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Thinking about buying a DG400
Hi everyone
I'm thinking about buying a DG400 and I'm looking for opinions. It would be my first self launching glider and I would appreciate any advise. I've seen the market and the price range between 50.00 and 56.000€ with about 140 to 200h engine hours. I've been reading these days a lot about the ship and I love it. The only problem that I see is the engine: it is not produced any more. What would happen if I have any problem and I couldn't find any spares? I would be useless as motorglider. Anything you can tell me about it is welcome Thank you! |
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Thinking about buying a DG400
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#3
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Thinking about buying a DG400
On Friday, May 26, 2017 at 9:22:01 AM UTC-7, wrote:
Hi everyone I'm thinking about buying a DG400 and I'm looking for opinions. It would be my first self launching glider and I would appreciate any advise. I've seen the market and the price range between 50.00 and 56.000€ with about 140 to 200h engine hours. I've been reading these days a lot about the ship and I love it. The only problem that I see is the engine: it is not produced any more. What would happen if I have any problem and I couldn't find any spares? I would be useless as motorglider. Anything you can tell me about it is welcome Thank you! The 400 is a great value in the high-performance motorglider sector. I owned one for over 10 years and flew it for 1500 hours. Unlike Dave, I had a steady stream of maintenance issues involving: 1. Ignition module and coil failure (I had to wind my own) 2. Prop mast mounting bolt breakage (which led to a US AD) 3. Starter motor failure (twice) 4. Carb problems (knowing how to troubleshoot is a must) 5. DEI failure 6. Uncommanded gear collapse (I added a positive gear lock) 7. Dive brake handle broke (while on takeoff roll) 8. Leaking fuel shutoff valve 9. Stuck extension motor brake Starting 2-cycle engines is a skill in its own right; every 400 pilot seems to have his own technique. DG added a primer circuit to ease the process, but this led to its own set of problems. You will want to join the DG Owners forum (not the DG Solo forum). You will also have to pay the DG "tax" to get support from the factory. Motorgliders are complex aircraft with their own peculiarities. I upgraded to an ASH26e and have been very impressed (and relieved) about their significantly better reliability as compared to the DG808, but they are not w/o their issues, too. DGs (both the 400s and 800s) are burdened by less than adequate battery capacity. This is why Dave emphasized getting a solar panel. The 26e is far superior in this regard, but it is 2x to 3x the price. I assume that you are a seasoned high-performance glider pilot. If not I would suggest getting that experience first in a pure glider. Getting dual instruction in a self-launching MG is problematic. Good luck! Tom |
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Thinking about buying a DG400
If you like (and have time) to work on planes as well as fly them, you'll likely find the support you need online to keep it flying. I'm speaking from the PIK 20E community which is active in helping each other with the same issues you would face.
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#5
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Thinking about buying a DG400
I think you will find that as DG actually built the 400 they
support it "free of charge" so there should be no DG "tax" to pay? Could easily be wrong though, ask your local Agent. Even if you do have to pay the "DG Tax" it's pittance compared to the overall ownership costs. My earlier post perhaps sort of implied total trouble free 400 ownership? But very few things did fail, the starter relay for one. Naturally the U/C collapsed on landing once, but that's normal, it's a special DG design feature. Generally I found the DG400 experience much kinder on the wallet than owning a DG808C. The reason I suggested joining the "Solo" forum was to illustrate that even the newer DG (and other) self launchers have their problems; for a balanced picture join the ASH26E group too. You'll soon see that there is no such thing as a totally reliable pylon powered self launcher. Dave Walsh |
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Thinking about buying a DG400
On Saturday, May 27, 2017 at 6:30:11 AM UTC-7, Dave Walsh wrote:
I think you will find that as DG actually built the 400 they support it "free of charge" so there should be no DG "tax" to pay? Could easily be wrong though, ask your local Agent. Even if you do have to pay the "DG Tax" it's pittance compared to the overall ownership costs. My earlier post perhaps sort of implied total trouble free 400 ownership? But very few things did fail, the starter relay for one. Naturally the U/C collapsed on landing once, but that's normal, it's a special DG design feature. Generally I found the DG400 experience much kinder on the wallet than owning a DG808C. The reason I suggested joining the "Solo" forum was to illustrate that even the newer DG (and other) self launchers have their problems; for a balanced picture join the ASH26E group too. You'll soon see that there is no such thing as a totally reliable pylon powered self launcher. Dave Walsh Well, Dave, you need to think again. DG calls the tax a "service agreement", which costs 425 euro to setup and 245 euro per year to maintain (for the affected models): https://www.dg-flugzeugbau.de/en/mai...rvice-contract Tom |
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Thinking about buying a DG400
On Friday, May 26, 2017 at 10:40:27 PM UTC-7, Bret Hess wrote:
If you like (and have time) to work on planes as well as fly them, you'll likely find the support you need online to keep it flying. I'm speaking from the PIK 20E community which is active in helping each other with the same issues you would face. If I were buying a 400 again I would probably factor in the cost of an engine overhaul to zero time it. In the US this will probably cost $4,000, give or take; can't say what it would cost in Europe, but owners on the forum would know. The annual maintain would probably be comparable to what it takes to keep the 808 flying. The maintenance itself is not complicated, but it does take some mechanical ability. Tom |
#8
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Thinking about buying a DG400
Thank you everyone for your help, I really appreciate it!
First of all, although I am a comerial pilot, my experience in pure sailplanes is very little (don´t reach 100h). Do you recommend me to wait to have more experience in pure sailplane before making the transition? Second point, I´m not very handy, I don´t have any type of experience in mechanics so any problem the plane has I would have to go to a workshop. Is that a big inconvenience? This problem would happen to me with any type of glider that I buy. I must make my mind that if I buy a glider I will speed more mony than the average because I wouldn´t do anything. Third and last point. I´ve also been thinking about buying a PIK20E. I´ve seen one with 1500H and 147 engine hours. It is cheapper than the DG400 but the drawback is that it has a 3000h limit which cannot be extended because the manufacturer no longer exist. This means that if i buy it, and in the future I want to change to a higher performance glider, it would be very difficult to sell it (or simply impossible as it get closer to the 3000h). Another negative is that if it need more maintenance that other plane it wouldn't be a good choice for me because as I've set before, I don't have any experience with mechanics. Alfonso |
#9
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Thinking about buying a DG400
On Sunday, May 28, 2017 at 6:59:29 AM UTC-4, wrote:
First of all, although I am a comerial pilot, my experience in pure sailplanes is very little (don´t reach 100h). Do you recommend me to wait to have more experience in pure sailplane before making the transition? YES. To be able to safely focus on engine management (and especially when things go wrong), flying the glider must be completely automatic. Regardless of power experience, you are not at this point with less than 100 hours. Second point, I´m not very handy, I don´t have any type of experience in mechanics so any problem the plane has I would have to go to a workshop. Is that a big inconvenience? YES. Identify someone nearby with extensive experience maintaining the type you expect to buy. Hint: There isn't likely to be anybody... And maintenance of these machines by folks not intimately familiar with the type often goes very badly. This problem would happen to me with any type of glider that I buy. NO. Any motor-glider will require MUCH more (and more specialized) maintenance as compared to a non-motorized glider. Hope that helps, Best Regards, Dave "YO" (multiple offender, 2000 hrs in motor-gliders) |
#10
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Thinking about buying a DG400
On 27/05/2017 23:15, Dave Walsh wrote:
I think you will find that as DG actually built the 400 they support it "free of charge" so there should be no DG "tax" to pay? Could easily be wrong though, ask your local Agent. Even if you do have to pay the "DG Tax" it's pittance compared to the overall ownership costs. Yes. You're wrong. The 400 was built by Glaser-Dirks and you'll pay the tax. The DG-800A and even my (early) 800B pays it. The cutoff date is around 1994-6 for DGs. My earlier post perhaps sort of implied total trouble free 400 ownership? But very few things did fail, the starter relay for one. Naturally the U/C collapsed on landing once, but that's normal, it's a special DG design feature. Generally I found the DG400 experience much kinder on the wallet than owning a DG808C. The reason I suggested joining the "Solo" forum was to illustrate that even the newer DG (and other) self launchers have their problems; for a balanced picture join the ASH26E group too. You'll soon see that there is no such thing as a totally reliable pylon powered self launcher. Dave Walsh -- GC |
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