Wow! With barely 24 hours to go, "Soaring Community Consumer Warning" appears to be the most popular RAS posting in the month of March, with nearly 2,000 views! This proves once again that soaring may be minuscule compared to the real world but our controversies are truly world class.
There are two other threads with postings that also occurred this month (albeit on 1 March) but they both began well befo "Turn coordinator? How dare they!" (2,000+ views) and, of course, "FAI (IGC) rules for US Club Class Nationals - Petition" with an astounding 4,648 views!
I recall a time when the only real way of reaching the soaring community in this country was by paying for a classified ad in Soaring magazine--which required mailing (via the post) or electronically communicating (via a land line phone call to the SSA's receptionist -- hahaha) the ad copy 45 days or more in advance. Today you can list or accept a glider ad one day and wake up the next morning having been demonized and/or defended several times over on this forum.
It seems clear there's little money to be made in classified ads now. Entrepreneurs are using free ads to entice pilots to existing sites that sell soaring equipment or to build traffic for new sites, the owners of which presumably are motivated, in addition to public service, by at least the dream of someday monetizing the eyeballs.
I'll attempt to close this out with a few thoughts. If you're still reading this thread, obviously brevity isn't one of your criteria so I won't bother to apologize for carrying on.
1. When you have a successful business and a respected reputation, you're more likely to be able to impose terms and conditions on pilots who wish to list their gliders on your site.
2. Having a master "compiled list" of all glider ads would be pretty cool for those shopping for a used sailplane. Those trying to build such as list face at least three obstacles: (1) push back from the successful incumbents; (2) reluctance by pilots to jeopardize their ability to list on what's perceived to be the most popular site(s); and (3) some pesky legal issues.
To the latter point, "screen scraping" (lifting ads from one site to post on another) has been the subject of much legal skirmishing in the U.S. and abroad (Southwest Airlines has been particularly aggressive). There's no clear rule of thumb but it's my impression, ironically, that scraping ads from a site that requires exclusivity is treading on thinner ice.
3. Several have used the term "contract". I'm not a lawyer but the primary issue appears to be whether there's an agreement for the pilot to give up the right to list elsewhere in exchange for being allowed to list on the most popular site. If it were ever litigated, that would probably be considered compensation. Otherwise, there's no real contract here. You can complain that you were damaged by not being able to list your glider for free but you won't get much sympathy from the courts...or anyone else here, apparently.. Tough crowd.
4. Much has been made of Tim Mara's not disclosing his policy of requiring exclusivity (if, in fact, that is the case universally or in isolated cases). I'm speculating but among other reasons may be that it might look a little heavy handed (although I think most pilots would understand) and that it does tend to create a contractual relationship wherein Tim takes on certain obligations as well: e.g., that the site will be up at all times, that the ads will read as communicated to him, that the photos will be displayed attractively, and that ads will not be positioned badly (e.g., too deep in the listings, in the wrong category, or directly next to an identical glider being sold for much less money). If this were the music business, there'd be lawyers swarming all over us. Instead, the only intense scrutiny seems to be from those who detect a conspiracy within the Rules Committee to disenfranchise the Club Class or owners of iPhones and the like.
5. There are some IP (intellectual property) issues. I'm not an expert here, either, but to the extent that a site owner puts some time and effort into building a classified area and then creates/edits the ads in it, he/she probably has some IP rights that would be infringed upon by anyone attempting to use those ads elsewhere.
6. Speaking of creating and editing ads, I noted with interest the bafflement of one earnest software developer that Tim spurned his offer of free software consulting to improve the W&W site. To me, this is a classic example of an IT guy genuinely wanting to "help" the business guy by taking a well-understood, easily maintained application that does the job pretty well and replacing it with a site that, while demonstrably better, the user can no longer maintain without the IT's guy's help. Big businesses long ago admitted defeat and turned over their systems to IT specialists. The reaction of soaring equipment site owners who currently maintain them personally or with a trusted friend or family member (or teenager) aren't necessarily ready to change, especially when the help is offered by someone who's just created a competitive site. And I can't blame them. Nor should you, Bill.
7. There's lots of room for creative solutions to the problems people have raised. Tim could cut a deal with the other site owners. Or he could make sure pilots had to come to his site to get the best info on a glider, by requiring a click thru for the price or full info or by offering a small promotional item with gliders purchased off his site (e.g., a new ClearNav flight computer with CNv vario with all the accessories).
Perhaps out of the nearly 2,000 times this thread has been viewed will come a happy one that pleases everyone. Hey, it could happen!
Chip Bearden
ASW 24 "JB"
U.S.A.