Hooks (Was Re: Operation Cyanide and the USS Liberty )

[[email protected]]

#Yes, I saw a Mirage 3 close by. Unlike other planes I saw close
#by (A4, F4, F15), it did not have a hook.)

Fred J. McCall > wrote in message >...
> Many people mistake the 'short field hook' on some USAF tactical
> aircraft for a 'tailhook'. They are nowhere close to the same thing
> and the typical USAF fighter attempting an arrested trap is going to
> blow its gear, rip its 'hook' off, and become so much flaming rubbish
> falling off the deck.

The IAF had several cables near the end of the runways. Since the
runways were much longer than an aircraft carrier runway, the hooks
were rarely used. But I saw an A4 after it used its hook, and
it looked just fine. (The F4 hook was strong enough to hold the
plane while two engines were running with afterburn on.)

I don't know much about the USAF use of the hooks, so I x-post to
rec.aviation.military to hear the opinions of people who know better.

[Marc Reeve]

wrote:

> #Yes, I saw a Mirage 3 close by. Unlike other planes I saw close
> #by (A4, F4, F15), it did not have a hook.)
>
> Fred J. McCall > wrote in message >...
>
>>Many people mistake the 'short field hook' on some USAF tactical
>>aircraft for a 'tailhook'. They are nowhere close to the same thing
>>and the typical USAF fighter attempting an arrested trap is going to
>>blow its gear, rip its 'hook' off, and become so much flaming rubbish
>>falling off the deck.
>
>
> The IAF had several cables near the end of the runways. Since the
> runways were much longer than an aircraft carrier runway, the hooks
> were rarely used. But I saw an A4 after it used its hook, and
> it looked just fine. (The F4 hook was strong enough to hold the
> plane while two engines were running with afterburn on.)
>
> I don't know much about the USAF use of the hooks, so I x-post to
> rec.aviation.military to hear the opinions of people who know better.

Well, given that the A-4 was designed as a naval plane, naturally it had
a proper tailhook.

I don't recall if Israel got ex-Navy F-4s. Probably. They'd have proper
tailhooks as well.

The F-15s, on the other hand, would have "short field" hooks.

--
Marc Reeve
Some guy at a desk somewhere ^reverse^ for email

[Ron]

>I don't recall if Israel got ex-Navy F-4s. Probably. They'd have proper
>tailhooks as well.

I believe they recieved some directly from the carriers in 1973


Ron
PA-31T Cheyenne II
Maharashtra Weather Modification Program
Pune, India

[Peter Stickney]

In article >,
(Ron) writes:
>>I don't recall if Israel got ex-Navy F-4s. Probably. They'd have proper
>>tailhooks as well.
>
> I believe they recieved some directly from the carriers in 1973

Not unless the Navy stared flying F-4Es. (The gun-nosed model) That's
the only kind the Israelis have had. I think they did get some USAFE
F-4E's though.

It doesn't matter, wrt the tailhooks. All Phantoms had the same great
big Navy Hook. The Air Force uses arrestor gear too, after all, anf
redesigning a perfiectly good hook would be a waste of time, money and
effort.

--
Pete Stickney
A strong conviction that something must be done is the parent of many
bad measures. -- Daniel Webster

[Ron]

>> I believe they recieved some directly from the carriers in 1973
>
>Not unless the Navy stared flying F-4Es. (The gun-nosed model) That's
>the only kind the Israelis have had. I think they did get some USAFE
>F-4E's though.
>

I think I had read somewhere they had received F-4s right off the carriers at
the time. I looked around for a source and could not find anything regarding
it, but I did see references for having received USAF F-4Es.


Ron
PA-31T Cheyenne II
Maharashtra Weather Modification Program
Pune, India

[Marc Reeve]

Ron wrote:

>>>I believe they recieved some directly from the carriers in 1973
>>
>>Not unless the Navy stared flying F-4Es. (The gun-nosed model) That's
>>the only kind the Israelis have had. I think they did get some USAFE
>>F-4E's though.
>>
>
>
> I think I had read somewhere they had received F-4s right off the carriers at
> the time. I looked around for a source and could not find anything regarding
> it, but I did see references for having received USAF F-4Es.
>
IIRC there was a "contingency plan" to deliver Scooters and Phantoms
straight
from the decks of carriers that were going off/on station in the Med,
but it was never put into effect.

-Marc

--
Marc Reeve
Some guy at a desk somewhere ^reverse^ for email

[Dweezil Dwarftosser]

Peter Stickney wrote:
>
> Not unless the Navy stared flying F-4Es. (The gun-nosed model) That's
> the only kind the Israelis have had. I think they did get some USAFE
> F-4E's though.

I dunno if they got some from the USN - but they got a
bunch of our old F-4Es in 1973. We must have passed at
least three squadrons of them through MacDill that year.
They came to us from an IRAN facility, where they had
been freshly-painted in desert camo - and we got the
additional duty of full (avionics) systems checks on every
one of them before the trip across the Atlantic.
Lots of broke WCS radars there... on top of the approx.
120 F-4Es (in four squadrons) of our own Wing.

BTW - this was accomplished (for the WCS toads) with an
80% manning level; we had about 90 3-levels, straight
from tech school - and 8 NCOs, E-4 or higher, to cover
150 F-4s at any given time, a shop with three mockups,
and three radar calibration docks. (Whew!) We had
19-year-old two-stripers on "Red X" orders, and as shift
supervisors.

It was quite a "rite of passage" for many!

running