins.
And PMS will be the least of the deceased's problems.

IBM

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Joe Blow

June 19th 04, 12:56 AM

>
> Strict translation is " Achmed really wanted those 72 virgins, didn't he?
He's
> in for a rough time, one of them is my ex-wife."
>
> Dan, U.S. Air Force, retired

Dan,

I hear the 72 have PMS for all eternity.

Joe Blow

June 19th 04, 01:02 AM

"Scott Ferrin" > wrote in message
...
> On Fri, 18 Jun 2004 19:40:18 GMT, "It's Me Again" >
> wrote:
>
> ><snip>
> >>> Dave
> >>
> >>
> >> I'm not so sure, it sounded and awful lot like a SAW. Counted nine or
ten
> >> shots fired, looks like the first couple severed his spine. The rest,
> >> chest
> >> and head, Great shooting!!
> >>
> >> T3
> >For those of you who are wondering what SAW is (I was), it's Squad
Automatic
> >Weapon.
> >
>
>http://www.ndu.edu/nwc/nwcCLIPART/US_ARMY/Equipment/Weapons/SAW/army-saw.ht
m
> >
>
>
>
> Anybody whose ever played Counterstrike knows what that baby is :-)
> That and the Barrett Arms 0.50 cal sniper rifle. Nobody likes an AWP
> Whore (sniper with the fifty).

I'm up here in the Great white north, we use the C9.
http://www.army.dnd.ca/lf/English/2_0_39.asp?uSubSection=39&uSection=2

I had totally forgotten what SAW meant.

Joe Blow

June 19th 04, 01:04 AM

:
>
> [snips]
>
> > Someone has neglected to tell them the 17 female virgins they receive in
> > heaven have PMS for all eternity.
>
> That's 72 not 17.
> That's Virginians not virgins.
> And PMS will be the least of the deceased's problems.
>
I can't imagine being around 72 women with PMS. One is hard enought.

Kevin Brooks

June 19th 04, 01:22 AM

"Dav1936531" > wrote in message
...
> >From: "Kevin Brooks"
> >
> >
> >How many snipers do you know who use tracers? Smart money would instead
be on
> him being engaged by an overwatching element (when contact is expected,
> bounding overwatch being the preferred maneuver scheme).
>
> Yeah, I missed the tracers and watched the clip without sound the first
time.
> It's a SAW.
>
> >Most Army snipers use a Remington bolt action (M-24 IIRC) these days;
your
> "tricked up" M-14 (actually known as the M-21) has been in the decline (if
it
> is not completely replaced already) for years now.
> >Brooks
>
> Which doesn't explain the pics of Army snipers toting the M-14 variants I
> mentioned coming across the Associated Press wire feed on Iraq that is
> available here on AOL. There was one of a guy covering a field after a
convoy
> ambush just recently with just such a rifle.

There was talk of providing the old M-21's down to the unit level for use by
"designated marksmen", IIRC, as they were replaced in the sniper role by the
M-24; I can remember a time when the standard weapons package for our
MSCA-CD (Military Support to Civil Authorities--Civil Disturbance) mission
included a couple of M-21's (along with a few 12 ga pump shotguns) in a
similar role. That may explain where you saw them--then again, are you sure
you were not seeing a SEAL or two (ISTR they sometimes carry the M-14 in
desert operations), and not Army folks?

Brooks

> Dave

June 19th 04, 01:32 AM

"Joe Blow" > wrote in message
...
>
> "Scott Ferrin" > wrote in message
> ...
> > On Fri, 18 Jun 2004 19:40:18 GMT, "It's Me Again" >
> > wrote:
> >
> > ><snip>
> > >>> Dave
> > >>
> > >>
> > >> I'm not so sure, it sounded and awful lot like a SAW. Counted nine or
> ten
> > >> shots fired, looks like the first couple severed his spine. The rest,
> > >> chest
> > >> and head, Great shooting!!
> > >>
> > >> T3
> > >For those of you who are wondering what SAW is (I was), it's Squad
> Automatic
> > >Weapon.
> > >
> >
>
>http://www.ndu.edu/nwc/nwcCLIPART/US_ARMY/Equipment/Weapons/SAW/army-saw.ht
> m
> > >
> >
> >
> >
> > Anybody whose ever played Counterstrike knows what that baby is :-)
> > That and the Barrett Arms 0.50 cal sniper rifle. Nobody likes an AWP
> > Whore (sniper with the fifty).
>
> I'm up here in the Great white north, we use the C9.
> http://www.army.dnd.ca/lf/English/2_0_39.asp?uSubSection=39&uSection=2
>
> I had totally forgotten what SAW meant.
>

One thing for sure it wasn't a .50, two rounds would've cut him into pieces,
seriously!!

T3

June 19th 04, 01:41 AM

"Joe Blow" > wrote in message
...
>
> "Scott Ferrin" > wrote in message
> ...
> > On Fri, 18 Jun 2004 19:40:18 GMT, "It's Me Again" >
> > wrote:
> >
> > ><snip>
> > >>> Dave
> > >>
> > >>
> > >> I'm not so sure, it sounded and awful lot like a SAW. Counted nine or
> ten
> > >> shots fired, looks like the first couple severed his spine. The rest,
> > >> chest
> > >> and head, Great shooting!!
> > >>
> > >> T3
> > >For those of you who are wondering what SAW is (I was), it's Squad
> Automatic
> > >Weapon.
> > >
> >
>
>http://www.ndu.edu/nwc/nwcCLIPART/US_ARMY/Equipment/Weapons/SAW/army-saw.ht
> m
> > >
> >
> >
> >
> > Anybody whose ever played Counterstrike knows what that baby is :-)
> > That and the Barrett Arms 0.50 cal sniper rifle. Nobody likes an AWP
> > Whore (sniper with the fifty).
>
> I'm up here in the Great white north, we use the C9.
> http://www.army.dnd.ca/lf/English/2_0_39.asp?uSubSection=39&uSection=2
>
> I had totally forgotten what SAW meant.
>

The(C9) A1 is an outstanding weapon, had the opportunity to heat up the
barrel a couple of times, very much like a SAW.....

After reviewing the clip a couple of times, I think the SAW was maybe
mounted on a Humvee or a track, either that or it was an outstanding piece
of marksmanship or both....

T3

June 19th 04, 01:42 AM

"B2431" > wrote in message
...
> >From: "T3"
> >Date: 6/18/2004 8:36 AM Central Daylight Time
> >Message-id: >
> >
> >
> >"B2431" > wrote in message
> ...
> >> >From: Andrew
> >> >Date: 6/17/2004 8:00 PM Central Daylight Time
> >> >Message-id: >
> >> >
> >> >http://w3.kill-9.com/rpg-man.mpg
> >>
> >> I like it, but how do I save it?
> >>
> >> Dan, U.S. Air Force, retired
> >> Dan, if you are using Win XP and IE, simply go back to the post by ME,
> >right click on the link and save target as whatever and wherever you
want.
> >
> >T3
>
> I tried to do that before I made my post. Thanks to all that helped.
Someone
> sent it to me.
>
> Dan, U.S. Air Force, retired
>

It's in the mail!!
T3

John Cook

June 19th 04, 01:55 AM

On 18 Jun 2004 12:00:25 GMT, Drewe Manton >
wrote:

>I'm not even convinced it was a sniper shot. . .looked like automatic
>weapons fire to me. . repeated shooting and I picked out 2, maybe 3 tracer
>rounds. Do we even know where it was taken (I don't speak the language of
>the news reporter!).. might it have been Israel rather than Iraq?

who's the guy who walks out from the back ground?, a 'contractor'?

John Cook

Any spelling mistakes/grammatic errors are there purely to annoy. All
opinions are mine, not TAFE's however much they beg me for them.

Email Address :-
Spam trap - please remove (trousers) to email me
Eurofighter Website :- http://www.eurofighter-typhoon.co.uk

June 19th 04, 02:32 AM

"John Cook" > wrote in message
...
> On 18 Jun 2004 12:00:25 GMT, Drewe Manton >
> wrote:
>
> >I'm not even convinced it was a sniper shot. . .looked like automatic
> >weapons fire to me. . repeated shooting and I picked out 2, maybe 3
tracer
> >rounds. Do we even know where it was taken (I don't speak the language of
> >the news reporter!).. might it have been Israel rather than Iraq?
>
> who's the guy who walks out from the back ground?, a 'contractor'?
>
> John Cook
>
> Any spelling mistakes/grammatic errors are there purely to annoy. All
> opinions are mine, not TAFE's however much they beg me for them.
>
> Email Address :-
> Spam trap - please remove (trousers) to email me
> Eurofighter Website :- http://www.eurofighter-typhoon.co.uk
>
Probably his buddy, as you noticed he didn't go "to" far out of the alley,
so much for brothers in arms, huh?
You gotta love these a**holes, heros all..........

T3

btw- If a SAW had just cut down my "buddy" in like three seconds, I'd be
real careful also, wouldn't you?
Actually, the guy was probably beatfeeting out of there and could've
qualified for the Olympic team....

tscottme

June 19th 04, 03:16 AM

Joe Blow > wrote in message
.. .
>
>
> >
> > Strict translation is " Achmed really wanted those 72 virgins,
didn't he?
> He's
> > in for a rough time, one of them is my ex-wife."
> >
> > Dan, U.S. Air Force, retired
>
> Dan,
>
> I hear the 72 have PMS for all eternity.
>

I hear the 72 virgins are all named Ahmed and Muhammad. No wonder the
region is full of dysfunctional phucks, the only sex they get is from
their uncle when they are 9 years old.

--
Scott
--------
"If after four years of careful planning, al Qaedists hit the Olympics
in August, the terrorists know better than we do that most Europeans
will do nothing - but quickly point to the U.S. and scream "Iraq!" And
they know that the upscale crowds in Athens are far more likely to boo a
democratic America than they are a fascist Syria or theocratic Iran.
Just watch." Victor Davis Hanson

tscottme

June 19th 04, 03:21 AM

Nuk > wrote in message
...

>
> I'm still trying to figure out why he was in the middle of a street,
> no cover, no camo... stupid, stupid, stupid...
>

Have you seen where they live? They sit on more wealth than anyone can
imagine and their civilization makes Africa look prosperous. They
aren't filthy and backward because of a couple of unlucky breaks. They
have worked for centuries to remain backward and filthy and it couldn't
happen to nicer people.

--
Scott
--------
"If after four years of careful planning, al Qaedists hit the Olympics
in August, the terrorists know better than we do that most Europeans
will do nothing - but quickly point to the U.S. and scream "Iraq!" And
they know that the upscale crowds in Athens are far more likely to boo a
democratic America than they are a fascist Syria or theocratic Iran.
Just watch." Victor Davis Hanson

tscottme

June 19th 04, 03:40 AM

Dav1936531 > wrote in message
...

>
> One wonders just exactly what the insurgents even think they are
trying to
> accomplish. What will surely result if they gain supremacy is chaos,
civil war,
> and the weakening of Iraq making it a tempting invasion target for the
likes of
> Iran. So, if they think they are fighting for the good of Iraq, they
are merely
> deluding themselves.
> Dave

Under Islam there is no way to know if you will make it to Allah's
Brothel, Bar & Grill except by dying in action against the infidel. So
I say we start making a few million of them certain. The detainees in
Gitmo would be a good place to start, they aren't doing much any way.

Why bother searching for the masterminds of one cell or another when we
already have the coordinates for Riyadh and Damascus. Make stopping the
"radical" Islamists the only insurance the Saudis and Assad have of
seeing another sunrise.

It's not racists to deport every illegal alien and it's not racist to
kill anyone infiltrating our borders. Nobody has a right to be in this
country but citizens and invited guests. Let the radicals live in
Europe. Maybe when Europe gets tired of the Dhimmitude they will even
fight back, rather than just arrest the radicals after each car bomb.

We could end this war by the end of the week, if we had the will and the
leadership. As long as we allow the indigenous populations to conclude
it's more dangerous to decline the invitation of the Islamists than
raise a hand against the US, this cancer will spread. We can be far
more deadly than the Islamists ever dreamed of we just won't pull the
trigger and do it. It seems very much like 1930s Europe. We have the
Mien Kampf in the fatwas and the Koran, we have identified the Nazis
named Wahhabi and Salafi, as always we have the Appeasement
Establishment, we even have the French as a thorn in our side.

--
Scott
--------
"If after four years of careful planning, al Qaedists hit the Olympics
in August, the terrorists know better than we do that most Europeans
will do nothing - but quickly point to the U.S. and scream "Iraq!" And
they know that the upscale crowds in Athens are far more likely to boo a
democratic America than they are a fascist Syria or theocratic Iran.
Just watch." Victor Davis Hanson

Regnirps

June 19th 04, 07:04 AM

(Dav1936531) wrote:

>Which doesn't explain the pics of Army snipers toting the M-14 variants I
>mentioned coming across the Associated Press wire feed on Iraq that is
>available here on AOL. There was one of a guy covering a field after a convoy
>ambush just recently with just such a rifle.

It's a favorite for some all right. Too bad Clinton gave away to Bosnia and
sold to Taiwan for $56 each, 125,000 M14s. After all, he cut the size of the
military so drastically, who would need them? Next thing you know we are in a
dessert war and need that extra thousand foot-pounds at 800 yards. They like to
buck but you can learn to hold them down for a fast follow-up. (Nobody uses
full auto except a kid I saw in Burma who carried it with a rope sling over his
head and shoulders. He ripped em off into the trees for the news cameras.)

-- Charlie Springer

Regnirps

June 19th 04, 07:27 AM

"It's Me Again" wrote:

>For those of you who are wondering what SAW is (I was), it's Squad Automatic
>Weapon.

For those who remember "Combat", the SAW man is the modern equivalent of Kirby
and his BAR.

What was the WWII TV show that competed with Combat?

-- Charlie Springer

John Keeney

June 19th 04, 07:46 AM

"Dav1936531" > wrote in message
...
> >From: Andrew
> >
> >
> >http://w3.kill-9.com/rpg-man.mpg
>
> Looks like that guy gets one through the chest and a quick follow-up head
shot.
> Great shooting by whomever. But...I think a couple of rounds to his RPG
> launcher are in order to deactivate it from being picked up and used by
someone
> else.
>
> The speed of the sucessive shots leads me to believe that this guy was not
the
> victim of a US Marine sniper, since most of them are using bolt action
rifles
> from my understanding. The shots just seem to come too quickly to have
cycled
> the bolt that fast (could be wrong though).

Clearly a weapon on full auto.
I suspect a SAW: not enough damage for a heavier caliber and more
rounds down range for "burst" mode on a M-16/M-4.

> Further, the sniper may have been able to lure the dead guy's compatriots
out
> into the street had he held off firing the follow up kill shot to the
head.

The head just happened to be in the dispersal pattern.

> Just wound the guy on the first shot and wait for his buddies to come out
and
> "rescue" him.......and then drill them all too. Make a pile of them in the
> street......however, the insurgent fighters may be "on" to that tactic
already.

John Keeney

June 19th 04, 08:00 AM

"Kevin Brooks" > wrote in message
...
>
> Most Army snipers use a Remington bolt action (M-24 IIRC) these days; your
> "tricked up" M-14 (actually known as the M-21) has been in the decline (if
> it is not completely replaced already) for years now.

Marksmen (Sniper Light) in Iraq are still carrying M-14s (I can't get used
to
calling them anything else). Lucky guys get that and the M-16 / M-4.

[email protected]

June 19th 04, 08:29 AM

Regnirps wrote:
>
> "It's Me Again" wrote:
>
> >For those of you who are wondering what SAW is (I was), it's Squad Automatic
> >Weapon.
>
> For those who remember "Combat", the SAW man is the modern equivalent of Kirby
> and his BAR.
>
> What was the WWII TV show that competed with Combat?
>
> -- Charlie Springer

"The Gallant Men"

jack

June 19th 04, 10:15 AM

Regnirps > wrote:
: "It's Me Again" wrote:
:
:: For those of you who are wondering what SAW is (I was), it's Squad
:: Automatic Weapon.
:
: For those who remember "Combat", the SAW man is the modern equivalent
: of Kirby and his BAR.

Oh, the memories! I used to go nuts when Kirby would let loose with his
BAR...what a distinctive sound it made. I remember in the 70's (74?)
when the SLA (Symbionse Liberation Army) kidnapped Patty Hearst and
later (a few months?) there was a shootout between the SLA and the
(can't remember if it was SF or LA) police. This was broadcast on the
news and sure as **** you could hear the thud-thud-thud of the BAR going
off in the background (guess someone in the SLA liked that particular
weapon). I still remember that day, just like I remember good ol'
"Combat" (wish I could remember things that happened last week, however
;-( ).

:
: What was the WWII TV show that competed with Combat?

12 O'Clock High?

J.
--
--------
The end to "Personal Computing" as we know it is just around the corner.
TCPA will take away ALL rights from you, the consumer. Learn more
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Mortimer Schnerd, RN

June 19th 04, 12:04 PM

Regnirps wrote:
> "It's Me Again" wrote:
>
>> For those of you who are wondering what SAW is (I was), it's Squad Automatic
>> Weapon.
>
> For those who remember "Combat", the SAW man is the modern equivalent of Kirby
> and his BAR.
>
> What was the WWII TV show that competed with Combat?

I don't remember another ground combat show at that same time, but it seems like
"12 O'Clock High" was on with Paul Burke as the CO. Also "McHale's Navy... but
I don't think that's the one you mean.

--
Mortimer Schnerd, RN

http://www.mortimerschnerd.com

David Wallace

June 19th 04, 12:55 PM

> Looks like that guy gets one through the chest and a quick
> follow-up head shot.

Frame by frame there's one (tracer, pretty large calibre) round from the
front that exits in the middle of his lower back, he falls over, gets a
rifle bullet through the head from the same direction as the first shot
and and finally a tracer round through the chest which comes from the
left side and that knocks him completely down.

The bullet tracks are all quite clear on frame-by-frame.

Dave.

Peter Kemp

June 19th 04, 03:05 PM

On Fri, 18 Jun 2004 21:40:04 -0500, "tscottme" >
wrote:

>Under Islam there is no way to know if you will make it to Allah's
>Brothel, Bar & Grill except by dying in action against the infidel.

So it's exactly the same as Protestant Christianity then in that you
can't tell until you're dead?

> So
>I say we start making a few million of them certain. The detainees in
>Gitmo would be a good place to start, they aren't doing much any way.

True - after all why go to the expense of trials or evidence - after
all they must be guilty or they wouldn't be there, despite all those
released as being harmless (although at least one released *was* a bad
guy)

>It's not racists to deport every illegal alien and it's not racist to
>kill anyone infiltrating our borders.

But who will mow your lawns, bus your tables and so on?

>Nobody has a right to be in this
>country but citizens and invited guests. Let the radicals live in
>Europe. Maybe when Europe gets tired of the Dhimmitude they will even
>fight back, rather than just arrest the radicals after each car bomb.

Most of the car bombs in Europe are domestic (PIRA/CIRA/ETA), but
don't let facts get in the way of a good rant.

>We could end this war by the end of the week, if we had the will and the
>leadership. As long as we allow the indigenous populations to conclude
>it's more dangerous to decline the invitation of the Islamists than
>raise a hand against the US, this cancer will spread. We can be far
>more deadly than the Islamists ever dreamed of we just won't pull the
>trigger and do it. It seems very much like 1930s Europe. We have the
>Mien Kampf in the fatwas and the Koran, we have identified the Nazis
>named Wahhabi and Salafi, as always we have the Appeasement
>Establishment, we even have the French as a thorn in our side.

So, to be clear, your basic plan is to threaten to destroy cities
considered holy by over 1.3 Billion people, including over 6 million
US citizens (according to the State Department)?

Even if only 1 million of those in the US are capable of starting an
uprising here using their 2nd Amendment legal semi-auto AR-15 rifles,
can you guess the death toll when they snap? Or would you open up
Manzana again and intern them for being of the wrong religion?

Peter Kemp

Peter Kemp

June 19th 04, 03:09 PM

On 19 Jun 2004 06:04:01 GMT, (Regnirps) wrote:

(Dav1936531) wrote:
>
>>Which doesn't explain the pics of Army snipers toting the M-14 variants I
>>mentioned coming across the Associated Press wire feed on Iraq that is
>>available here on AOL. There was one of a guy covering a field after a convoy
>>ambush just recently with just such a rifle.
>
>It's a favorite for some all right. Too bad Clinton gave away to Bosnia and
>sold to Taiwan for $56 each, 125,000 M14s. After all, he cut the size of the
>military so drastically, who would need them?

Well no, they were already surplus after Bush 41's cuts (which were
larger than Clinton's), and most were darn near worn out after 30
years use - check out how much the Phillipinos had to pay to get
theirs up to scratch.

Peter Kemp

Kevin Brooks

June 19th 04, 03:49 PM

"Peter Kemp" > wrote in message
...
> On 19 Jun 2004 06:04:01 GMT, (Regnirps) wrote:
>
> (Dav1936531) wrote:
> >
> >>Which doesn't explain the pics of Army snipers toting the M-14 variants
I
> >>mentioned coming across the Associated Press wire feed on Iraq that is
> >>available here on AOL. There was one of a guy covering a field after a
convoy
> >>ambush just recently with just such a rifle.
> >
> >It's a favorite for some all right. Too bad Clinton gave away to Bosnia
and
> >sold to Taiwan for $56 each, 125,000 M14s. After all, he cut the size of
the
> >military so drastically, who would need them?
>
> Well no, they were already surplus after Bush 41's cuts (which were
> larger than Clinton's), and most were darn near worn out after 30
> years use - check out how much the Phillipinos had to pay to get
> theirs up to scratch.

Can you show what major use of the M-14 went on for thirty years in the US
military? The vast majority of M-14's have spent the greatest part of their
lives in long-term storage, and the weapon had a very short service life as
the primary weapon for troops. Some were rebuilt as M-21's, some have been
used by various SOF elements, and IIRC the USN has used some in the
shipboard defense role. But most have languished in cosmoline (other than
the relative few issued to support military schools, such as West Point,
VMI, the Citadel, etc.; and based upon personal experience with a few of
those, I can vouch for the fact that those examples are *very* well
maintained--doing a week's barracks confinement for "RoR" (rust-on-rifle)
was never *my* idea of a fun time during that period of my life... :-)

Brooks

>
> Peter Kemp

Ian MacLure

June 19th 04, 04:00 PM

"T3" > wrote in
om:

[snip]

>> >rounds. Do we even know where it was taken (I don't speak the
>> >language of the news reporter!).. might it have been Israel rather
>> >than Iraq?

Language was Spanish I think.

>> who's the guy who walks out from the back ground?, a 'contractor'?

Might be a journalist.

Anybody know if the shootee had popped off a round and was
maybe awaiting reload when he got the "Come To Jesus".

[snip]

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Peter Kemp

June 19th 04, 06:24 PM

On Sat, 19 Jun 2004 10:49:15 -0400, "Kevin Brooks"
> wrote:

>Can you show what major use of the M-14 went on for thirty years in the US
>military? The vast majority of M-14's have spent the greatest part of their
>lives in long-term storage, and the weapon had a very short service life as
>the primary weapon for troops.

My Bad, I thought the M-14 was still a primary weapon for large parts
of the US Army into the 1980's for NATO compatibility reasons. I was
wrong.
Granted the US Navy had them longer, but the numbers are rather
smaller and corrosion aside they're probably in better shape than the
US Army versions.

Peter Kemp

B2431

June 19th 04, 08:51 PM

>From: "Mortimer Schnerd, RN"
>Date: 6/19/2004 6:04 AM Central Daylight Time
>Message-id: >
>
>Regnirps wrote:
>> "It's Me Again" wrote:
>>
>>> For those of you who are wondering what SAW is (I was), it's Squad
>Automatic
>>> Weapon.
>>
>> For those who remember "Combat", the SAW man is the modern equivalent of
>Kirby
>> and his BAR.
>>
>> What was the WWII TV show that competed with Combat?
>
>
>I don't remember another ground combat show at that same time, but it seems
>like
>"12 O'Clock High" was on with Paul Burke as the CO. Also "McHale's Navy...
>but
>I don't think that's the one you mean.

>--
>Mortimer Schnerd, RN
>
>
There was another one that came out during Combat's second season. The only
thing I remember about it was the parachute flare during the opening credits.

There was also a female version of Mchale's Navy called "Broadsides."

Dan, U.S. Air Force, retired

George Shirley

June 20th 04, 02:10 AM

B2431 wrote:

>>From: "Mortimer Schnerd, RN"
>>Date: 6/19/2004 6:04 AM Central Daylight Time
>>Message-id: >
>>
>>Regnirps wrote:
>>
>>>"It's Me Again" wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>>For those of you who are wondering what SAW is (I was), it's Squad
>>
>>Automatic
>>
>>>>Weapon.
>>>
>>>For those who remember "Combat", the SAW man is the modern equivalent of
>>
>>Kirby
>>
>>>and his BAR.
>>>
>>>What was the WWII TV show that competed with Combat?
>>
>>
>>I don't remember another ground combat show at that same time, but it seems
>>like
>>"12 O'Clock High" was on with Paul Burke as the CO. Also "McHale's Navy...
>>but
>>I don't think that's the one you mean.
>
>
>>--
>>Mortimer Schnerd, RN
>>
>>
>
> There was another one that came out during Combat's second season. The only
> thing I remember about it was the parachute flare during the opening credits.
>
> There was also a female version of Mchale's Navy called "Broadsides."
>
> Dan, U.S. Air Force, retired
Earlier than those was "Rat Patrol" taking place in the Western Desert
during the African campaigns. Wild and wooly shoot-em-up in jeeps with
fifties mounted.

George

Krztalizer

June 20th 04, 02:58 AM

>
>Earlier than those was "Rat Patrol" taking place in the Western Desert
>during the African campaigns. Wild and wooly shoot-em-up in jeeps with
>fifties mounted.
>

Clinch that cee-gar between your teeth and charge the 10 enemy armored vehicles
that look remarkably like the same 10 armored that guarded similar trucks
(eventually passed down to Hooogan's Heroes, I think) you blew up last week.
Curiously, Erwin Rommel is a late-20s dashing evilguy Victor Newman, with
apparently nothing better to do than run around the desert losing two battles
per week to a small roving band of ninjas in Land Rovers. "Rat Patrol",
Hogan's nitwits, 12 O'clock High, McHale's Navy, and a few others (Gilligan,
anyone?) were my primary after-school diversions as a youngster. I grew up
thinking all ship Captains were idiots (unless they drove a PT-boat); all
Majors had combat fatigue; our guns never ran out but apparently a lot of our
bombs were duds; a Corsair could beat anything in the sky (as long as it was
maintained by the worst Sergeant ever busted back to Private); most blustery
Colonels ultimately withdraw from conflict (beaten, invariably, by a crafter,
young Major); RAF planes explode - Japanese planes fall in flames - German
planes that fall in combat have an insane Nazi pilot guiding it down - all
heavily damaged US planes make it back to base; and most German soldiers wore
their Knights Cross with Oak Leaves, Swords, Diamonds and Shovels proudly at
their necks. Its the closest thing to a military education my family could
afford.

v/r
Gordon
PS, Shipmates, come to the USS KIRK reunion next weekend, San Diego.Muster on
the bow of the USS Midway, our old "high value unit". Good weather promised.
<====(A+C====>
USN SAR

An LZ is a place you want to land, not stay.

Dav1936531

June 20th 04, 06:19 AM

>From: "Kevin Brooks"
>Date: 6/18/04 8:22 PM Eastern Daylight Time
>Message-id: >
>
>There was talk of providing the old M-21's down to the unit level for use by
"designated marksmen", IIRC, as they were replaced in the sniper role by the
M-24; I can remember a time when the standard weapons package for our MSCA-CD
(Military Support to Civil Authorities--Civil Disturbance) mission included a
couple of M-21's (along with a few 12 ga pump shotguns) in a similar role. That
may explain where you saw them--then again, are you sure you were not seeing a
SEAL or two (ISTR they sometimes carry the M-14 in desert operations), and not
Army folks?
>Brooks

The guy in the pic was definitely Army. It was one of a series of pics showing
an Army unit's response to a convoy ambush. The guy in possesion was prone on
the side of a ditch covering any enemy advance from a field next to the road
where the convoy was ambushed. Couldn't tell you if the rifle was an M-14,
M-21, or M-24 though as I am not that familiar with the differences, but it had
that basic design of the M-14 (box mag semi-auto) and was equiped with a
telescopic sight and bipod.
Dave

B2431

June 20th 04, 06:41 AM

>From: (Krztalizer)
>Date: 6/19/2004 8:58 PM Central
>
>
<snip>

and most German soldiers
>wore
>their Knights Cross with Oak Leaves, Swords, Diamonds and Shovels proudly at
>their necks. Its the closest thing to a military education my family could
>afford.
>
>v/r
>Gordon
>

And all German interrogators said "ve haff veys."

Dan, U.S. Air Force, retired

Pete

June 20th 04, 06:45 AM

"B2431" > wrote
>
> And all German interrogators said "ve haff veys."

The monacle! Don't forget the monacle!

Pete

Kevin Brooks

June 20th 04, 07:05 AM

"Dav1936531" > wrote in message
...
> >From: "Kevin Brooks"
> >Date: 6/18/04 8:22 PM Eastern Daylight Time
> >Message-id: >
> >
> >There was talk of providing the old M-21's down to the unit level for use
by
> "designated marksmen", IIRC, as they were replaced in the sniper role by
the
> M-24; I can remember a time when the standard weapons package for our
MSCA-CD
> (Military Support to Civil Authorities--Civil Disturbance) mission
included a
> couple of M-21's (along with a few 12 ga pump shotguns) in a similar role.
That
> may explain where you saw them--then again, are you sure you were not
seeing a
> SEAL or two (ISTR they sometimes carry the M-14 in desert operations), and
not
> Army folks?
> >Brooks
>
> The guy in the pic was definitely Army. It was one of a series of pics
showing
> an Army unit's response to a convoy ambush. The guy in possesion was prone
on
> the side of a ditch covering any enemy advance from a field next to the
road
> where the convoy was ambushed. Couldn't tell you if the rifle was an M-14,
> M-21, or M-24 though as I am not that familiar with the differences, but
it had
> that basic design of the M-14 (box mag semi-auto) and was equiped with a
> telescopic sight and bipod.

Up until you mentioned the bipod, you had me thinking M-21. But I don't
recall seeing any bipods being used with M-21's (and I seriously doubt any
of the ones that were at one *distant* time available for M-14's are still
around). I guess it could be an M-21 with a bipod, but I have never seen one
so equipped (note that the M-24 bolt action replacment does have a bipod
included in the kit). OTOH, are you sure you were maybe not gettting a
squirrely view of a M-249 (which does indeed have a bipod) with a 30-round
magazine in place of the usual drum mag? I am having a problem getting
around the whole sniper-with-M21 thing; I had a sniper-type attend a school
with me way back in 1995-96, and I can rememeber his telling me they had
already replaced the M-21 with the M-24 in his ARNG light infantry battalion
(and it was not an "enhanced brigade" unit, either, so their priority of
fill would have been about the same as the rest of the Guard units).

Brooks

> Dave

Regnirps

June 20th 04, 09:18 AM

(David Wallace) wrote:

>Frame by frame there's one (tracer, pretty large calibre) round from the
>front that exits in the middle of his lower back, he falls over, gets a
>rifle bullet through the head from the same direction as the first shot
>and and finally a tracer round through the chest which comes from the
>left side and that knocks him completely down.

I see first a light cloud hidden by his head and upper body that looks like a
hit on the RPG or hands/arms. Then a tracer strikes the ground. The camera
timing misses the "trace" and a light trail gives the impression it exits the
lower back and RPG Man has started to collapse by the next frame. A shot hits
the pavement to the right, then the head shot, then another strike on the
pavement. It looks like all three come from the same direction. The tracer
seems to be from a different direction and there is another pavement strike in
the same frame in a line between the camera and RPG Man's arm. I can't draw a
line to the earlier pavement hits from the incoming tracer. It sure looks like
two shooters. The echoes make the sound unreliable.

-- Charlie Springer

Dav1936531

June 20th 04, 07:57 PM

>From: "Kevin Brooks"
>
>
>Up until you mentioned the bipod, you had me thinking M-21. But I don't recall
seeing any bipods being used with M-21's (and I seriously doubt any of the ones
that were at one *distant* time available for M-14's are still around). I guess
it could be an M-21 with a bipod, but I have never seen one so equipped (note
that the M-24 bolt action replacment does have a bipod included in the kit).
OTOH, are you sure you were maybe not gettting a squirrely view of a M-249
(which does indeed have a bipod) with a 30-round magazine in place of the usual
drum mag? I am having a problem getting around the whole sniper-with-M21 thing;
I had a sniper-type attend a school with me way back in 1995-96, and I can
rememeber his telling me they had already replaced the M-21 with the M-24 in
his ARNG light infantry battalion (and it was not an "enhanced brigade" unit,
either, so their priority of fill would have been about the same as the rest of
the Guard units).
>Brooks

The pic was on the AP wire feed from Iraq here on AOL. Unfortunately, the
articles and pics expire after a given period of time and disappear from the
feed so I cannot now call the picture back up and rellok at it.

The guy definitely had some variant of the M-14. I have wanted one of these for
a long time and recognize it. It was not a bolt action. It was not an M-249.

I could have incorrectly recalled that his rifle was equiped with a bipod
though. But it certainly was some type of the basic M-14 and had a telescope,
and I seem to recall a bipod.....but I saw the pic probably a month and a half
or so ago, and my memory isn't what it used to be.
Dave

B2431

June 20th 04, 09:39 PM

>From: "Pete"
>Date: 6/20/2004 12:45 AM Central Daylight Time
>Message-id: >
>
>
>"B2431" > wrote
>>
>> And all German interrogators said "ve haff veys."
>
>The monacle! Don't forget the monacle!
>
>Pete

"For you ze vor iz ovah."

Then again Rat Patrol's bad guy was always Lt. Dietrich played by Hans
Gudegast.

Dan, U.S. Air Force, retired

Stephen Harding

June 21st 04, 12:59 AM

Mortimer Schnerd, RN wrote:

> Regnirps wrote:
>
>>"It's Me Again" wrote:
>>
>>>For those of you who are wondering what SAW is (I was), it's Squad Automatic
>>>Weapon.
>>
>>For those who remember "Combat", the SAW man is the modern equivalent of Kirby
>>and his BAR.
>>
>>What was the WWII TV show that competed with Combat?
>
> I don't remember another ground combat show at that same time, but it seems like
> "12 O'Clock High" was on with Paul Burke as the CO. Also "McHale's Navy... but
> I don't think that's the one you mean.

"The Gallant Men".

SMH

Steve Hix

June 21st 04, 01:24 AM

In article >,
"Mortimer Schnerd, RN" > wrote:

> Regnirps wrote:
> > "It's Me Again" wrote:
> >
> >> For those of you who are wondering what SAW is (I was), it's Squad
> >> Automatic
> >> Weapon.
> >
> > For those who remember "Combat", the SAW man is the modern equivalent of
> > Kirby
> > and his BAR.
> >
> > What was the WWII TV show that competed with Combat?

"The Gallant Men"

Steve Hix

June 21st 04, 01:28 AM

In article >,
Uebermensch > wrote:

> Peter Kemp wrote:
>
> >So it's exactly the same as Protestant Christianity then in that you
> >can't tell until you're dead?
>
> That's a good reason to say like Simon de Montfort: kill them all, and if any
> of
> them is good God will find him.
>
> >> SoI say we start making a few million of them certain. The detainees in
> >>Gitmo would be a good place to start, they aren't doing much any way.
>
> >True - after all why go to the expense of trials or evidence - after
> >all they must be guilty or they wouldn't be there, despite all those
> >released as being harmless (although at least one released *was* a bad guy)
>
> That's good reason to kill them all first.
> Very low rate of recidivism.

Worked very well against the Nazis, didn't it Slick?

Ian MacLure

June 21st 04, 04:24 AM

(B2431) wrote in news:20040620163907.11381.00000188@mb-
m23.aol.com:

[snip]

> "For you ze vor iz ovah."
>
> Then again Rat Patrol's bad guy was always Lt. Dietrich played by Hans
> Gudegast.

Ya gotta wonder who in the Afrika Korps chain of command Leutnant
Dietrich had cheesed off.

IBM

__________________________________________________ _____________________________
Posted Via Uncensored-News.Com - Accounts Starting At $6.95 - http://www.uncensored-news.com
<><><><><><><> The Worlds Uncensored News Source <><><><><><><><>

John Keeney

June 21st 04, 08:00 AM

"Dav1936531" > wrote in message
...
> >From: "Kevin Brooks"
> >
> >
> >Up until you mentioned the bipod, you had me thinking M-21. But I don't
recall
> seeing any bipods being used with M-21's (and I seriously doubt any of the
ones
> that were at one *distant* time available for M-14's are still around). I
guess
> it could be an M-21 with a bipod, but I have never seen one so equipped
(note
> that the M-24 bolt action replacment does have a bipod included in the
kit).
> OTOH, are you sure you were maybe not gettting a squirrely view of a M-249
> (which does indeed have a bipod) with a 30-round magazine in place of the
usual
> drum mag? I am having a problem getting around the whole sniper-with-M21
thing;
> I had a sniper-type attend a school with me way back in 1995-96, and I can
> rememeber his telling me they had already replaced the M-21 with the M-24
in
> his ARNG light infantry battalion (and it was not an "enhanced brigade"
unit,
> either, so their priority of fill would have been about the same as the
rest of
> the Guard units).
> >Brooks
>
> The pic was on the AP wire feed from Iraq here on AOL. Unfortunately, the
> articles and pics expire after a given period of time and disappear from
the
> feed so I cannot now call the picture back up and rellok at it.
>
> The guy definitely had some variant of the M-14. I have wanted one of
these for
> a long time and recognize it. It was not a bolt action. It was not an
M-249.
>
> I could have incorrectly recalled that his rifle was equiped with a bipod
> though. But it certainly was some type of the basic M-14 and had a
telescope,
> and I seem to recall a bipod.....but I saw the pic probably a month and a
half
> or so ago, and my memory isn't what it used to be.
> Dave

I know I posted on this before, but I'll repeat incase it got sucked
up in to the great bit bucket in the sky. Yes, at the very minimum
I can guaranty that one NYAG unit currently attached to the 1st ID
in Iraq have M-14s as issued equipment. They are issued to unit
"Marksmen" in addition to which ever flavor of M-16 / M-4 that
infantryman is issued. Marksmen are not rated snipers but provide
a bit of precision in a spray & pray world.

Eric Joiner

June 21st 04, 03:14 PM

Too bad it wasnt a head shot.

"Andrew" > wrote in message
...
> http://w3.kill-9.com/rpg-man.mpg
>
>

Kevin Brooks

June 21st 04, 08:41 PM

"John Keeney" > wrote in message
...
>
> "Dav1936531" > wrote in message
> ...
> > >From: "Kevin Brooks"
> > >
> > >
> > >Up until you mentioned the bipod, you had me thinking M-21. But I don't
> recall
> > seeing any bipods being used with M-21's (and I seriously doubt any of
the
> ones
> > that were at one *distant* time available for M-14's are still around).
I
> guess
> > it could be an M-21 with a bipod, but I have never seen one so equipped
> (note
> > that the M-24 bolt action replacment does have a bipod included in the
> kit).
> > OTOH, are you sure you were maybe not gettting a squirrely view of a
M-249
> > (which does indeed have a bipod) with a 30-round magazine in place of
the
> usual
> > drum mag? I am having a problem getting around the whole sniper-with-M21
> thing;
> > I had a sniper-type attend a school with me way back in 1995-96, and I
can
> > rememeber his telling me they had already replaced the M-21 with the
M-24
> in
> > his ARNG light infantry battalion (and it was not an "enhanced brigade"
> unit,
> > either, so their priority of fill would have been about the same as the
> rest of
> > the Guard units).
> > >Brooks
> >
> > The pic was on the AP wire feed from Iraq here on AOL. Unfortunately,
the
> > articles and pics expire after a given period of time and disappear from
> the
> > feed so I cannot now call the picture back up and rellok at it.
> >
> > The guy definitely had some variant of the M-14. I have wanted one of
> these for
> > a long time and recognize it. It was not a bolt action. It was not an
> M-249.
> >
> > I could have incorrectly recalled that his rifle was equiped with a
bipod
> > though. But it certainly was some type of the basic M-14 and had a
> telescope,
> > and I seem to recall a bipod.....but I saw the pic probably a month and
a
> half
> > or so ago, and my memory isn't what it used to be.
> > Dave
>
> I know I posted on this before, but I'll repeat incase it got sucked
> up in to the great bit bucket in the sky. Yes, at the very minimum
> I can guaranty that one NYAG unit currently attached to the 1st ID
> in Iraq have M-14s as issued equipment. They are issued to unit
> "Marksmen" in addition to which ever flavor of M-16 / M-4 that
> infantryman is issued. Marksmen are not rated snipers but provide
> a bit of precision in a spray & pray world.

I'd be very surprised if they are carrying M14's. The M-14 offers danged
little in terms of "precision" versus the M16A2 in the likely ironsight
range fan (the A2 is plenty accurate oput to the 300 meter range). I guess
they could have some old M-21's (which unlike the M-14 have a telescopic
sight)--but which combat unit of the NYARNG is attached to the 1st ID? ISTR
that the NYARNG 42nd ID(M) HQ is indeed deploying to Iraq later this year
(or early next year?).

Brooks
>
>

Alan Minyard

June 21st 04, 09:50 PM

On Sat, 19 Jun 2004 01:30:13 +1000, Nuk > wrote:

>On 18 Jun 2004 12:00:25 GMT, Drewe Manton >
>wrote:
>
>>I'm not even convinced it was a sniper shot. . .looked like automatic
>>weapons fire to me. . repeated shooting and I picked out 2, maybe 3 tracer
>>rounds. Do we even know where it was taken (I don't speak the language of
>>the news reporter!).. might it have been Israel rather than Iraq?
>
>Possibly a M249? with a 1 in 5 tracer round maybe?
>
>I've also seen recently another video (do you think I can find it!) of
>an Iraqi firing what looks like a 50 cal from the hip, he squeezes off
>a burst, then ducks back out of the way when something nearly nails
>him... you can see the impact/ricochet of the incoming round...
>
If he can shoot MaDeuce from the hip, he doesn't NEED a weapon.

Al Minyard

Joe Osman

June 21st 04, 10:57 PM

"Regnirps" > wrote in message
...
> "It's Me Again" wrote:
>
> >For those of you who are wondering what SAW is (I was), it's Squad
Automatic
> >Weapon.
>
> For those who remember "Combat", the SAW man is the modern equivalent of
Kirby
> and his BAR.
>
> What was the WWII TV show that competed with Combat?
>
> -- Charlie Springer
>
>
>
The Action Channel is showing Combat again and also made a 30 minute
retrospective of the show. The series has really aged well as it was well
written and directed. One thing I had forgotten was that they never used
subtitles when a French or German character spoke, it was up to you to
figure it out. They used a lot of young actors and a few young directors
that are famous now.
In the retrospective, everyone remembered how in awe they were at Lee
Marvin's acting and drinking ability. Dale Dye, the Ex-Marine that acted as
the military advisor to Platoon and a lot of other movies said that when
they had a chance to see it on Armed Forces TV in Nam, some guy would say
"Hey we should of tried that last week" when watching the program.

Joe

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Krztalizer

June 22nd 04, 02:46 AM

>
>If he can shoot MaDeuce from the hip, he doesn't NEED a weapon.

Even Sgt Rock could only do that with a water-cooled .30! I don't think a
person could heft a gen-yew-wine M-2 .50 and actually shoot it "as God
intended". Sure were a lot of fun to shoot, but I prefer it hard mounted, to a
ship, preferably.

v/r
Gordon
<====(A+C====>
USN SAR

Its always better to lose -an- engine, not -the- engine.

John Keeney

June 22nd 04, 08:20 AM

"Kevin Brooks" > wrote in message
...
>
> > I know I posted on this before, but I'll repeat incase it got sucked
> > up in to the great bit bucket in the sky. Yes, at the very minimum
> > I can guaranty that one NYAG unit currently attached to the 1st ID
> > in Iraq have M-14s as issued equipment. They are issued to unit
> > "Marksmen" in addition to which ever flavor of M-16 / M-4 that
> > infantryman is issued. Marksmen are not rated snipers but provide
> > a bit of precision in a spray & pray world.
>
> I'd be very surprised if they are carrying M14's. The M-14 offers danged
> little in terms of "precision" versus the M16A2 in the likely ironsight
> range fan (the A2 is plenty accurate oput to the 300 meter range).

Be surprised, be very surprised. I know this via an NCO who's got
them in his unit.
Oh, I checked the unit is carrying the M-4 version of the M-16.

>I guess they could have some old M-21's (which unlike the M-14 have
> a telescopic sight)--

Variations on a theme. It could be an M-21, I fail to make the distinction
quite often and my source may be the same. Then again, he once defined
"HEDP" as "High Explosive Deep Penetrating." Yes, he was ashamed.

> but which combat unit of the NYARNG is attached to the 1st ID? ISTR
> that the NYARNG 42nd ID(M) HQ is indeed deploying to Iraq later this year
> (or early next year?).

I don't know if I should call it the 27th Infantry Brigade or 42nd ID,
the guys went as the 27th & got taken in by the 1st ID but the part
that didn't has since been absorbed into the 42nd ID.

Dave Kearton

June 22nd 04, 11:29 AM

"Krztalizer" > wrote in message
...
| >
| >If he can shoot MaDeuce from the hip, he doesn't NEED a weapon.
|
| Even Sgt Rock could only do that with a water-cooled .30! I don't think a
| person could heft a gen-yew-wine M-2 .50 and actually shoot it "as God
| intended". Sure were a lot of fun to shoot, but I prefer it hard mounted,
to a
| ship, preferably.
|
| v/r
| Gordon
| <====(A+C====>
| USN SAR
|
| Its always better to lose -an- engine, not -the- engine.
|

Equally fun when fired from a pintle on a 113.

Moreso when the not so wily Brer Fox tries to make it across the range.
Mine made it about 50m when a burst caught up with him.

Fired a burst 'acciedentally' at a bunch of mud crabbers at 5,000m - the
splashes were way off, close enough for the proj to still be supersonic and
make splashes in the water about 2m in the air.

It was all accidental - it's in the report.

Cheers

Dave Kearton

Kevin Brooks

June 22nd 04, 02:58 PM

"John Keeney" > wrote in message
...
>
> "Kevin Brooks" > wrote in message
> ...
> >
> > > I know I posted on this before, but I'll repeat incase it got sucked
> > > up in to the great bit bucket in the sky. Yes, at the very minimum
> > > I can guaranty that one NYAG unit currently attached to the 1st ID
> > > in Iraq have M-14s as issued equipment. They are issued to unit
> > > "Marksmen" in addition to which ever flavor of M-16 / M-4 that
> > > infantryman is issued. Marksmen are not rated snipers but provide
> > > a bit of precision in a spray & pray world.
> >
> > I'd be very surprised if they are carrying M14's. The M-14 offers danged
> > little in terms of "precision" versus the M16A2 in the likely ironsight
> > range fan (the A2 is plenty accurate oput to the 300 meter range).
>
> Be surprised, be very surprised. I know this via an NCO who's got
> them in his unit.
> Oh, I checked the unit is carrying the M-4 version of the M-16.

Not surprised, disbelieveing (of the M-14 offering significantly greater
accuracy in the 300 meter and below range). Having fired both the M-14 and
the M-16 (A1 and A2 versions), the idea that the M-14 (sans telescopic
sight) is significantly more accurate in the hands of a rifleman in the
likely engagement range limits is just not very believable.

>
> >I guess they could have some old M-21's (which unlike the M-14 have
> > a telescopic sight)--
>
> Variations on a theme. It could be an M-21, I fail to make the distinction
> quite often and my source may be the same. Then again, he once defined
> "HEDP" as "High Explosive Deep Penetrating." Yes, he was ashamed.

Question--is your source a truly knowledgable and reliable individual?
Having spend many years around troops, I can vouch for the fact that some,
just like their civilian counterparts, either get things wrong (like your
HEDP example), or worse can "overextend" themselves (i.e., verge into the
tall-tale arena).

As far as "variations on a theme" goes...only if you consider a specialized
development capable of reliably hitting a silouette at 600-800 meters (the
M-21) versus the 300-400 meters of the original (M-14 with iron sights--and
400 meters is definitely pushing that capability; just *seeing* the 300
meter target pop up is difficult enough on most ranges...) a "variation upon
a theme". What this guy may be referring to is a trickle-down supply of
M-21's resulting from the fielding of the M-24 to sniper elements (and as an
enhanced light brigade you can be assured the 27th got the M-24 in its
greedy little hands six-to-eight years ago, at least) to unit
marksmen--something I acknowledged was a possibility earlier in the thread.

>
> > but which combat unit of the NYARNG is attached to the 1st ID? ISTR
> > that the NYARNG 42nd ID(M) HQ is indeed deploying to Iraq later this
year
> > (or early next year?).
>
> I don't know if I should call it the 27th Infantry Brigade or 42nd ID,
> the guys went as the 27th & got taken in by the 1st ID but the part
> that didn't has since been absorbed into the 42nd ID.

Based upon a quick check at DefenseLink, it is probably 1-108th Inf, one of
the three light infantry battalions assigned to the 27th SIB(L) (Enhanced);
makes sense, as a battalion of light fighters provides a heavy division like
1st ID(M) with greater versatility and more "boots on the ground" combat
grunts. And in a (minor) effort to keep this somewhere near on-topic, at
least one of the companies of that battalion is designated as "air assault"
in the DoD release (though that is not an assurance of accuracy--DefenseLink
has been known to screw up unit ID's from time to time). The 27th SIB is
still shown as being a seperate brigade; as one of the 15 enhanced brigades
of the ARNG, it is extremely unlikely to have been "absorbed" into the 42nd
ID(M) (the ARNG state HQ's generally love having their enhanced units, and
would scream bloody murder at the thought of losing one because they result
in greater resource allocation to the state HQ). What may be happening is
that the 27th SIB(-) has been attached to the 42nd ID(-) for their upcoming
deployment to Iraq.

Brooks

>
>

Krztalizer

June 22nd 04, 05:00 PM

>
>Moreso when the not so wily Brer Fox tries to make it across the range.
>Mine made it about 50m when a burst caught up with him.

In my case, it was a bipolar rabbit, bent on suicide...

Nuk

June 23rd 04, 12:14 PM

On Sat, 19 Jun 2004 01:30:13 +1000, Nuk > wrote:

>On 18 Jun 2004 12:00:25 GMT, Drewe Manton >
>wrote:
>
>>I'm not even convinced it was a sniper shot. . .looked like automatic
>>weapons fire to me. . repeated shooting and I picked out 2, maybe 3 tracer
>>rounds. Do we even know where it was taken (I don't speak the language of
>>the news reporter!).. might it have been Israel rather than Iraq?
>
>Possibly a M249? with a 1 in 5 tracer round maybe?
>
>I've also seen recently another video (do you think I can find it!) of
>an Iraqi firing what looks like a 50 cal from the hip, he squeezes off
>a burst, then ducks back out of the way when something nearly nails
>him... you can see the impact/ricochet of the incoming round...

I know, it probably wasn't a 50cal, but it looked 'frickin
heavy'(tm)...

Someone, somewhere has seen this video...
I might do a trawl through eMule and see what I come up with...