Nazi attempt to match the B-17

[B2431]

During WW2 the Nazis were so impressed by the B-17 they designed their own
version. I think they only built 2. If memory serves it was called the Ou812.

The only known picture of it flying has for some reason shown up on a military
humour site.

http://www.strategypage.com/humor/articles/military_jokes_burt_ruttan_b17.asp

Dan, U.S. Air Force, retired

[Jukka O. Kauppinen]

It's not the April 1st, wink wink.

jok


> During WW2 the Nazis were so impressed by the B-17 they designed their own
> version. I think they only built 2. If memory serves it was called the Ou812.
>
> The only known picture of it flying has for some reason shown up on a military
> humour site.
>
> http://www.strategypage.com/humor/articles/military_jokes_burt_ruttan_b17.asp
>
> Dan, U.S. Air Force, retired

[OXMORON1]

Part of Dan's message was the name proposed for the "German B-17"

>I think they only built 2. If memory serves it was called the Ou812.

That is no worse than having "Unzip" as a tactical callsign for a month or so.

Rick

[Kevin Brooks]

"B2431" > wrote in message
...
> During WW2 the Nazis were so impressed by the B-17 they designed their own
> version. I think they only built 2. If memory serves it was called the
Ou812.
>
> The only known picture of it flying has for some reason shown up on a
military
> humour site.
>
>
http://www.strategypage.com/humor/articles/military_jokes_burt_ruttan_b17.asp
>
> Dan, U.S. Air Force, retired

You are gonna be sorry you did this when someday in the future our resident
Germany-did-everything-first-and-better clown tosses this back as "proof"
that the Nazis were really ahead of the power curve when it comes to using
canards...

Brooks

[B2431]

>From: "Kevin Brooks"
>Date: 8/17/2004 2:59 PM Central Daylight Time
>Message-id: >
>
>
>"B2431" > wrote in message
...
>> During WW2 the Nazis were so impressed by the B-17 they designed their own
>> version. I think they only built 2. If memory serves it was called the
>Ou812.
>>
>> The only known picture of it flying has for some reason shown up on a
>military
>> humour site.
>>
>>
>http://www.strategypage.com/humor/articles/military_jokes_burt_ruttan_b17.asp
>>
>> Dan, U.S. Air Force, retired
>
>You are gonna be sorry you did this when someday in the future our resident
>Germany-did-everything-first-and-better clown tosses this back as "proof"
>that the Nazis were really ahead of the power curve when it comes to using
>canards...
>
>Brooks
>
Not really, I had planned on making an observation that I was surprised he
hadn't provided this proof earlier. That would have been a cheap shot <g>

Dan, U.S. Air Force, retired

[Richard Brooks]

B2431 wrote:
> During WW2 the Nazis were so impressed by the B-17 they designed
> their own version. I think they only built 2. If memory serves it was
> called the Ou812.

Try Kg200 DL+XC fin No.124585 originally "Wulf Hound" of the 303rd Bomb
Group at Molesworth, force landed December 1942!

Richard.

[Eunometic]

"Kevin Brooks" > wrote in message >...
> "B2431" > wrote in message
> ...
> > During WW2 the Nazis were so impressed by the B-17 they designed their own
> > version. I think they only built 2. If memory serves it was called the
> > Ou812.
> >
> > The only known picture of it flying has for some reason shown up on a
> > military humour site.
> >
> >
> http://www.strategypage.com/humor/articles/military_jokes_burt_ruttan_b17.asp
> >
> > Dan, U.S. Air Force, retired
>
> You are gonna be sorry you did this when someday in the future our resident
> Germany-did-everything-first-and-better clown tosses this back as "proof"
> that the Nazis were really ahead of the power curve when it comes to using
> canards...
>
> Brooks

I can't resist.

This Messerschmitt P.1011 "Ente" proposal is a clear canard designe:
http://www.luft46.com/mess/meente.html

"This was another variation of the P.1110 design. The design was of a
"duck" (Ente) configuration, that is, small wings (or canards) in
front with the larger wing to the rear. This was felt would allow good
pitch and lateral stability for low-speed flight characteristics. "

So clearly Messerschmitt were aware of the advantages a canard
offered.

Also these two Henschell designes the Hs P.75 and Hs P.87
http://www.luft46.com/henschel/henschel.html

It is interesting why the word "canard" is used: perhaps because the
leading winglets are "misleading". The Germans were using "Ente"
which is their word for "Duck" and the French word "canard" of course
means "duck".

This is the Google dictionary Definition:

canard:
An unfounded or false, deliberately misleading story.

A short winglike control surface projecting from the fuselage of an
aircraft, such as a space shuttle, mounted forward of the main wing
and serving as a horizontal stabilizer.

An aircraft whose horizontal stabilizing surfaces are forward of the
main wing.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
[French, duck, canard, probably from the phrase vendre un canard à
moitié, to half-sell a duck, to swindle, from Old French quanart,
duck, from caner, to cackle, of imitative origin.]

[Kevin Brooks]

"Eunometic" > wrote in message
om...
> "Kevin Brooks" > wrote in message
>...
> > "B2431" > wrote in message
> > ...
> > > During WW2 the Nazis were so impressed by the B-17 they designed their
own
> > > version. I think they only built 2. If memory serves it was called the
> > > Ou812.
> > >
> > > The only known picture of it flying has for some reason shown up on a
> > > military humour site.
> > >
> > >
> >
http://www.strategypage.com/humor/articles/military_jokes_burt_ruttan_b17.asp
> > >
> > > Dan, U.S. Air Force, retired
> >
> > You are gonna be sorry you did this when someday in the future our
resident
> > Germany-did-everything-first-and-better clown tosses this back as
"proof"
> > that the Nazis were really ahead of the power curve when it comes to
using
> > canards...
> >
> > Brooks
>
> I can't resist.
>
> This Messerschmitt P.1011 "Ente" proposal is a clear canard designe:
> http://www.luft46.com/mess/meente.html
>
> "This was another variation of the P.1110 design. The design was of a
> "duck" (Ente) configuration, that is, small wings (or canards) in
> front with the larger wing to the rear. This was felt would allow good
> pitch and lateral stability for low-speed flight characteristics. "
>
> So clearly Messerschmitt were aware of the advantages a canard
> offered.

Wow. And only what, forty years or so after the Wright bothers used a
canard?

"So many pilots forget, or never knew, that the earliest heavier-than-air
birds pretty much all flew beak-first. But check out any photo of the
Wrights' earliest machines and some built by their followers ... the
canard."

www.avweb.com/news/newacft/182746-1.html

Brooks

>
> Also these two Henschell designes the Hs P.75 and Hs P.87
> http://www.luft46.com/henschel/henschel.html
>
> It is interesting why the word "canard" is used: perhaps because the
> leading winglets are "misleading". The Germans were using "Ente"
> which is their word for "Duck" and the French word "canard" of course
> means "duck".
>
> This is the Google dictionary Definition:
>
> canard:
> An unfounded or false, deliberately misleading story.
>
> A short winglike control surface projecting from the fuselage of an
> aircraft, such as a space shuttle, mounted forward of the main wing
> and serving as a horizontal stabilizer.
>
> An aircraft whose horizontal stabilizing surfaces are forward of the
> main wing.
>
> --------------------------------------------------------------------------
------
> [French, duck, canard, probably from the phrase vendre un canard à
> moitié, to half-sell a duck, to swindle, from Old French quanart,
> duck, from caner, to cackle, of imitative origin.]

[Robert Briggs]

Kevin Brooks wrote:
> Eunometic wrote:

> > This Messerschmitt P.1011 "Ente" proposal is a clear canard designe:
> > http://www.luft46.com/mess/meente.html

> > So clearly Messerschmitt were aware of the advantages a canard
> > offered.
>
> Wow. And only what, forty years or so after the Wright bothers used a
> canard?

Rats! You beat me to it ...

[B2431]

>From: Peter Twydell
>Date: 8/18/2004 2:15 PM Central Daylight Time
>Message-id: >
>
>In article >, Eunometic
> writes
>>
>>canard:
>>An unfounded or false, deliberately misleading story.
>>
>>[French, duck, canard, probably from the phrase vendre un canard à
>>moitié, to half-sell a duck, to swindle, from Old French quanart,
>>duck, from caner, to cackle, of imitative origin.]
>
>So a base canard is a duck with a deep voice?
>--
>Peter
>

Stop, you are quacking me up over here.

Dan, U.S, Air Force, retired

[Peter Twydell]

In article >, Eunometic
> writes
>
>canard:
>An unfounded or false, deliberately misleading story.
>
>[French, duck, canard, probably from the phrase vendre un canard à
>moitié, to half-sell a duck, to swindle, from Old French quanart,
>duck, from caner, to cackle, of imitative origin.]

So a base canard is a duck with a deep voice?
--
Peter

Ying tong iddle-i po!

[Peter Kemp]

On 18 Aug 2004 18:34:35 GMT, (B2431) wrote:

>>From: Peter Twydell
>>Date: 8/18/2004 2:15 PM Central Daylight Time
>>Message-id: >
>>
>>In article >, Eunometic
> writes
>>>
>>>canard:
>>>An unfounded or false, deliberately misleading story.
>>>
>>>[French, duck, canard, probably from the phrase vendre un canard à
>>>moitié, to half-sell a duck, to swindle, from Old French quanart,
>>>duck, from caner, to cackle, of imitative origin.]
>>
>>So a base canard is a duck with a deep voice?
>>--
>>Peter
>>
>
>Stop, you are quacking me up over here.

Eider know - one mention of canard and everyone is trying to get their
awful puns in. It's criminal I tell you!

Peter Kemp

[B2431]

>From: Peter Kemp
>Date: 8/18/2004 3:14 PM Central Daylight Time
>Message-id: >
>
>On 18 Aug 2004 18:34:35 GMT, (B2431) wrote:
>
>>>From: Peter Twydell
>>>Date: 8/18/2004 2:15 PM Central Daylight Time
>>>Message-id: >
>>>
>>>In article >, Eunometic
> writes
>>>>
>>>>canard:
>>>>An unfounded or false, deliberately misleading story.
>>>>
>>>>[French, duck, canard, probably from the phrase vendre un canard à
>>>>moitié, to half-sell a duck, to swindle, from Old French quanart,
>>>>duck, from caner, to cackle, of imitative origin.]
>>>
>>>So a base canard is a duck with a deep voice?
>>>--
>>>Peter
>>>
>>
>>Stop, you are quacking me up over here.
>
>Eider know - one mention of canard and everyone is trying to get their
>awful puns in. It's criminal I tell you!
>
>Peter Kemp

Well, it is an aviation forum so we are just winging it. 'sides "aweful pun" is
redundant.

Dan, U.S. Air Force, retired

[redc1c4]

B2431 wrote:
>
> >From: Peter Kemp
> >Date: 8/18/2004 3:14 PM Central Daylight Time
> >Message-id: >
> >
> >On 18 Aug 2004 18:34:35 GMT, (B2431) wrote:
> >
> >>>From: Peter Twydell
> >>>Date: 8/18/2004 2:15 PM Central Daylight Time
> >>>Message-id: >
> >>>
> >>>In article >, Eunometic
> > writes
> >>>>
> >>>>canard:
> >>>>An unfounded or false, deliberately misleading story.
> >>>>
> >>>>[French, duck, canard, probably from the phrase vendre un canard à
> >>>>moitié, to half-sell a duck, to swindle, from Old French quanart,
> >>>>duck, from caner, to cackle, of imitative origin.]
> >>>
> >>>So a base canard is a duck with a deep voice?
> >>>--
> >>>Peter
> >>>
> >>
> >>Stop, you are quacking me up over here.
> >
> >Eider know - one mention of canard and everyone is trying to get their
> >awful puns in. It's criminal I tell you!
> >
> >Peter Kemp
>
> Well, it is an aviation forum so we are just winging it. 'sides "aweful pun" is
> redundant.
>
> Dan, U.S. Air Force, retired

seems as if there's a whole flock of them to be made.....

redc1c4,
(not that mine will hold a feather to some of them %-)
--
"Enlisted men are stupid, but extremely cunning and sly, and bear
considerable watching."

Army Officer's Guide

[ArtKramr]

>Subject: Re: Nazi attempt to match the B-17
>From: redc1c4
>Date: 8/18/2004 1:31 PM Pacific Standard Time

>Enlisted men are stupid, but extremely cunning and sly, and bear
>considerable watching."
>
> Army Officer's Guide

Not in my copy of the Officer's guide. Nothing even close.


Arthur Kramer
344th BG 494th BS
England, France, Belgium, Holland, Germany
Visit my WW II B-26 website at:
http://www.coastcomp.com/artkramer

[machf]

On Tue, 17 Aug 2004 22:53:21 +0300, "Jukka O. Kauppinen"
> wrote:

>
>It's not the April 1st, wink wink.
>
Interesting subject for a modeling project, though...
Looks like the original picture was of a YB-40 instead of a B-17?

--
__________ ____---____ Marco Antonio Checa Funcke
\_________D /-/---_----' Santiago de Surco, Lima, Peru
_H__/_/ http://machf.tripod.com
'-_____|(

remove the "no_me_j." and ".sons.of" parts before replying

[Guy Alcala]

machf wrote:

<snip>

> Interesting subject for a modeling project, though...
> Looks like the original picture was of a YB-40 instead of a B-17?

Good catch.

Guy

[robert arndt]

"Richard Brooks" > wrote in message >...
> B2431 wrote:
> > During WW2 the Nazis were so impressed by the B-17 they designed
> > their own version. I think they only built 2. If memory serves it was
> > called the Ou812.
>
> Try Kg200 DL+XC fin No.124585 originally "Wulf Hound" of the 303rd Bomb
> Group at Molesworth, force landed December 1942!
>
> Richard.

That's what I originally would have posted about. Good for you for
posting first. More on the aircraft here:
http://www.warbirdsresourcegroup.org/LRG/b17fortress.html

Rob

p.s. As for canards in WW2 try the MiG-8 testbed and Kyushu Shinden
interceptor. There's also a few US fighter prototypes with canards and
of course the British Miles M.35. German designs incorporating canards
are too numerous to list here; try Luftwaffe Secret Projects Vols. 1-3
for references.

[robert arndt]

"Richard Brooks" > wrote in message >...
> B2431 wrote:
> > During WW2 the Nazis were so impressed by the B-17 they designed
> > their own version. I think they only built 2. If memory serves it was
> > called the Ou812.
>
> Try Kg200 DL+XC fin No.124585 originally "Wulf Hound" of the 303rd Bomb
> Group at Molesworth, force landed December 1942!
>
> Richard.

That's what I originally would have posted about. Good for you for
posting first. More on the aircraft here:
http://www.warbirdsresourcegroup.org/LRG/b17fortress.html

Rob

p.s. As for canards in WW2 try the MiG-8 testbed and Kyushu Shinden
interceptor. There's also a few US fighter prototypes with canards and
of course the British Miles M.35. German designs incorporating canards
are too numerous to list here; try Luftwaffe Secret Projects Vols. 1-3
for references.

[Steve Hix]

In article >,
Peter Twydell > wrote:

> In article >, Eunometic
> > writes
> >
> >canard:
> >An unfounded or false, deliberately misleading story.
> >
> >[French, duck, canard, probably from the phrase vendre un canard à
> >moitié, to half-sell a duck, to swindle, from Old French quanart,
> >duck, from caner, to cackle, of imitative origin.]
>
> So a base canard is a duck with a deep voice?

I thought it was the part used to make soup...

[DavidG35]

"ArtKramr" > wrote in message
...
> >Subject: Re: Nazi attempt to match the B-17
> >From: redc1c4
> >Date: 8/18/2004 1:31 PM Pacific Standard Time
>
> >Enlisted men are stupid, but extremely cunning and sly, and bear
> >considerable watching."
> >
> > Army Officer's Guide
>
> Not in my copy of the Officer's guide. Nothing even close.
>
>
> Arthur Kramer
> 344th BG 494th BS
> England, France, Belgium, Holland, Germany
> Visit my WW II B-26 website at:
> http://www.coastcomp.com/artkramer
>

That quote comes from the Army Officers Guide from 1897, I had the bumper
sticker with that same quote over my desk and always enjoyed the look from
all the officers that came to me needing something I had it for 4 years ( 3
squadron commanders, 30 flight commanders, 4 Ops officers) and never had a
negative remark on it. Guess it helped that I was also the squadron
scrounger and accomplished the impossible. That was in the 62nd FS at Luke,
I was the NCOIC of Life Support.
GMAN

[Krztalizer]

>
>I thought it was the part used to make soup...

I canardly believe you wrote that.

[Dave Kearton]

"Krztalizer" > wrote in message
...
| >
| >I thought it was the part used to make soup...
|
| I canardly believe you wrote that.



Two women on a cruise ship, getting to know each other ....



"So how did you pick this cruise ?" asked the first woman.


"Oh, my husband works for Cunard, so we picked it from a catalog"



"Well my husband works hard too - but I don't swear about it"







Cheers


Dave Kearton

[Peter Twydell]

In article >, Dave Kearton
> writes
>"Krztalizer" > wrote in message
...
>| >
>| >I thought it was the part used to make soup...
>|
>| I canardly believe you wrote that.
>
>
>
>Two women on a cruise ship, getting to know each other ....
>
>
>
>"So how did you pick this cruise ?" asked the first woman.
>
>
>"Oh, my husband works for Cunard, so we picked it from a catalog"
>
>
>
>"Well my husband works hard too - but I don't swear about it"
>
>
So it's schoolboy jokes time is it?


"What kind of car have you got?"

"A Rolls-Canardly."

"Never heard of it."

"I call it that because it rolls down one hill and canardly get up the
next."

--
Peter

Ying tong iddle-i po!

[ArtKramr]

>Subject: Re: Nazi attempt to match the B-17
>From: (Krztalizer)
>Date: 8/19/2004 1:07 AM Pacific Standard Time
>Message-id: >
>
>>
>>I thought it was the part used to make soup...
>
>I canardly believe you wrote that.
>

ROFL ! Love it.


Arthur Kramer
344th BG 494th BS
England, France, Belgium, Holland, Germany
Visit my WW II B-26 website at:
http://www.coastcomp.com/artkramer

[Richard Brooks]

robert arndt wrote:
> "Richard Brooks" > wrote in
> message >...
>> B2431 wrote:
>>> During WW2 the Nazis were so impressed by the B-17 they designed
>>> their own version. I think they only built 2. If memory serves it
>>> was called the Ou812.
>>
>> Try Kg200 DL+XC fin No.124585 originally "Wulf Hound" of the 303rd
>> Bomb Group at Molesworth, force landed December 1942!
>>
>> Richard.
>
> That's what I originally would have posted about. Good for you for
> posting first. More on the aircraft here:
> http://www.warbirdsresourcegroup.org/LRG/b17fortress.html
>
> Rob
>
It's not as cool as the Stirling with the tarpaulin over the nose section!
I'd have gone for a garden gate effect myself, or maybe a nice pair of draw
string curtains for the front gunner. ;-)


Richard.