Paid $50.00 to fill my gas tank this morning.

[ArtKramr]

NO OIL COMPANY WILL BE LEFT BEHIND.




Arthur Kramer
344th BG 494th BS
England, France, Belgium, Holland, Germany
Visit my WW II B-26 website at:
http://www.coastcomp.com/artkramer

[Brett]

"ArtKramr" > wrote:

If you can't afford to drive your car sell it. As for the quoted cost it was
cheaper today (by 20+ cents a gallon) than it was earlier this month in
Georgia so you behind the curve on this supposed issue as well.

[Chad Irby]

In article >,
(ArtKramr) wrote:

> NO OIL COMPANY WILL BE LEFT BEHIND.

All of the anti war folks were telling us the invasion of Iraq was for
cheap gas for SUVs, but Art proves that one wrong. So instead of "we're
taking Iraq's oil for SUVs," it's "we invaded Iraq to make the price of
oil go up."

--
cirby at cfl.rr.com

Remember: Objects in rearview mirror may be hallucinations.
Slam on brakes accordingly.

[Skipper]

> NO OIL COMPANY WILL BE LEFT BEHIND.

Is there no end to your childish hatred ? Once and for all people, the
President does not control the oil and gas economy. In spite of what you
would like to believe, the United States did not invade Iraq to steal their
oil and make the oil companies rich. That's just a convienent but wholly
incorrect rock thrown at our President by people desperate for more ammo.
Go ask any oil & gas economist and they'll tell you how dumb you sound.

[Bob Urz]

ArtKramr wrote:

> NO OIL COMPANY WILL BE LEFT BEHIND.
>
>
>
>
> Arthur Kramer
> 344th BG 494th BS
> England, France, Belgium, Holland, Germany
> Visit my WW II B-26 website at:
> http://www.coastcomp.com/artkramer

If you were driving a B52 it would have been a bargain.

Bob



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[tom c]

It's $2.03 / gal at the little independent station on Decatur by VGT. You
can see some guys L-39 from the station.

TC

[Ragnar]

"ArtKramr" > wrote in message
...
> NO OIL COMPANY WILL BE LEFT BEHIND.

Art, gas prices are down 7 cents a gallon in the last week. Why weren't you
whining about it when it was 7 cents higher?

[Tamas Feher]

>Once and for all people,
>the President does not control the oil and gas economy.

Obviously. To the contrary:

The oil and gas companies control the president.

This is not illegal mind control, as GWB has no mind at all.
The moguls have him on a string, simply.

[Tamas Feher]

>It's $2.03 / gal at the little independent station on Decatur by VGT.
You
>can see some guys L-39 from the station.

FYIF, the czech L-39 Albatros is jet powered, thus it runs on kerosene
(or JP7).

[Tamas Feher]

>> NO OIL COMPANY WILL BE LEFT BEHIND.
>
>Gee Art; if we went to Iraq to steal their oil as you an
>LooneyTunes claim, gas should be $0.29 a gallon by now.

It would be, but the patriotic insurgents blow up the iraqi pipelines
every now and then and kill the collaborants. Allah willing the oil will
be 70USD per barrel by the end of the year and the infidels will have to
revert to the bus and bicycle.

It would be very good for the natural environment. I hope SUVs and
automatic transmission in cars will be banned, as they waste a lot of
fuel and pollute like crazy.

[Brett]

"Tamas Feher" > wrote:
> >It's $2.03 / gal at the little independent station on Decatur by VGT.
> You
> >can see some guys L-39 from the station.
>
> FYIF, the czech L-39 Albatros is jet powered, thus it runs on kerosene
> (or JP7

Why would a cheap subsonic jet trainer need an expensive low-volatility fuel
(JP7) typically associated with the SR-71.

[Cub Driver]

>Gee Art; if we went to Iraq to steal their oil as you an
>WalterLooneyTunes claim, gas should be $0.29 a gallon by now.

When I bought my first car, gas was five gallons for a dollar at the
Red Hat station outside Concord, cheapest in the state. That would
equate to $2 a gallon today. Gas at the discount stations locally is
$1.957, and at BJ's Wholesale Club it's ten cents cheaper.

If Art could afford to drive his car in 1952, he can afford to drive
it today, since the price of gas is essentially the same, or at bit
cheaper. (In 1952 I was paying $75 a semester for tuition at the state
university. Show up with $750 today and they will throw you out.)

But if he needs a $50 bill to fill his tank, obviously he is driven a
vehicle that would have been considered a gas-guzzler even in those
innocent days. I got 20 mpg in 1952; I get 30 mpg today, so the cost
of driving has actually been halved, where gasoline is concerned. Art
must be getting 10 mpg. Serves him right, say I.

all the best -- Dan Ford
email: (put Cubdriver in subject line)

The Warbird's Forum www.warbirdforum.com
The Piper Cub Forum www.pipercubforum.com
Viva Bush! weblog www.vivabush.org

[The CO]

"ArtKramr" > wrote in message
...
> NO OIL COMPANY WILL BE LEFT BEHIND.

No offence Art, but welcome to my world.

91 Octane unleaded petrol is .99cAU a litre, down from $1.04.9 a litre a
week or two back.
That's around 70cUS a litre or about $2.65US to the US toy gallon of
3.785 litres.
Unfortunately, my 95 Proton Wira needs Premium Unleaded (95 Octane)
which is around $1.05AU a litre
or 73.5cUS a litre or about $2.78US to the US toy gallon of 3.785
litres.
My creaky old 77 Nissan Patrol has to use Lead Replaced 95 octane
(Basically Premium with some sort
of non lead additive) and it's about the same price, and it's a big old
3 litre 6 cylinder and chews fuel.....
You've had a pretty good run on fuel prices over there, you've been
lucky...

Needless to say almost half the price of fuel is government excise and
10% GST on top....

The CO

[Tamas Feher]

>Why would a cheap subsonic jet trainer need an expensive
>low-volatility fuel (JP7) typically associated with the SR-71?

Typically? Airliners used to use the JP7 up until it was banned for
being hazardous. Rumor says some african countries still sell it at
their airports.

[Ragnar]

"Tamas Feher" > wrote in message
...
> >Once and for all people,
> >the President does not control the oil and gas economy.
>
> Obviously. To the contrary:
>
> The oil and gas companies control the president.
>
> This is not illegal mind control, as GWB has no mind at all.

Yes, I suppose you would know all about being mindless.

[George Shirley]

tom c wrote:
> It's $2.03 / gal at the little independent station on Decatur by VGT. You
> can see some guys L-39 from the station.
>
> TC
>
>
Less than $1.80.9 per gallon here in SW Louisiana now. We have two major
refineries in town that refine Venzuelan crude, one is owned by
Petroleos Venzuelos so that makes sense. The further down the supply
chain you are the more expensive goods are.

George

[OXMORON1]

Art wrote:
>NO OIL COMPANY WILL BE LEFT BEHIND.

The Mercedes?

You should have bought the diesel!

Oxmoron1
MFE

[Typhoon502]

Cub Driver > wrote in message >...

> But if he needs a $50 bill to fill his tank, obviously he is driven a
> vehicle that would have been considered a gas-guzzler even in those
> innocent days. I got 20 mpg in 1952; I get 30 mpg today, so the cost
> of driving has actually been halved, where gasoline is concerned. Art
> must be getting 10 mpg. Serves him right, say I.

Geez, no kidding. What the heck are you driving in that's got a 22+
gallon tank? What do you NEED it for? Are you hauling lots of
supplies or something? What's your mileage? Why don't you justify
your need for a vehicle of a size and consumption that you've got that
big a fuel tank.

[John Mullen]

"ArtKramr" > wrote in message
...
> NO OIL COMPANY WILL BE LEFT BEHIND.

Here in Scotland diesel is currently going for 81.9p per litre. That is
about $5.50 a USg. Just thought you might be interested.

John

[Harry Andreas]

In article >, "Tamas Feher"
> wrote:

> >Why would a cheap subsonic jet trainer need an expensive
> >low-volatility fuel (JP7) typically associated with the SR-71?
>
> Typically? Airliners used to use the JP7 up until it was banned for
> being hazardous. Rumor says some african countries still sell it at
> their airports.

I think you need to check your facts on JP-7.

--
Harry Andreas
Engineering raconteur

[Brett]

"Tamas Feher" > wrote:
> >Why would a cheap subsonic jet trainer need an expensive
> >low-volatility fuel (JP7) typically associated with the SR-71?
>
> Typically? Airliners used to use the JP7 up until it was banned for
> being hazardous.

Airliners don't use JP7.

> Rumor says some african countries still sell it at
> their airports.

I doubt that any african country even has the required facilities to even
produce JP7.

[Chad Irby]

In article >,
"Tamas Feher" > wrote:

> >> NO OIL COMPANY WILL BE LEFT BEHIND.
> >
> >Gee Art; if we went to Iraq to steal their oil as you an
> >LooneyTunes claim, gas should be $0.29 a gallon by now.
>
> It would be, but the patriotic insurgents blow up the iraqi pipelines
> every now and then and kill the collaborants.

Actually, even at maximum current production levels, Iraq just can't
produce that much oil. It will take them at least a decade, at best,
before they can produce enough oil to make a big dent in world oil
prices.

It's funny how many people have *no* idea of how production and prices
interact, or how much oil some countries could realistically produce.

--
cirby at cfl.rr.com

Remember: Objects in rearview mirror may be hallucinations.
Slam on brakes accordingly.

[Dave Holford]

Typhoon502 wrote:
>
> Cub Driver > wrote in message >...
>
> > But if he needs a $50 bill to fill his tank, obviously he is driven a
> > vehicle that would have been considered a gas-guzzler even in those
> > innocent days. I got 20 mpg in 1952; I get 30 mpg today, so the cost
> > of driving has actually been halved, where gasoline is concerned. Art
> > must be getting 10 mpg. Serves him right, say I.
>
> Geez, no kidding. What the heck are you driving in that's got a 22+
> gallon tank? What do you NEED it for? Are you hauling lots of
> supplies or something? What's your mileage? Why don't you justify
> your need for a vehicle of a size and consumption that you've got that
> big a fuel tank.


It's to haul his ego around.

[tscottme]

"ArtKramr" > wrote in message
...
> NO OIL COMPANY WILL BE LEFT BEHIND.
>

What did you do after the war, sniff glue?

--
Scott

"I don't need to know very much about you or your ideas to know that if you
think Michael Moore is just great, a truth-teller and a much-needed tonic
for everything that is wrong in American life, you are not someone to take
seriously about anything of political consequence, or you are French. But I
repeat myself." - Jonah Goldberg

[John S. Shinal]

(ArtKramr) wrote:
>NO OIL COMPANY WILL BE LEFT BEHIND.

How about taking the bus three days a week like I've been
doing for the past year ? It's not convenient, but I do it anyway.
I can't believe you'd complain about the price of all that gas you're
burning for your own convenience. You're *retired* Art, you have the
experience to understand this stuff by now. It's not a conspiracy, if
25% of the people used economical cars, the unleaded gasoline supply
would be overflowing in two weeks. Huge supply. Prices fall as soon
afterward as the commodities traders on the stock exchange will it.
Consume less, pay less.






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[Keith Willshaw]

"John S. Shinal" > wrote in message
...
> (ArtKramr) wrote:
> >NO OIL COMPANY WILL BE LEFT BEHIND.
>
> How about taking the bus three days a week like I've been
> doing for the past year ? It's not convenient, but I do it anyway.
> I can't believe you'd complain about the price of all that gas you're
> burning for your own convenience. You're *retired* Art, you have the
> experience to understand this stuff by now. It's not a conspiracy, if
> 25% of the people used economical cars, the unleaded gasoline supply
> would be overflowing in two weeks. Huge supply. Prices fall as soon
> afterward as the commodities traders on the stock exchange will it.
> Consume less, pay less.
>

True BUT the USA is NOT the only oil user on the planet.
The simple fact is that the world demand for oil is rising
and the supply isnt keeping pace. Some of that demand
is definitely from the USA but Asian demand is rising
rapidly, especially in China where private automobile
ownership has jumped from pretty much zero to 10 million
in a few years.

Given that the Chinese are planning to manufacture 10 million
cars a year by 2010 the simple fact is that the days of cheap
gasoline are over.

Keith

[John S. Shinal]

"Keith Willshaw" wrote:
>True BUT the USA is NOT the only oil user on the planet.
>The simple fact is that the world demand for oil is rising
>and the supply isnt keeping pace. Some of that demand
>is definitely from the USA but Asian demand is rising
>rapidly, especially in China where private automobile
>ownership has jumped from pretty much zero to 10 million
>in a few years.
>
>Given that the Chinese are planning to manufacture 10 million
>cars a year by 2010 the simple fact is that the days of cheap
>gasoline are over.

I've heard there is a blooming love affair between the Chinese
and personal automobiles.

Add into that the growth of industrialization in the
developing world (to whatever degree you want to estimate), it adds to
the consumer energy requirements as considered globally. Even remotely
meeting that demand will be a huge challenge - I've seen compelling
estimates that even building lots of fission reactors couldn't keep up
with the demand for more than a hundred years or so.





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[tom c]

"Tamas Feher" > wrote in message
...
> >It's $2.03 / gal at the little independent station on Decatur by VGT.
> You
> >can see some guys L-39 from the station.
>
> FYIF, the czech L-39 Albatros is jet powered, thus it runs on kerosene
> (or JP7).
I wasn't saying you used 87 octane in the thing. I was saying you could see
a nice plane from that gas station as you fuel up the car. The gas station
is right next to some hangers and aircraft tiedowns and the L-39 is tied
down in perfect view of the gas station. Decatur Ave in Las Vegas crosses
Rancho Blvd and dead ends at First Flight Aviation. Next to First flight are
these hangers and the spot where the L 39 is tied down. The gas station is
on the corner of Decatur and Rancho.


TC

[Stephen Harding]

Keith Willshaw wrote:

> Given that the Chinese are planning to manufacture 10 million
> cars a year by 2010 the simple fact is that the days of cheap
> gasoline are over.

The Greens should be delighted.

"High" gas prices are the only thing that will really spur
alternative energy development. Out of the pain of a wallet
smacking at the gas pump will come electric cars, fuel cells,
synthetic fuels, or perhaps maybe just more domestic oil
supply.

The real concern is what happens politically as China attempts
to find its own, controlled sources of oil?

F-22s/F-35s/Eurofighters against Chinese developed MiGs over
the Spratleys (assuming there is actually any oil there)?


SMH

[Dave Holford]

Stephen Harding wrote:
>
>
> "High" gas prices are the only thing that will really spur
> alternative energy development. Out of the pain of a wallet
> smacking at the gas pump will come electric cars, fuel cells,
> synthetic fuels, or perhaps maybe just more domestic oil
> supply.
>


It doesn't seem to have worked in other technologically advanced
countries, some of which have manufactured synthetic fuels and
lubricants in the past to meet wartime needs and have used electric
delivery vehicles for generations, and which can only dream of fuel
prices as low as North American ones are now.


Dave

[Dweezil Dwarftosser]

John Mullen wrote:
>

> Here in Scotland diesel is currently going for 81.9p per litre. That is
> about $5.50 a USg. Just thought you might be interested.

I'm more interested in why the price of European gas
hasn't doubled in price since 1985, like it has in the
US.

Between 1975-85, gas in Germany ran about $4 per US gallon
- while back home it was a little more than a dollar.

[Chad Irby]

In article >,
Dweezil Dwarftosser > wrote:

> John Mullen wrote:
> >
> > Here in Scotland diesel is currently going for 81.9p per litre.
> > That is about $5.50 a USg. Just thought you might be interested.
>
> I'm more interested in why the price of European gas
> hasn't doubled in price since 1985, like it has in the
> US.

Actually, in steady dollars, gas prices in the US right now are pretty
much the same as they were in 1985. The only difference is inflation
for nineteen years.

> Between 1975-85, gas in Germany ran about $4 per US gallon
> - while back home it was a little more than a dollar.

In 1985, gas prices were fairly much in line between Germany and the US,
once you allowed for the much higher gas taxes in Germany.

If you're concerned with price differentials, I'd suggest complaining to
the German authorities, who are making about 10% of their tax revenues
off of gas and diesel taxes (versus 3% in the US).

--
cirby at cfl.rr.com

Remember: Objects in rearview mirror may be hallucinations.
Slam on brakes accordingly.

[Ron]

>
>I'm more interested in why the price of European gas
>hasn't doubled in price since 1985, like it has in the
>US.
>
>Between 1975-85, gas in Germany ran about $4 per US gallon
>- while back home it was a little more than a dollar.

Because less of the cost of European gasoline is from the actual cost of the
gas compared to US gasoline.


Ron
PA-31T Cheyenne II
Maharashtra Weather Modification Program
Pune, India

[Keith Willshaw]

"Dweezil Dwarftosser" > wrote in message
...
> John Mullen wrote:
> >
>
> > Here in Scotland diesel is currently going for 81.9p per litre. That is
> > about $5.50 a USg. Just thought you might be interested.
>
> I'm more interested in why the price of European gas
> hasn't doubled in price since 1985, like it has in the
> US.
>
> Between 1975-85, gas in Germany ran about $4 per US gallon
> - while back home it was a little more than a dollar.

Two reasons

1) European currencies have gained in value against the dollar
thus mitigating the rise in oil prices

2) The oil component is a smaller proprtion of the price
of refined fuel, most of it is tax.

Keith

[ArtKramr]

>Subject: Re: Paid $50.00 to fill my gas tank this morning.
>From: "Keith Willshaw"
>Date: 7/4/2004 1:52 PM Pacific Standard Time
>Message-id: >
>
>
>"Dweezil Dwarftosser" > wrote in message
...
>> John Mullen wrote:
>> >
>>
>> > Here in Scotland diesel is currently going for 81.9p per litre. That is
>> > about $5.50 a USg. Just thought you might be interested.
>>
>> I'm more interested in why the price of European gas
>> hasn't doubled in price since 1985, like it has in the
>> US.
>>
>> Between 1975-85, gas in Germany ran about $4 per US gallon
>> - while back home it was a little more than a dollar.
>
>Two reasons
>
>1) European currencies have gained in value against the dollar
>thus mitigating the rise in oil prices
>
>2) The oil component is a smaller proprtion of the price
>of refined fuel, most of it is tax.
>
>Keith
>

The value of the dollar was deliberately diven down to make US products more
competetive overseas. Buying oil on the open market with the weak dollar has
driven oil prices through the roof. Voodoo economics


Arthur Kramer
344th BG 494th BS
England, France, Belgium, Holland, Germany
Visit my WW II B-26 website at:
http://www.coastcomp.com/artkramer

[Keith Willshaw]

"ArtKramr" > wrote in message
...
> >Subject: Re: Paid $50.00 to fill my gas tank this morning.
> >From: "Keith Willshaw"
> >Date: 7/4/2004 1:52 PM Pacific Standard Time
> >Message-id: >
> >
> >
> >"Dweezil Dwarftosser" > wrote in message
> ...
> >> John Mullen wrote:
> >> >
> >>
> >> > Here in Scotland diesel is currently going for 81.9p per litre. That
is
> >> > about $5.50 a USg. Just thought you might be interested.
> >>
> >> I'm more interested in why the price of European gas
> >> hasn't doubled in price since 1985, like it has in the
> >> US.
> >>
> >> Between 1975-85, gas in Germany ran about $4 per US gallon
> >> - while back home it was a little more than a dollar.
> >
> >Two reasons
> >
> >1) European currencies have gained in value against the dollar
> >thus mitigating the rise in oil prices
> >
> >2) The oil component is a smaller proprtion of the price
> >of refined fuel, most of it is tax.
> >
> >Keith
> >
>
> The value of the dollar was deliberately diven down to make US products
more
> competetive overseas. Buying oil on the open market with the weak dollar
has
> driven oil prices through the roof. Voodoo economics
>

The only way to raise the value of the dollar is to radically
raise the interest rate and/or radically cut US government spending.

This would have the side effect of depressing the US economy and
increasing unemployment while cutting social security budgets.

This sounds like a poor idea to me but hey if thats what you want ...

Keith

[ArtKramr]

>Subject: Re: Paid $50.00 to fill my gas tank this morning.
>From: "Keith Willshaw"
>Date: 7/4/2004 3:30 PM Pacific Standard Time
>Message-id: >
>
>
>"ArtKramr" > wrote in message
...
>> >Subject: Re: Paid $50.00 to fill my gas tank this morning.
>> >From: "Keith Willshaw"
>> >Date: 7/4/2004 1:52 PM Pacific Standard Time
>> >Message-id: >
>> >
>> >
>> >"Dweezil Dwarftosser" > wrote in message
>> ...
>> >> John Mullen wrote:
>> >> >
>> >>
>> >> > Here in Scotland diesel is currently going for 81.9p per litre. That
>is
>> >> > about $5.50 a USg. Just thought you might be interested.
>> >>
>> >> I'm more interested in why the price of European gas
>> >> hasn't doubled in price since 1985, like it has in the
>> >> US.
>> >>
>> >> Between 1975-85, gas in Germany ran about $4 per US gallon
>> >> - while back home it was a little more than a dollar.
>> >
>> >Two reasons
>> >
>> >1) European currencies have gained in value against the dollar
>> >thus mitigating the rise in oil prices
>> >
>> >2) The oil component is a smaller proprtion of the price
>> >of refined fuel, most of it is tax.
>> >
>> >Keith
>> >
>>
>> The value of the dollar was deliberately diven down to make US products
>more
>> competetive overseas. Buying oil on the open market with the weak dollar
>has
>> driven oil prices through the roof. Voodoo economics
>>
>
>The only way to raise the value of the dollar is to radically
>raise the interest rate and/or radically cut US government spending.
>
> This would have the side effect of depressing the US economy and
>increasing unemployment while cutting social security budgets.
>
>This sounds like a poor idea to me but hey if thats what you want ...
>
>Keith



True. But hard dollars mean lower demand for American goods overseas.When the
dollar wa at it's peak years ago, US sales overseas were very small. Can't have
it both ways..





Arthur Kramer
344th BG 494th BS
England, France, Belgium, Holland, Germany
Visit my WW II B-26 website at:
http://www.coastcomp.com/artkramer

[Tank Fixer]

In article >,
on Thu, 1 Jul 2004 12:27:23 +0200,
Tamas Feher attempted to say .....

> >Why would a cheap subsonic jet trainer need an expensive
> >low-volatility fuel (JP7) typically associated with the SR-71?
>
> Typically? Airliners used to use the JP7 up until it was banned for
> being hazardous. Rumor says some african countries still sell it at
> their airports.

You are joking ? right ?

JP7 in africa ?


--
When dealing with propaganda terminology one sometimes always speaks in
variable absolutes. This is not to be mistaken for an unbiased slant.

[Tank Fixer]

In article >,
on Thu, 01 Jul 2004 08:50:53 -0700,
Harry Andreas attempted to say .....

> In article >, "Tamas Feher"
> > wrote:
>
> > >Why would a cheap subsonic jet trainer need an expensive
> > >low-volatility fuel (JP7) typically associated with the SR-71?
> >
> > Typically? Airliners used to use the JP7 up until it was banned for
> > being hazardous. Rumor says some african countries still sell it at
> > their airports.
>
> I think you need to check your facts on JP-7.

He needs to check all his "facts"


--
When dealing with propaganda terminology one sometimes always speaks in
variable absolutes. This is not to be mistaken for an unbiased slant.

[Tank Fixer]

In article >,
on Thu, 1 Jul 2004 22:21:27 -0500,
tscottme attempted to say .....

> "ArtKramr" > wrote in message
> ...
> > NO OIL COMPANY WILL BE LEFT BEHIND.
> >
>
> What did you do after the war, sniff glue?

What do you mean after, fabric control surfaces, dope to repair them...


--
When dealing with propaganda terminology one sometimes always speaks in
variable absolutes. This is not to be mistaken for an unbiased slant.

[Vicente Vazquez]

"The CO" > wrote in message >...
> 91 Octane unleaded petrol is .99cAU a litre, down from $1.04.9 a litre a
> week or two back.
> That's around 70cUS a litre or about $2.65US to the US toy gallon of
> 3.785 litres.

In São Paulo, SP, Brasil ...

87 octane gas => R$ 2.00/liter => US$ 2.52/US gallon
91 octane gas => R$ 2.15/liter => US$ 2.71/US gallon