SSA Copyright

I had a look at the on-line SSA Sailplane Directory and have to say it
looks like a very nice addition to our information sources. I noticed
that there were no pictures of the ASW-28 and was thinking of
submitting some.

I then found the conditions for posting pictures:

"It is a condition of submission to and acceptance by The Soaring
Society of America, Inc. (SSA) that all material submitted for
consideration and/or publication (including photographs and text),
whether submitted as a result of a request by the SSA or not, is
submitted on the basis that the SSA has the right, without payment or
compensation, to reproduce and sell or distribute freely, and to
authorize third parties who are engaged in the dissemination of
information relating to the sport of soaring to reproduce and sell or
distribute freely, such material. By submitting such material to the
SSA for consideration and/or publication the submitter represents that
they hold the right to grant a release of copyright in respect of such
material. If the submitted material is clearly identified with the
name of its creator suitable attribution of its source will be given.
It is a condition of submission to and acceptance by The Soaring
Society of America, Inc. (SSA) that all material submitted for
consideration and/or publication (including photographs and text),
whether submitted as a result of a request by the SSA or not, is
submitted on the basis that the SSA has the right, without payment or
compensation, to reproduce and sell or distribute freely, and to
authorize third parties who are engaged in the dissemination of
information relating to the sport of soaring to reproduce and sell or
distribute freely, such material. By submitting such material to the
SSA for consideration and/or publication the submitter represents that
they hold the right to grant a release of copyright in respect of such
material. If the submitted material is clearly identified with the
name of its creator suitable attribution of its source will be given.
"

This is the same condition as for pictures submitted to the magazine
or to the calendar. It is the reason I have not submitted any of my
pictures to either, and also the reason I will not submit any of mine
to the Sailplane Directory.

If I submit a photo to SSA I think I should be allowed to specify what
it will be used for and that any other use should require my approval.
Under no circumstances should I be required to give up the copyright
to my work.

Does this copyright policy bother anyone else? If not, why?

Andy

On Dec 22, 11:48*am, Andy wrote:
I had a look at the on-line SSA Sailplane Directory and have to say it
looks like a very nice addition to our information sources. *I noticed
that there were no pictures of the ASW-28 and was thinking of
submitting some.

I then found the conditions for posting pictures:

"It is a condition of submission to and acceptance by The Soaring
Society of America, Inc. (SSA) that all material submitted for
consideration and/or publication (including photographs and text),
whether submitted as a result of a request by the SSA or not, is
submitted on the basis that the SSA has the right, without payment or
compensation, to reproduce and sell or distribute freely, and to
authorize third parties who are engaged in the dissemination of
information relating to the sport of soaring to reproduce and sell or
distribute freely, such material. By submitting such material to the
SSA for consideration and/or publication the submitter represents that
they hold the right to grant a release of copyright in respect of such
material. If the submitted material is clearly identified with the
name of its creator suitable attribution of its source will be given.
It is a condition of submission to and acceptance by The Soaring
Society of America, Inc. (SSA) that all material submitted for
consideration and/or publication (including photographs and text),
whether submitted as a result of a request by the SSA or not, is
submitted on the basis that the SSA has the right, without payment or
compensation, to reproduce and sell or distribute freely, and to
authorize third parties who are engaged in the dissemination of
information relating to the sport of soaring to reproduce and sell or
distribute freely, such material. By submitting such material to the
SSA for consideration and/or publication the submitter represents that
they hold the right to grant a release of copyright in respect of such
material. If the submitted material is clearly identified with the
name of its creator suitable attribution of its source will be given.
"

This is the same condition as for pictures submitted to the magazine
or to the calendar. *It is the reason I have not submitted any of my
pictures to either, and also the reason I will not submit any of mine
to the Sailplane Directory.

If I submit a photo to SSA I think I should be allowed to specify what
it will be used for and that any other use should require my approval.
Under no circumstances should I be required to give up the copyright
to my work.

Does this copyright policy bother anyone else? If not, why?

Andy

Managing third party copyright content like this would be complex and
would be a significant distraction and expense. What item can be used
for what and when, in what form and resolution, with what
acknowledgment/clearance is required for each end every item. Managing
all that is complex and costly and the downside of an aggrieved
copyright owner coming back and seeking compensation are a risk. This
is not unusual for unsolicited articles/content. I would not want to
see my SSA fees wasted on managing complex copyright issues--and I am
quite OK knowing there may be some nice content we don't see because
of this. For key important/solicited articles I assume the editor
would be open to negotiate copyright assignment terms (e.g. for use in
the magazine and reproductions of the magazine only).

And strictly you are not "giving up copyright" on your work, you are
assigning rights to the SSA and others downstream for use related to
the sport of soaring. You retain all other existing copyright owner
rights.

Darryl

On 12/22/2010 11:48 AM, Andy wrote:
I had a look at the on-line SSA Sailplane Directory and have to say it
looks like a very nice addition to our information sources. I noticed
that there were no pictures of the ASW-28 and was thinking of
submitting some.

I then found the conditions for posting pictures:

"It is a condition of submission to and acceptance by The Soaring
Society of America, Inc. (SSA) that all material submitted for
consideration and/or publication (including photographs and text),
whether submitted as a result of a request by the SSA or not, is
submitted on the basis that the SSA has the right, without payment

snip

material. If the submitted material is clearly identified with the
name of its creator suitable attribution of its source will be given.
"

This is the same condition as for pictures submitted to the magazine
or to the calendar. It is the reason I have not submitted any of my
pictures to either, and also the reason I will not submit any of mine
to the Sailplane Directory.

If I submit a photo to SSA I think I should be allowed to specify what
it will be used for and that any other use should require my approval.
Under no circumstances should I be required to give up the copyright
to my work.

Does this copyright policy bother anyone else? If not, why?

It doesn't bother me at all. I have had pictures in the calendar, and I
have had pictures in the magazine, and I have never regretted it. I look
forward to having more published both ways. In fact, I have had a
picture in the Sailplane Directory since the 1997 print edition, and
it's now in the online Directory. I'm pleased about that.

For the purposes of the Sailplane Directory, exceptional pictures that I
might want to use elsewhere are not required; I have lots of pictures of
that would be useful to the directory; and I can always make more.
Surely, not every picture you have is worth retaining the exclusive
copyright for it, so I encourage you to find some you can share to
further the sport.

I think the online Directory is already a good resource, but of course,
I already have some ideas for making it better. I might let the crew
responsible rest over Christmas before I pester them...

--
Eric Greenwell - Washington State, USA (change ".netto" to ".us" to
email me)

On Dec 22, 12:56*pm, Eric Greenwell wrote:
On 12/22/2010 11:48 AM, Andy wrote:

I had a look at the on-line SSA Sailplane Directory and have to say it
looks like a very nice addition to our information sources. *I noticed
that there were no pictures of the ASW-28 and was thinking of
submitting some.

I then found the conditions for posting pictures:

"It is a condition of submission to and acceptance by The Soaring
Society of America, Inc. (SSA) that all material submitted for
consideration and/or publication (including photographs and text),
whether submitted as a result of a request by the SSA or not, is
submitted on the basis that the SSA has the right, without payment

snip

material. If the submitted material is clearly identified with the
name of its creator suitable attribution of its source will be given.
"

This is the same condition as for pictures submitted to the magazine
or to the calendar. *It is the reason I have not submitted any of my
pictures to either, and also the reason I will not submit any of mine
to the Sailplane Directory.

If I submit a photo to SSA I think I should be allowed to specify what
it will be used for and that any other use should require my approval.
Under no circumstances should I be required to give up the copyright
to my work.

Does this copyright policy bother anyone else? If not, why?

It doesn't bother me at all. I have had pictures in the calendar, and I
have had pictures in the magazine, and I have never regretted it. I look
forward to having more published both ways. In fact, I have had a
picture in the Sailplane Directory since the 1997 *print edition, and
it's now in the online Directory. I'm pleased about that.

For the purposes of the Sailplane Directory, exceptional pictures that I
might want to use elsewhere are not required; I have lots of pictures of
that would be useful to the directory; and I can always make more.
Surely, not every picture you have is worth retaining the exclusive
copyright for it, so I encourage you to find some you can share to
further the sport.

I think the online Directory is already a good resource, but of course,
I already have some ideas for making it better. I might let the crew
responsible rest over Christmas before I pester them...

--
Eric Greenwell - Washington State, USA (change ".netto" to ".us" to
email me)

I would not submit any photos that I thought had any value other than
for the SSA. You might find you were in violation of your own
copyright if you tried to later use the photo in an article for
International Gliding Magazine, for example... Many of these picture
sharing sites have similar draconian releases, including facebook. So
I won't use them either.

Matt

On Dec 22, 4:20*pm, "Matt Herron Jr." wrote:
On Dec 22, 12:56*pm, Eric Greenwell wrote:



On 12/22/2010 11:48 AM, Andy wrote:

[snip]

I would not submit any photos that I thought had any value other than
for the SSA. *You might find you were in violation of your own
copyright if you tried to later use the photo in an article for
International Gliding Magazine, for example... *Many of these picture
sharing sites have similar draconian releases, including facebook. *So
I won't use them either.

Matt

What are you reading? There is no way anything in that agreement
removes other existing rights you have as copyright owner. You are
still the copyright owner, you can do whatever you want with the same
image etc. You are assigning rights to use not assigning the original
copyright.

That is not to say there are no concerns with these types of
agreements and surprising uses may not have imagined when you assigned
over permission to use -- although the SSA agreement at least clearly
restricts this to soaring related things.

Darryl
(And if it shows, yes I've done too many source code licensing
agreements...)

On Dec 22, 5:23*pm, Darryl Ramm wrote:
On Dec 22, 4:20*pm, "Matt Herron Jr." wrote:

On Dec 22, 12:56*pm, Eric Greenwell wrote:

On 12/22/2010 11:48 AM, Andy wrote:

[snip]

I would not submit any photos that I thought had any value other than
for the SSA. *You might find you were in violation of your own
copyright if you tried to later use the photo in an article for
International Gliding Magazine, for example... *Many of these picture
sharing sites have similar draconian releases, including facebook. *So
I won't use them either.

Matt

What are you reading? There is no way anything in that agreement
removes other existing rights you have as copyright owner. You are
still the copyright owner, you can do whatever you want with the same
image etc. You are assigning rights to use not assigning the original
copyright.

That is not to say there are no concerns with these types of
agreements and surprising uses may not have imagined when you assigned
over permission to use -- although the SSA agreement at least clearly
restricts this to soaring related things.

Darryl
(And if it shows, yes I've done too many source code licensing
agreements...)

" By submitting such material to the
SSA for consideration and/or publication the submitter represents
that
they hold the right to grant a release of copyright in respect of
such
material."

release of copyright means I give up my rights to the material, not
that I grant specific use. I am sure you and the lawyers could argue
about it all day, but in my opinion, sending pictures to SSA renders
them worthless to me.

On 12/22/2010 6:43 PM, Matt Herron Jr. wrote:
On Dec 22, 5:23 pm, Darryl wrote:


What are you reading? There is no way anything in that agreement
removes other existing rights you have as copyright owner. You are
still the copyright owner, you can do whatever you want with the same
image etc. You are assigning rights to use not assigning the original
copyright.

That is not to say there are no concerns with these types of
agreements and surprising uses may not have imagined when you assigned
over permission to use -- although the SSA agreement at least clearly
restricts this to soaring related things.

Darryl
(And if it shows, yes I've done too many source code licensing
agreements...)

" By submitting such material to the
SSA for consideration and/or publication the submitter represents
that
they hold the right to grant a release of copyright in respect of
such
material."

release of copyright means I give up my rights to the material, not
that I grant specific use. I am sure you and the lawyers could argue
about it all day, but in my opinion, sending pictures to SSA renders
them worthless to me.


The quoted language does not say that you are releasing your copyright,
but only that you have the right to do so. The SSA wants to make sure
that you are not giving them a photo that belongs to someone other than you.

I agree with Darryl.

On Dec 22, 1:56*pm, Eric Greenwell wrote:
On 12/22/2010 11:48 AM, Andy wrote:

I had a look at the on-line SSA Sailplane Directory and have to say it
looks like a very nice addition to our information sources. *I noticed
that there were no pictures of the ASW-28 and was thinking of
submitting some.

I then found the conditions for posting pictures:

"It is a condition of submission to and acceptance by The Soaring
Society of America, Inc. (SSA) that all material submitted for
consideration and/or publication (including photographs and text),
whether submitted as a result of a request by the SSA or not, is
submitted on the basis that the SSA has the right, without payment

snip

material. If the submitted material is clearly identified with the
name of its creator suitable attribution of its source will be given.
"

This is the same condition as for pictures submitted to the magazine
or to the calendar. *It is the reason I have not submitted any of my
pictures to either, and also the reason I will not submit any of mine
to the Sailplane Directory.

If I submit a photo to SSA I think I should be allowed to specify what
it will be used for and that any other use should require my approval.
Under no circumstances should I be required to give up the copyright
to my work.

Does this copyright policy bother anyone else? If not, why?

It doesn't bother me at all. I have had pictures in the calendar, and I
have had pictures in the magazine, and I have never regretted it. I look
forward to having more published both ways. In fact, I have had a
picture in the Sailplane Directory since the 1997 *print edition, and
it's now in the online Directory. I'm pleased about that.

For the purposes of the Sailplane Directory, exceptional pictures that I
might want to use elsewhere are not required; I have lots of pictures of
that would be useful to the directory; and I can always make more.
Surely, not every picture you have is worth retaining the exclusive
copyright for it, so I encourage you to find some you can share to
further the sport.

I think the online Directory is already a good resource, but of course,
I already have some ideas for making it better. I might let the crew
responsible rest over Christmas before I pester them...

--
Eric Greenwell - Washington State, USA (change ".netto" to ".us" to
email me)

Bob's off work over Christmas into early January, pester him.

Frank Whiteley

On Dec 22, 6:23*pm, Darryl Ramm wrote:

That is not to say there are no concerns with these types of
agreements and surprising uses may not have imagined when you assigned
over permission to use -- although the SSA agreement at least clearly
restricts this to soaring related things.

What part of the agreement says that? The "related to the sport of
soaring" is a descriptor of any third party.

"and to authorize third parties who are engaged in the dissemination
of
information relating to the sport of soaring to reproduce and sell or
distribute freely, such material."

The agreement appears to impose no restriction at all on what such a
third party may do with the material and, for that matter, it imposes
no restriction on what SSA may do with the material.

While the agreement may not specifically say I give up my copyright it
does allow the unrestricted use of my material for any purpose and
without my permission. What value is the copyright that you think I
retain?

Andy

On Dec 23, 10:24*am, Darryl Ramm wrote:

"related to the sport of soaring" says just that. What does that
*really* mean -- like anything else it's what a court would decide.

You seem to have completely missed the point I was making. The phrase
"related to the sport of soaring" does not describe the purpose for
which the work may be used. The phrase "related to the sport of
soaring" describes the type of third part that SSA feels they can pass
the material on to.

Please read it again -

""and to authorize third parties who are engaged in the dissemination
of
information relating to the sport of soaring to reproduce and sell or
distribute freely, such material."

Andy