Antonov vs Galaxy cockpit

[Emilio]

Antonov cockpit:

http://www.airliners.net/open.file/391247/L/

Galaxy cockpit:

http://www.airliners.net/open.file/498959/L/

Aside from a truck parked on Galaxys hood, what is the major design
philosophy difference between American and Russian cockpit layout? Russian
cockpit seems simpler and has large number of idiot lights. American
cockpit if filled with toggle switches. Antonov design seems to show more
clear separation of job task between the pilot and engineer. Any opinions?

What with the big fan that is pointed at the windshield on Antonov? Galaxy
has the fan pointed at the windshield as well. Don't the have defrost air
vents by the windshield, a common 1950 automobile design?

Emilio.

[gary pearson]

What you cannot see from the Antonov picture is the 4 crew seats behind the
pilots. 2 flight engineers on the right side of the cockpit, 1 radio
operator and 1 navigator on the left side. The fans on the antonov are not
for the windsheild, they are cooling fans for the pilots. I know one of them
is pointing at the windshield but they are mounted on a rotating base. I
spent 2 years flying around teh world on An124 charters for Air Foyle. They
are very noisy aircraft although I did have my own cabin so it was quite
comfortable aside from the noise. The worst thing is that you cannot put
toilet paper in teh toilet after you have used it, it goes in a waste bag
hanging by the sink. I hated those toilets.


"Emilio" > wrote in message
...
> Antonov cockpit:
>
> http://www.airliners.net/open.file/391247/L/
>
> Galaxy cockpit:
>
> http://www.airliners.net/open.file/498959/L/
>
> Aside from a truck parked on Galaxys hood, what is the major design
> philosophy difference between American and Russian cockpit layout?
Russian
> cockpit seems simpler and has large number of idiot lights. American
> cockpit if filled with toggle switches. Antonov design seems to show more
> clear separation of job task between the pilot and engineer. Any
opinions?
>
> What with the big fan that is pointed at the windshield on Antonov?
Galaxy
> has the fan pointed at the windshield as well. Don't the have defrost air
> vents by the windshield, a common 1950 automobile design?
>
> Emilio.
>
>

[Tamas Feher]

>I spent 2 years flying around the world on An124 charters Air Foyle.
They
>are very noisy aircraft although I did have my own cabin so it was
quite
>comfortable aside from the noise. The worst thing is that you cannot
put
>toilet paper in teh toilet after you have used it, it goes in a waste
bag
>hanging by the sink. I hated those toilets.

Don't complain!

The soviet AWACS (a modified IL-76 transporter) has no toilet at all,
the crew must use a bucket.
(In the last minute extra electronics were added to the design and they
needed to find another 1,5 cubic meters of rack space, so the toilet
went down the loo.)

[Emilio]

Ok that tells me that pilots bodily function came last as far as design. I
guess if they all drink vodka all the time who cares where they go pee!

I met this Polish guy who was drafted by German army during the WW2. As he
put it "it was either army or labor camps." When he avoided labor camps he
was promptly sent to Russian front! At the time I was into camping so I
asked him "What kind of sleeping bag did they give you to sleep in the
cold?" It was a type of rubberized bag and not a thick one he mentioned.
I suppose the bag was a type of vapor barrier bag to keep warm.

How did you take a dump out there when weather was below zero? Oh he said,
they had this oil drum with fire in it and we all sat around in a circle and
did our thing. He laughed and said, I slept on the ground for 3 years, and
no thanks I don't want to go camping and sleep on the ground any longer.

Emilio

"Tamas Feher" > wrote in message
...
> >I spent 2 years flying around the world on An124 charters Air Foyle.
> They
> >are very noisy aircraft although I did have my own cabin so it was
> quite
> >comfortable aside from the noise. The worst thing is that you cannot
> put
> >toilet paper in teh toilet after you have used it, it goes in a waste
> bag
> >hanging by the sink. I hated those toilets.
>
> Don't complain!
>
> The soviet AWACS (a modified IL-76 transporter) has no toilet at all,
> the crew must use a bucket.
> (In the last minute extra electronics were added to the design and they
> needed to find another 1,5 cubic meters of rack space, so the toilet
> went down the loo.)
>
>

[gary pearson]

The IL-76 I flew on had a toilet but it was in the main cargo cabin where my
crew used to hang out during the flight. Never ever used the toilet on an
IL76 because of that. They were a great crew but we were not that close.


"Tamas Feher" > wrote in message
...
> >I spent 2 years flying around the world on An124 charters Air Foyle.
> They
> >are very noisy aircraft although I did have my own cabin so it was
> quite
> >comfortable aside from the noise. The worst thing is that you cannot
> put
> >toilet paper in teh toilet after you have used it, it goes in a waste
> bag
> >hanging by the sink. I hated those toilets.
>
> Don't complain!
>
> The soviet AWACS (a modified IL-76 transporter) has no toilet at all,
> the crew must use a bucket.
> (In the last minute extra electronics were added to the design and they
> needed to find another 1,5 cubic meters of rack space, so the toilet
> went down the loo.)
>
>

[David E. Powell]

"Tamas Feher" > wrote in message
...
> >I spent 2 years flying around the world on An124 charters Air Foyle.
> They
> >are very noisy aircraft although I did have my own cabin so it was
> quite
> >comfortable aside from the noise. The worst thing is that you cannot
> put
> >toilet paper in teh toilet after you have used it, it goes in a waste
> bag
> >hanging by the sink. I hated those toilets.
>
> Don't complain!
>
> The soviet AWACS (a modified IL-76 transporter) has no toilet at all,
> the crew must use a bucket.
> (In the last minute extra electronics were added to the design and they
> needed to find another 1,5 cubic meters of rack space, so the toilet
> went down the loo.)

I guess they just hope they don't have to do any wild maneuvers, or hit any
turbulence. That's something nobody wants on their radar screen!

[Alistair Gunn]

David E. Powell twisted the electrons to say:
> I guess they just hope they don't have to do any wild maneuvers, or hit
> any turbulence. That's something nobody wants on their radar screen!

Well having just watched _Spaceballs_ I'd guess that would be an
alternative to the radar being "jam'd"! <grins>
--
These opinions might not even be mine ...
Let alone connected with my employer ...

[Cub Driver]

On Mon, 28 Jun 2004 10:54:09 -0500, "Emilio" >
wrote:

>Ok that tells me that pilots bodily function came last as far as design. I
>guess if they all drink vodka all the time who cares where they go pee!

The RAF Hurricanes in Burma in 1942 had no relief tubes, and as you
know, the British are notoriously over-indulgent tea drinkers.

Gives a whole new notion of British fighters as short-legged.

all the best -- Dan Ford
email: (put Cubdriver in subject line)

The Warbird's Forum www.warbirdforum.com
The Piper Cub Forum www.pipercubforum.com
Viva Bush! weblog www.vivabush.org

[Cub Driver]

>How did you take a dump out there when weather was below zero? Oh he said,
>they had this oil drum with fire in it a

The drums were still active in Vietnam, though the fires were to burn
the contents.

I used oil-filled crappers at Fort Dix in 1956. The promise was that
the oil keep the smell from rising. The promise was not fulfilled.

all the best -- Dan Ford
email: (put Cubdriver in subject line)

The Warbird's Forum www.warbirdforum.com
The Piper Cub Forum www.pipercubforum.com
Viva Bush! weblog www.vivabush.org

[Jim Knoyle]

"Cub Driver" > wrote in message
...
>
> >How did you take a dump out there when weather was below zero? Oh he
said,
> >they had this oil drum with fire in it a
>
> The drums were still active in Vietnam, though the fires were to burn
> the contents.
>
> I used oil-filled crappers at Fort Dix in 1956. The promise was that
> the oil keep the smell from rising. The promise was not fulfilled.
>

I remember the similarity between the Pullman roomette I rode
when I went back east to join the navy in 1958 and the four
engined military hop I flew back for Christmas. (Andrews to
Palmdale) In one I could see the railroad ties rushing by when
the crapper was flushed and in the other I saw clouds!

[John Keeney]

"Cub Driver" > wrote in message
...
>
> >How did you take a dump out there when weather was below zero? Oh he
said,
> >they had this oil drum with fire in it a
>
> The drums were still active in Vietnam, though the fires were to burn
> the contents.

The drums were still burning in the mideast as of a couple of months ago.
Actually know someone who admits to kind of liking the job of burning
them.

[Paul J. Adam]

In message >, Cub Driver
> writes
>On Mon, 28 Jun 2004 10:54:09 -0500, "Emilio" >
>wrote:
>
>>Ok that tells me that pilots bodily function came last as far as design. I
>>guess if they all drink vodka all the time who cares where they go pee!
>
>The RAF Hurricanes in Burma in 1942 had no relief tubes, and as you
>know, the British are notoriously over-indulgent tea drinkers.

I'm not aware of any infantry NBC suit having inbuilt relief facilities:
in theory, there are procedures to obtain relief while suited when
circumstances allow. In practice, 'do it in the suit'.

One oppo of mine came down with amoebic dysentery just before the NBC
phase of an exercise... not nice, not comfortable.

(And just for reference, I'm a notorious coffee fiend but haven't
touched tea in years :) )

--
He thinks too much: such men are dangerous.
Julius Caesar I:2

Paul J. Adam MainBox<at>jrwlynch[dot]demon{dot}co(.)uk

[Yeff]

On Thu, 1 Jul 2004 00:22:26 +0100, Paul J. Adam wrote:

> I'm not aware of any infantry NBC suit having inbuilt relief facilities:
> in theory, there are procedures to obtain relief while suited when
> circumstances allow. In practice, 'do it in the suit'.

My worst MOPP experience was during an exercise at Camp Bullis in San
Antonio. Our tactical field site was set up a short distance away from
the other Air Force operations and all of the latrines were near them and
not us. We were forbidden to go outside of our own area without a buddy
so if you needed to use the facilities you had to find someone to go with
you and hold your hand.

During the first full day of the war we were getting loads of intelligence
pointing to an impending attack by Banana Land tac-air (notional South
American country). We were all busy with one task or another so I was
having trouble finding someone who wasn't busy during the rare moments I
wasn't busy to go to the latrine. Before I knew it the air raid sirens
were blaring and we all pulled on masks and gloves (we were already suited
up with everything else). I got under a table and tried to meditate the
feelings of my bursting bladder away.

Our Flight Commander was a good guy. I'd first met him as a 2LT fresh out
of school in the Philippines, and saw him make Captain in San Antonio
(though I still sometimes slipped and called him El Tee - he just
laughed). The attack ended though the area still had to be checked for
chemicals. I just kept meditating. Suddenly one of the Exercise
Evaluator Team members sticks his head in the tent to warn us we'd be in
MOPP for "quite a while". Just keep on meditating... The Captain,
obviously concerned for our health and well-being under a Texas sun,
announced that he wanted to *personally* see all of us drink one canteen
of water to ensure we stayed hydrated. Wah?

I crawled over to the Captain and told him of my dire bladder state. He
just looked at me for a moment and then asked, "What do you want me to do
about it?" Duh? "Let me run over to the latrines." I could see him
shaking his head no. "We have to play this as close to real-world as
possible. Do what you'd do if this were a real-world contingency."

He meant I should **** myself. Damn. Looked like I'd have to kill the
Captain.

I honestly wasn't going to be able to bring myself to **** into my suit in
front of all those people I worked with. Besides, the more I thought
about it the more I realized there just wasn't anything to be accomplished
by my soiling myself. I convinced myself that if I simply stood up and
walked out to the latrines I could justify my actions later on in whatever
type of enquiry followed. I was about to disobey a lawful order...

"ALL CLEAR!" I almost broke down in tears when an EET guy called that out.
I ran to the Captain and demanded to be allowed to go. He said yes and I
called out for someone to accompany me. Two other guys were also in dire
straits and agreed and we hot-footed it out of there.

The first amazing thing I discovered when I got inside the port-a-potty was
the incredible amount of uniform items I had to move out of the way to get
to the business at hand. The second amazing thing occurred when some of
the EET guys set off two extra GBSs (ground-burst simulators) from the
previous attack. Somehow I managed to cut off in mid-stream, stuff
everything back under-cover, and hit the ground outside the latrine
scanning for targets with my weapon. The two other guys hit the ground at
the same moment I did - couldn't of been 5 seconds after the explosions.
We all had the same story: we heard the booms and then we were outside
peering over the sites of our M-16s with no idea how we'd accomplished the
feat.

Good times.

--

-Jeff B.
yeff at erols dot com

[Dweezil Dwarftosser]

"Paul J. Adam" wrote:
>

> I'm not aware of any infantry NBC suit having inbuilt relief facilities:
> in theory, there are procedures to obtain relief while suited when
> circumstances allow. In practice, 'do it in the suit'.

Well, one thing's certain: the suits are excellent at
entrapping noxious gasses.

I've had shop crews who thought it funny to spend most
of the prior evening at a German winefest, sleep a few
hours, then take turns clearing the room. More than
one has been directed to don his chemical suit; they
function quite well...