Thinking about buying a Zodiac XLi

After years away from it, I'm in a position where I can think about getting
an airplane. I want to be able to travel with it, not just fly around the
patch. I'm a PP-ASEL with about 170 hours in 172/Warrior/Tiger-class
aircraft. I'd love to build, but my work has me away from home constantly,
so there's no way I could commit the needed time. I also have medical issues
that will require a special issuance medical; I've been thinking about
getting that for the past 6 months, but haven't been able to do anything
about it. I figure I'll need 5-10 hours of dual to get back in the groove.

All of that has me convinced I should buy an SLSA that will serve as an IFR
platform when I do deal with the medical. There are lots of SLSAs out there,
but only a precious few that can be flown legally IFR (at least I think
that's the case), with TSOd instruments and certificated engines, not to
mention capable avionics.

In addition, I think I want a metal airframe. Composites are great, but what
happens when it collects hangar damage? Since it's a factory aircraft, I
have to have an A&P do the repair, and how many A&Ps do composite repairs?
Especially since I live in the middle of nowhere, relatively speaking
(Fairmont, MN).

Finally, and for many of the same reasons, I's prefer an American-built
aircraft. The imports look good, but how many mechanics in rural Minnesota
can work on them? How long does it take to get parts that, for an American
aircraft, could be bought and shipped overnight from any of a dozen
suppliers?

So far, I've only seen one SLSA that fits this profile: the AMD Zodiac XLi.
There are a bunch of them out there that have been homebuilt; I don't know
how many completed ones AMD has sold. I like everything I've read so far. Of
course, that's just reading, not flying. I'm planning to visit the AMD
factory next week, look the place over, then look closely at the aircraft
and take a demo flight. What should I look for? Ask about? Try during the
demo?

What other aircraft should I look at? Am I full of prunes in my thinking
somewhere?
--
Jay Maynard, K5ZC http://www.conmicro.com
http://jmaynard.livejournal.com http://www.tronguy.net
http://www.hercules-390.org (Yes, that's me!)
Buy Hercules stuff at http://www.cafepress.com/hercules-390

Jay Maynard wrote:
After years away from it, I'm in a position where I can think about getting
an airplane. I want to be able to travel with it, not just fly around the
patch. I'm a PP-ASEL with about 170 hours in 172/Warrior/Tiger-class
aircraft. I'd love to build, but my work has me away from home constantly,
so there's no way I could commit the needed time. I also have medical issues
that will require a special issuance medical; I've been thinking about
getting that for the past 6 months, but haven't been able to do anything
about it. I figure I'll need 5-10 hours of dual to get back in the groove.

All of that has me convinced I should buy an SLSA that will serve as an IFR
platform when I do deal with the medical. There are lots of SLSAs out there,
but only a precious few that can be flown legally IFR (at least I think
that's the case), with TSOd instruments and certificated engines, not to
mention capable avionics.

In addition, I think I want a metal airframe. Composites are great, but what
happens when it collects hangar damage? Since it's a factory aircraft, I
have to have an A&P do the repair, and how many A&Ps do composite repairs?
Especially since I live in the middle of nowhere, relatively speaking
(Fairmont, MN).

Finally, and for many of the same reasons, I's prefer an American-built
aircraft. The imports look good, but how many mechanics in rural Minnesota
can work on them? How long does it take to get parts that, for an American
aircraft, could be bought and shipped overnight from any of a dozen
suppliers?

So far, I've only seen one SLSA that fits this profile: the AMD Zodiac XLi.
There are a bunch of them out there that have been homebuilt; I don't know
how many completed ones AMD has sold. I like everything I've read so far. Of
course, that's just reading, not flying. I'm planning to visit the AMD
factory next week, look the place over, then look closely at the aircraft
and take a demo flight. What should I look for? Ask about? Try during the
demo?

What other aircraft should I look at? Am I full of prunes in my thinking
somewhere?

I'm building an XL and have flown in three different 601s including the
Zenith demonstrator. It is a fun plane to fly with enough speed to be
used X-C travel. You don't mention where you are but there are several
601XLs being used as trainers at various FBOs. Look into that for your
dual and that should help you make your decision.

As far as the medical goes remember if you try for an fail to get your
special issuance you are grounded as far as LSA is concerned. So, if all
of your flying is going to fall under the LSA rules you might want to
think about not taking the chance of screwing that up. As a PPL sans
medical the only privileges you will be giving up are night and higher
than 10K feet.

On 2008-01-04, Gig601XLBuilder wrote:
I'm building an XL and have flown in three different 601s including the
Zenith demonstrator. It is a fun plane to fly with enough speed to be
used X-C travel. You don't mention where you are but there are several
601XLs being used as trainers at various FBOs. Look into that for your
dual and that should help you make your decision.

I'm in Fairmont, MN (FRM), 120 miles southwest of Minneapolis. The closest
school using the Zodiac appears to be in Holland, MI, a long day's drive
away. I suspect I'll be getting transition training from or through the
folks at AMD.

As far as the medical goes remember if you try for an fail to get your
special issuance you are grounded as far as LSA is concerned. So, if all
of your flying is going to fall under the LSA rules you might want to
think about not taking the chance of screwing that up. As a PPL sans
medical the only privileges you will be giving up are night and higher
than 10K feet.

This is why I'm going with an SLSA. I'll worry about the medical later, and
only if I know I'll get it. If I do, then I want whatever aircraft I get to
be able to serve me well with the upgraded privileges, which is why I'm
looking at the XLi. I don't want to have to sell the aircraft in order to
take advantage of the medical.
--
Jay Maynard, K5ZC http://www.conmicro.com
http://jmaynard.livejournal.com http://www.tronguy.net
http://www.hercules-390.org (Yes, that's me!)
Buy Hercules stuff at http://www.cafepress.com/hercules-390

There is one for rent at my local airport (LNA) I have checked out in and
used for several hours. There are things I really like about it, and things I
don't. The superior visibility alone is almost worth it to me...almost. On
balance, I have happily gone back to the rental Cessnas. Be sure to get all of
those 5 or 10 hours in a Zodiac, and then you will know if it is the plane for
you. A few trips around the patch with a demo pilot won't do it.

I have reluctantly come to a conclusion about LSAs as our regulations
presently exist in the USA: If you want a plane with a bulletproof engine that
any small-plane A&P can fix, then you want an 0-200. If you want a full-tank,
fill-both-seats cross-country machine, then you need something powered by an
engine lighter than an 0-200; probably something like a 912. There is no free
lunch.

Where I fly, the Zodiac is the only rental that is not routinely sent out
with the tanks full.

Vaughn

On 2008-01-05, Vaughn Simon wrote:
There is one for rent at my local airport (LNA) I have checked out in and
used for several hours. There are things I really like about it, and things I
don't. The superior visibility alone is almost worth it to me...almost. On
balance, I have happily gone back to the rental Cessnas. Be sure to get all of
those 5 or 10 hours in a Zodiac, and then you will know if it is the plane for
you. A few trips around the patch with a demo pilot won't do it.

Okkay, so what don't you like about it? It's going to be tough for me to get
several hours in one.

I have reluctantly come to a conclusion about LSAs as our regulations
presently exist in the USA: If you want a plane with a bulletproof engine that
any small-plane A&P can fix, then you want an 0-200. If you want a full-tank,
fill-both-seats cross-country machine, then you need something powered by an
engine lighter than an 0-200; probably something like a 912. There is no free
lunch.

Hm. With a useful load of 550 pounds, and a 30-gallon tank, and me and my
roommate together weighing 350 pounds, that leaves 20 pounds of luggage,
enough for a weekend. What am I missing?

Where I fly, the Zodiac is the only rental that is not routinely sent out
with the tanks full.

Has it got tabs?
--
Jay Maynard, K5ZC http://www.conmicro.com
http://jmaynard.livejournal.com http://www.tronguy.net
http://www.hercules-390.org (Yes, that's me!)
Buy Hercules stuff at http://www.cafepress.com/hercules-390

"Jay Maynard" wrote in message
...
On 2008-01-05, Vaughn Simon wrote:
There is one for rent at my local airport (LNA) I have checked out in and
used for several hours. There are things I really like about it, and things
I
don't. The superior visibility alone is almost worth it to me...almost. On
balance, I have happily gone back to the rental Cessnas. Be sure to get all
of
those 5 or 10 hours in a Zodiac, and then you will know if it is the plane
for
you. A few trips around the patch with a demo pilot won't do it.

Okkay, so what don't you like about it?

In general, the thing seems fragile and "fussy" to me. The seat is way too
uncomfortable for more than local flying. (It feels like the wing spar is
hitting you in the middle of the back) The canopy (which gives great visibility)
is a PITA. It almost takes two people to close it because you must spring it
into shape to get it to close on both latches. In my personal opinion (I come
from a glider and Cessna background so take this with a grain of salt) the thing
just needs more wing. It hates to climb and loves to come back down.

I like the control stick and the sensitive controls, but others hate it for
just that reason.

It's going to be tough for me to get
several hours in one.

How about a nice Florida vacation? PBFT has a nice Zodiac for rent in the
Palm Beach area. The flying weather is great during the winter.


I have reluctantly come to a conclusion about LSAs as our regulations
presently exist in the USA: If you want a plane with a bulletproof engine
that
any small-plane A&P can fix, then you want an 0-200. If you want a
full-tank,
fill-both-seats cross-country machine, then you need something powered by an
engine lighter than an 0-200; probably something like a 912. There is no
free
lunch.

Hm. With a useful load of 550 pounds, and a 30-gallon tank, and me and my
roommate together weighing 350 pounds, that leaves 20 pounds of luggage,
enough for a weekend. What am I missing?

You are lucky, your average pair of USA pilots runs more like 380 pounds.
Also, just my flight bag can weigh 20 pounds. There are also other useful
weight-robbing things that you may not have considered, like engine oil and
various accessories.


Where I fly, the Zodiac is the only rental that is not routinely sent out
with the tanks full.

Has it got tabs?

No, and because of the shape and tilt of the tanks it is hard to tell how
much is in them. The gauges on the Zodiac seem to be excellent, particularly
compared to the POS in Cessnas. I haven't had enough cross-country in the
Zodiac to know if they can truly be trusted. The over-center gas caps are a
PITA.

I don't mean to sound negative on the Zodiac, there are many things I like
about it. Just be sure to invest the time to properly shop around before making
such a big investment.

Vaughn

On 2008-01-05, Vaughn Simon wrote:
I don't mean to sound negative on the Zodiac, there are many things I like
about it. Just be sure to invest the time to properly shop around before making
such a big investment.

Betcherass. That's why I'm looking for all of the opinions I can get.
--
Jay Maynard, K5ZC http://www.conmicro.com
http://jmaynard.livejournal.com http://www.tronguy.net
http://www.hercules-390.org (Yes, that's me!)
Buy Hercules stuff at http://www.cafepress.com/hercules-390

Vaughn Simon wrote:

(It feels like the wing spar is
hitting you in the middle of the back)

Strange because the Spar is under your knees.

The canopy (which gives great visibility)
is a PITA. It almost takes two people to close it because you must spring it
into shape to get it to close on both latches. In my personal opinion (I come
from a glider and Cessna background so take this with a grain of salt) the thing
just needs more wing. It hates to climb and loves to come back down.



You think it sucks to close you ought to try building it.


I like the control stick and the sensitive controls, but others hate it for
just that reason.


Are they making any of the factory built LSAs with dual stick?

On 2008-01-07, Gig601XLBuilder wrote:
Vaughn Simon wrote:
I like the control stick and the sensitive controls, but others hate it for
just that reason.
Are they making any of the factory built LSAs with dual stick?

It's listed as a standard option in the current price sheet.
--
Jay Maynard, K5ZC http://www.conmicro.com
http://jmaynard.livejournal.com http://www.tronguy.net
http://www.hercules-390.org (Yes, that's me!)
Buy Hercules stuff at http://www.cafepress.com/hercules-390

"Gig601XLBuilder" wrote in message
...
Strange because the Spar is under your knees.

OK, then SOMETHING hits you right in the middle of the back.

You think it sucks to close you ought to try building it.

I have no doubt! Even the simplest canopies are a bear to build. At least
the Zodiac canopy is hinged in the front. I am a "glider guy" & I can tell you
confidently that any other configuration is an accident waiting to happen.

Are they making any of the factory built LSAs with dual stick?

Without dual controls, how would you use it as a trainer? ...or even safely
check out a rental pilot?

Vaughn