Re: the AWOL status of Bush is a relevant election issue

[D. Strang]

> wrote
> the AWOL status of Bush is a relevant election issue
> It relates directly to the possible drafting of thousands of young Americans.
> These future draftees may be serving under an AWOL Commander-in-Chief.

Future draft? Never heard it was being considered. We already have something
better than the draft, and it's called the Individual Ready Reserve. Why screw up
something that works?

President Bush was never AWOL. There would be a record of that.

[WalterM140]

>President Bush was never AWOL. There would be a record of that.
>
>

Yes there is:


http://users.cis.net/coldfeet/doc10.gif

Walt

[D. Strang]

"WalterM140" > wrote
> >President Bush was never AWOL. There would be a record of that.
>
> Yes there is:
>
> http://users.cis.net/coldfeet/doc10.gif

I don't see any non-judicial punishment or charges. I don't even see the
term AWOL in that link. That link has nothing to do with the condition of
being absent without leave. Being AWOL is something the military frowns
on, and is highlighted in your records. It follows you forever.

[WalterM140]

>> Yes there is:
>>
>> http://users.cis.net/coldfeet/doc10.gif
>
>I don't see any non-judicial punishment or charges.

The link shows a 16 month period when Bush performed no duties whatsoever.

Don't call it AWOL then. Just don't call it an honorable way to act.

Walt

[WalterM140]

>Between January 20, 1993, and January 20, 2001, every US service member
>served under a commander-in-chief who had left the country to avoid military
>service in time of war.

Clinton's not running.

The point, for me, is that the Bush campaign has impugned Senator Kerry's
service when they cannot account for two years of Bush's service.

Walt

[B2431]

>From: (WalterM140)
>Date: 7/11/2004 1:25 PM Central Daylight Time
>Message-id: >
>
>>Between January 20, 1993, and January 20, 2001, every US service member
>>served under a commander-in-chief who had left the country to avoid military
>>service in time of war.
>
>Clinton's not running.
>
>The point, for me, is that the Bush campaign has impugned Senator Kerry's
>service when they cannot account for two years of Bush's service.
>
>Walt

Walt, your left wing bitterness is blinding you. No one in the Bush campaign is
impugning Kerry's military service. They are, however, questioning his
Congressional record.

There are people who question the validity of Kerry's war time actions, but no
one in the Bush campaign is doing so. It would be political suicide.

Dan, U.S. Air Force, retired

[WalterM140]

>>The point, for me, is that the Bush campaign has impugned Senator Kerry's
>>service when they cannot account for two years of Bush's service.
>>
>>Walt
>
>Walt, your left wing bitterness is blinding you. No one in the Bush campaign
>is
>impugning Kerry's military service. They are, however, questioning his
>Congressional record.
>
>There are people who question the validity of Kerry's war time actions, but
>no
>one in the Bush campaign is doing so. It would be political suicide.
>

Check this link:

http://theedge.bostonherald.com/bookNews/view.bg?articleid=19169

Excerpt:

Anti-Kerry vets are Bush mercenaries

By Wayne Woodlief

Thursday, May 6, 2004

I'll take those stout-hearted Vietnam veterans defending John Kerry [related,
bio] any day over that bitter, inconsistent crew that tried to smear him, to
the benefit of President Bush [related, bio], at the National Press Club
Tuesday.

Kerry is ``totally unfit to be commander in chief,'' said former Navy Lt.
Cmdr. George Elliott, Kerry's direct commanding officer in Vietnam, along with
retired Rear Adm. Roy Hoffman, former Coast Guard Captain Adrian Lonsdale and
several other higher-ups in the chain of command over Kerry at the time.

They belittled Kerry's three Purple Hearts and said he had undermined
troops in the field when, upon being discharged from the Navy, he became a
leader of the anti-war movement and testified of ``atrocities'' by U.S. forces.


Yet Elliott had written up Kerry for a Silver Star for gallantry back in
1969. And he and Lonsdale had sung a different tune when they stood by Kerry's
side in 1996 when the senator was in a tough fight for re-election.

[end]

There really is a Republican Party dirty tricks apparatus.

The Bush campaign HAS been scummy enough to attack Senator Kerry's service when
Bush can't account for two years of his service.


Walt

[Brooks Gregory]

I wonder where John Edwards was during the Viet Nam war. With a DOB of 1953,
he certainly was old enough to have served. Why didn't he?


--
Brooks Gregory
http://www.theaapc.org/

[D. Strang]

"R. David Steele" /OMEGA> wrote
>
> The vast majority of high school grads (over 97%) are unfit for
> service. Rich or poor. Most are just too stupid. Or over
> weight. Then too many males are either out of control (drugs,
> alcohol, felonies) or mommies boys who lack self discipline and
> will (emasculated).

This caused me to have a flashback. When I was in Basic training,
the second night, there was a huge noise and the DI came in and was
throwing people around like wood. Kicking bunks over, etc. When
myself and Ernie (forget his last name now) grabbed him by the neck
and legs, then two more guys started to kick the **** out of him. He
went slack, and we let him go. He slowly got up and brushed himself
off as we cautiously gave him a little room, and then we turned around
and about 30 guys were hiding behind things, and none near enough
to help. He said in his best winded voice. In five days we better all
be ready to kill, or he would drag our mamma's down to pick up the
body. Then he appointed those of us that tackled him as squad leaders,
and took us to the DI tent for coffee where he had an academic
heart to heart with us about where we were headed, and what a
squad leader was used for. He died in a plane crash in Bolivia about
1968 on his way home. I still have the bite mark on my hand where
he nearly tore my little finger off.

Anyway, unless your from the inner city, or play rough sports, you're
probably not ready for the Infantry :-)

[Steven P. McNicoll]

"WalterM140" > wrote in message
...
>
> http://users.cis.net/coldfeet/doc10.gif
>

That is not a record of Bush being AWOL.

[Ian MacLure]

(WalterM140) wrote in
:

[snip]

> Don't call it AWOL then. Just don't call it an honorable way to act.

You are saying there's something dishono(u)rable about it.
We say you nay.

Happy?

IBM

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[Steven P. McNicoll]

"WalterM140" > wrote in message
...
> >Between January 20, 1993, and January 20, 2001, every US service member
> >served under a commander-in-chief who had left the country to avoid
military
> >service in time of war.
>
> Clinton's not running.
>

Again, you miss the point. The folks that are screaming about Bush's Guard
service during Vietnam are the same forks that said Clinton's draft dodging
was not an issue. To be a liberal is to be a hypocrite.


>
> The point, for me, is that the Bush campaign has impugned Senator Kerry's
> service when they cannot account for two years of Bush's service.
>

The Bush campaign has not impugned Senator Kerry's service.

[Steven P. McNicoll]

"Brooks Gregory" > wrote in message
.. .
>
> I wonder where John Edwards was during the Viet Nam war. With a DOB
> of 1953, he certainly was old enough to have served. Why didn't he?
>

Like Cheney, he had other plans.

[Ian MacLure]

(WalterM140) wrote in
:

>>Between January 20, 1993, and January 20, 2001, every US service
>>member served under a commander-in-chief who had left the country to
>>avoid military service in time of war.
>
> Clinton's not running.
>
> The point, for me, is that the Bush campaign has impugned Senator
> Kerry's service when they cannot account for two years of Bush's
> service.

The Air Force can't or won't in a form that would satisfy
your ambitions.
Hardly Bush's fault.
So you're left blowing smoke.

IBM

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[Cub Driver]

>the AWOL status of Bush is a relevant election issue

It's not an issue because he was never awol. See
www.warbirdforum.com/bushf102.htm for an analysis of everything that
is on the record or even mildly substantiated about his six and
one-half years in the Air Guard and reserves.


all the best -- Dan Ford
email: (put Cubdriver in subject line)

The Warbird's Forum www.warbirdforum.com
The Piper Cub Forum www.pipercubforum.com
Viva Bush! weblog www.vivabush.org

[WalterM140]

>> the AWOL status of Bush is a relevant election issue
>
> No.
> He wasn't AWOL.
>

There is at least a 16 month gap in his service.

Walt

[ian maclure]

On Mon, 12 Jul 2004 11:15:27 +0000, WalterM140 wrote:

>>> the AWOL status of Bush is a relevant election issue
>>
>> No.
>> He wasn't AWOL.
>>
>
> There is at least a 16 month gap in his service.

In short, because you are unable to come with records that support
your theories you claim there's a 16 month gap?
You agenda is showing.

IBM

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[B2431]

>From: (WalterM140)
>Date: 7/12/2004 6:15 AM Central Daylight Time
>Message-id: >
>
>>> the AWOL status of Bush is a relevant election issue
>>
>> No.
>> He wasn't AWOL.
>>
>
>There is at least a 16 month gap in his service.
>
>Walt

Were you as tough on Clinton for dodging the draft by signing up for ROTC then
leaving the country to avoid going?

Are you being as tough on Kerry for missing something like 2/3 of the Senate
votes since he started running? Will you be just as hard on Edwards who has
missed even more?


Dan, U.S. Air Force, retired

[Ragnar]

"WalterM140" > wrote in message
...
> >> the AWOL status of Bush is a relevant election issue
> >
> > No.
> > He wasn't AWOL.
> >
>
> There is at least a 16 month gap in his service.

Then show us where competent autrhority declared him AWOL.

[Brooks Gregory]

It sure was in 2000 wasn't it?


--
If you really want to save the
environment, support a family farmer.

Brooks Gregory

[BUFDRVR]

D. Strang wrote:

>You better sit down. All my fathers WW2 records were accidentally destroyed
>in a fire in St. Louis.

Sometimes you don't even need a fire. I was missing two training reports an OPR
in my records. I must be an unknowing participant in the "vast right wing lost
records conspiracy".


BUFDRVR

"Stay on the bomb run boys, I'm gonna get those bomb doors open if it harelips
everyone on Bear Creek"

[B2431]

>From: (Jack Linthicum)
>Date: 7/13/2004 5:35 AM Central Daylight Time
>Message-id: >
>
>"D. Strang" > wrote in message
>news:<M1IIc.23472$r3.6968@okepread03>...
>> "Jack Linthicum" > wrote
>> >
>> > anyone ever come up with an explanation of why Kerry with no VIPs in
>> > his family has all of his military records for public display and
>> > Bush, with a father who was a Congressman, UN ambassador, head of the
>> > RNC, ambassador to China and Director of Central Intelligenec before
>> > he was vice president and president can't find his because they were
>> > 'accidentily destroyed'?
>>
>> You better sit down. All my fathers WW2 records were accidentally
>destroyed
>> in a fire in St. Louis. The whole country suspects my father was involved,
>as he
>> was a Teamster. He's been dead for 30 years, but people still remember he
>had
>> no military records, and that he was a Teamster. It's simple math: 1 + 1 =
>3.
>
>Funny, my records were at that same facility in St. Louis and
>survived, or were recoverable.

The fire in question only involved a portion of the building. I no longer
recall the details beyond that.

Dan, U.S. Air Force, retired

[Steve Mellenthin]

>Any white male who thinks he "made it on his own" without the benefits
>of race and gender is simply delusional.

But on the other hand someone who thinks that the best way to make a living is
to have babies and garner more government benefits, wear $500 Nike shoes, carry
$500 Gucci handbags, and drive fancy cars while at the same time earning no
more than an 8th grade education is delisuional as well.

[Mike Marron]

>someone wrote:

>Any white male who thinks he "made it on his own" without the benefits
>of race and gender is simply delusional.

Huh? In this day and age being a white male is a *liability.*

Now, an African American female (the dumber, lazier and fatter the
better!) has it made in the shade.

[Marc Reeve]

B2431 wrote:

>>From: (Jack Linthicum)
>>Date: 7/13/2004 5:35 AM Central Daylight Time
>>Message-id: >
>>
>>"D. Strang" > wrote in message
>>news:<M1IIc.23472$r3.6968@okepread03>...
>>
>>>"Jack Linthicum" > wrote
>>>
>>>>anyone ever come up with an explanation of why Kerry with no VIPs in
>>>>his family has all of his military records for public display and
>>>>Bush, with a father who was a Congressman, UN ambassador, head of the
>>>>RNC, ambassador to China and Director of Central Intelligenec before
>>>>he was vice president and president can't find his because they were
>>>>'accidentily destroyed'?
>>>
>>>You better sit down. All my fathers WW2 records were accidentally
>>
>>destroyed
>>
>>>in a fire in St. Louis. The whole country suspects my father was involved,
>>
>>as he
>>
>>>was a Teamster. He's been dead for 30 years, but people still remember he
>>
>>had
>>
>>>no military records, and that he was a Teamster. It's simple math: 1 + 1 =
>>
>>3.
>>
>>Funny, my records were at that same facility in St. Louis and
>>survived, or were recoverable.
>
>
> The fire in question only involved a portion of the building. I no longer
> recall the details beyond that.
>
> Dan, U.S. Air Force, retired

IIRC the fire happened in the 1968-69 timeframe.

Many WWII and WWI records were lost. Some Korea and early Vietnam as well.

-Marc

--
Marc Reeve
Some guy at a desk somewhere ^reverse^ for email