On Wed, 28 Apr 2004 16:28:40 GMT, Greg Esres wrote:

I guess I'm not understanding the circumstance clearly, that might
lead someone to use that kind of information as an "OK to descend"
point.

When being vectored outside the FAF, ATC will say, "You're 4 miles
from x, turn left heading 210, maintain 2,500 until established,
cleared for the approach".

If you are between the IF and the FAF (as they said you were), then
the published altitude is 2,000. If you are outside the IF, the
published altitude remains 2,500.

If ATC says you're 4 miles outside the FAF, but you're really 4 miles
outside the IF, then if you descend based on that info, you've screwed
up.



OK, I understand now. I'm not an instructor, so I can only repeat back
what I learned years ago. I think my approach would be to emphasize to the
student the importance of situational awareness in all instances, and the
attitude that he is the one flying and responsible.

An intermediate segment is usually at least five miles long. So if all of
a sudden ATC places the pilot 5+ miles from where the pilot thinks he is,
that should trigger an immediate reaction to verify position.

I think students (and advanced pilots) sometimes fall into the trap of
allowing/expecting too much hand-holding from ATC. That may be more true
in certain areas of the country than others. So I think it's extremely
important to emphasize SA, responsibility, and the importance of being on a
published segment of the approach (and knowing exactly where you are)
before beginning a descent.


Ron (EPM) (N5843Q, Mooney M20E) (CP, ASEL, ASES, IA)