bought me an aeroplane

Ah, well, hey, it's done now. I've got one! A nice '79 152 with a
decent mid-time engine. Well, not entirely done yet but close. Here's
the story.

After I decided to bail on the 150 I had the pre-buy on I was itchy (not
a great thing, I know) to find myself an airplane. I pored over all the
online ads again and called on a few. Most promising prospect was down
in Kankakee, IL, about 2 hours from me. Sounded good on papar: 7500TT,
1200 SMOH (overhaul done in '98 - I learned to ask about time since
overhaul!), typical otherwise. $19.9K, just reduced from $22K. All
logs. Flight school plane. Called and got more details and a bunch of
pics sent. Owned by a doctor that runs the flight school.

I decided to take a drive down there. Here comes the part where the
group is going to yell at me (I understand - it's Ok). I felt that I
learned a lot watching the pre-buy on that 150. The guy on the phone
had told me he'd make one of his mechanics available to me to do
whatever I wanted at no charge. So, I planned on going down there,
flying the thing, having the mechanic pull all the panels and let me
look inside, do a compression test, cut the filter, and look behind the
panel. I decided there could at least be a chance I'd be satisfied
enough to buy that day, so I came with a cashier's check made out to me
that I could sign-over if I so decided.

So, get down there and look over the plane. The owner had warned me the
paint was not great, but there's nothing wrong with it. Minor dings &
scratches. I was never out to buy a beauty contest winner. I had no
problem with the P&I (seats were just recovered). I started by going
through the logs. I spent a good hour. Nothing out of the ordinary -
except maybe that the logs themselves were not in good condition, with
loose pages and stains all over. Showed major of the engine in '98 as
stated, top overhaul 400 hours after that with 4 recon Lyc jugs,
annualed 1/04, good compression numbers all over. Had tires, break
discs, windshield replaced at annual.

I was pleased at what I saw behind all the panels - essentially no
corrosion to speak of, and cables & pulleys looked well-lubed. My
mechanic had explained that mild corrosion (the white powder) can almost
always be stopped dead with that spray-on corrotion treatment, but there
was not even more than just a hint of that in a couple places anywhere.
It was shiny aluminum or, in some places, dirty/greasy aluminum - but
no corrosion.

Before going into the compression check I wanted to do a runup. Oh, one
big problem: no flying today. The wind was unreal - they recorded a
gust of 41 knots. That was a big bummer. I was sure I was not going to
buy it without flying. Anyway, the static runup gave 2200 RPM. Now, I
complained about that, citing that the POH specifies 2280-2380 as
normal. We were at 600' msl. I was told the tach could be off, etc.
Who knows. We'll see how it flies. It sounded normal to me - it
sounded fine.

Compression checks turned out mid to high 60s - which isn't great. I
was told by the mechanic that it is more typical to do them hot - the
cylinders were barely warm to the touch after the brief runup. It makes
sense to me that the numbers are going to be higher with a hot engine,
with the rings properly expanded.

I'll stop here and note that this reads like I very well could have been
being taken by this bunch - the owner, the friend/broker, the mechanics.
I feel I am a pretty good judge of people. The mechanic struck me as
honest and disinterested. The owner's got litterally millions of
dollars worth of aircraft in the hangar were sitting in - a pristine
Stearman bipe, a Yak-52, others. Is he going to try to screw somebody
badly on a $20,000 152? Anyway, as we'll see in a bit, I did basically
buy it but I had a contract written with a complete, no string attached
"out" for me: when I come down to pick it up, I get a test flight, with
the option to cancel the deal for any reason I see fit.

So, anyway, that was the deal. The airplane looked reasonable, I know
there isn't a corrosion problem, there's full logs and I know it's been
maintained, I know the engine has a fresh overhaul and lots of time
left, and I have an out anyway! I signed the contract (which I
dictated, and yes I had to fight a bit for that out clause), gave them
the check, took the logs, and went home. I will probably pick her up on
Tuesday. I have already decided to demand another compression check
after the test flight, and if the numbers don't register at least
slightly higher than may cancel the deal for me. I also plan to talk to
my mechanic at length about compression numbers before heading down.

As I said I payed $19.9. VREF puts the value at $22.6. I tried
negotiating further, of course, but was told that the current price was
firm - and that someone from Fargo, ND was possibly coming to look at
the plane that very day. And that got my attention, because a flight
school in Fargo had just bought the run-out 152 my FBO was selling the
day before! They came while I was waiting for that 150 to arrive. So,
if he'd been BSing to worry me about the plane being sold to another, he
couldn't have picked a better city. (I took this, actually, as another
confirmation of my assessment of this operation as "kosher".)

So, congragulate me or call me a fool - your choice. :-)

~Paul

P.S. The route home takes me directly over ORD - O'Hare - I mean within
1 nm of directly over the field. Well, we'll see how much I get
vectored around! Maybe it's just better to cirumvent the bravo altogether.

"Paul Folbrecht" wrote in message
k.net...
Ah, well, hey, it's done now. I've got one! A nice '79 152 with a
decent mid-time engine. Well, not entirely done yet but close. Here's
the story.

After I decided to bail on the 150 I had the pre-buy on I was itchy (not
a great thing, I know) to find myself an airplane. I pored over all the
online ads again and called on a few. Most promising prospect was down
in Kankakee, IL, about 2 hours from me. Sounded good on papar: 7500TT,
1200 SMOH (overhaul done in '98 - I learned to ask about time since
overhaul!), typical otherwise. $19.9K, just reduced from $22K. All
logs. Flight school plane. Called and got more details and a bunch of
pics sent. Owned by a doctor that runs the flight school.

[snip]

I'll stop here and note that this reads like I very well could have been
being taken by this bunch - the owner, the friend/broker, the mechanics.
I feel I am a pretty good judge of people. The mechanic struck me as
honest and disinterested. The owner's got litterally millions of
dollars worth of aircraft in the hangar were sitting in - a pristine
Stearman bipe, a Yak-52, others. Is he going to try to screw somebody
badly on a $20,000 152? Anyway, as we'll see in a bit, I did basically
buy it but I had a contract written with a complete, no string attached
"out" for me: when I come down to pick it up, I get a test flight, with
the option to cancel the deal for any reason I see fit.

I looked at a Cherokee 180 this guy had for sale back in September. I
remember seeing the Yak, Stearman, and a twin in there. I think I remember
the 152 being there, but I never looked at it much. We were looking at the
180.
We talked to the guy briefly. Kinda made me nervous. Too many planes, too
little time. The 180 only had a handful of hours on it since the major about
4 years prior (like 3 hours in one year. Yikes!). 180 was out of annual,
looked worn & just gave an overall impression of "hmmm. interesting". We
told the owner to call us when it was airworthy again & we'd come back.
Never heard from him since.
Of course, that was a whole different plane. Sounds like your 152 *was*
being flown by the school. Cool.
The guys just set some alarms off in my head, though. Best of luck with
your (possible) new bird!

Oh, can someone please turn off the wind here in IL? Thanks. ;-)

Hmm. The 180 is still there. He must be in no hurry to sell it. Like
I said - the guy's obviously got money coming out of his ears. Dick
somebody for a $20K airplane? Doesn't seem likely. Why replace wheels,
discs, windshield just before sale on a plane you want to dump on
somebody?

(Brain: to mask another, major problem.
Shutup, brain, or I'll go kill more of you with alcohol right now!)

The guy I was dealing with at the school - who seems to be acting as
broker or something - assured me that the guy wants no problems with
anybody. If I demand my money back and threaten to sue, I would not
expect an issue.

One more thing I forgot to mention - I asked to talk to one of their
instructors who'd flown the plane. He dialed a number and handed me the
phone, and I was talking to a old-timer with 40 years instructing behind
him. He said it was a quite typical 152. If they've got the whole
place setup to BS prospective buyers about this airplane, they're doing
a good job.

Wonder if he reads this NG.

I looked at a Cherokee 180 this guy had for sale back in September. I
remember seeing the Yak, Stearman, and a twin in there. I think I remember
the 152 being there, but I never looked at it much. We were looking at the
180.
We talked to the guy briefly. Kinda made me nervous. Too many planes, too
little time. The 180 only had a handful of hours on it since the major about
4 years prior (like 3 hours in one year. Yikes!). 180 was out of annual,
looked worn & just gave an overall impression of "hmmm. interesting". We
told the owner to call us when it was airworthy again & we'd come back.
Never heard from him since.
Of course, that was a whole different plane. Sounds like your 152 *was*
being flown by the school. Cool.
The guys just set some alarms off in my head, though. Best of luck with
your (possible) new bird!

Oh, can someone please turn off the wind here in IL? Thanks. ;-)

Paul, I bought my Navion in Kankakee during a weather layover in Chicago
on a commercial flight. I was headed to the left coast, and it was
obvious I wasn't going anywhere for a coupla days. So I rented a car and
made the drive to Kankakee, almost on a whim. The poor old girl sat
lonely and neglected in a hanger. Her owner had moved to Southern
California and told me over the phone what hanger she was in and to
"help myself". I gave her a cursory look-see, and departed the next day
from Chicago on my interrupted business trip.
While in California I had the chance to look at a LOT of Navions, and
the one back in Kankakee started to look pretty good. Called the guy,
made an offer, and became an airplane owner (again). Keep in mind I had
seen this bird once for a total of maybe an hour. Never ran it, never
flew it, never saw the logs. It just felt right.
Four years later it's still right.

Rip

Paul Folbrecht wrote:
Hmm. The 180 is still there. He must be in no hurry to sell it. Like
I said - the guy's obviously got money coming out of his ears. Dick
somebody for a $20K airplane? Doesn't seem likely. Why replace wheels,
discs, windshield just before sale on a plane you want to dump on somebody?

(Brain: to mask another, major problem.
Shutup, brain, or I'll go kill more of you with alcohol right now!)

The guy I was dealing with at the school - who seems to be acting as
broker or something - assured me that the guy wants no problems with
anybody. If I demand my money back and threaten to sue, I would not
expect an issue.

One more thing I forgot to mention - I asked to talk to one of their
instructors who'd flown the plane. He dialed a number and handed me the
phone, and I was talking to a old-timer with 40 years instructing behind
him. He said it was a quite typical 152. If they've got the whole
place setup to BS prospective buyers about this airplane, they're doing
a good job.

Wonder if he reads this NG.

I looked at a Cherokee 180 this guy had for sale back in September. I
remember seeing the Yak, Stearman, and a twin in there. I think I
remember
the 152 being there, but I never looked at it much. We were looking at
the
180.
We talked to the guy briefly. Kinda made me nervous. Too many
planes, too
little time. The 180 only had a handful of hours on it since the major
about
4 years prior (like 3 hours in one year. Yikes!). 180 was out of annual,
looked worn & just gave an overall impression of "hmmm. interesting". We
told the owner to call us when it was airworthy again & we'd come back.
Never heard from him since.
Of course, that was a whole different plane. Sounds like your 152 *was*
being flown by the school. Cool.
The guys just set some alarms off in my head, though. Best of luck
with
your (possible) new bird!

Oh, can someone please turn off the wind here in IL? Thanks. ;-)

While in California I had the chance to look at a LOT of Navions, and
the one back in Kankakee started to look pretty good. Called the guy,
made an offer, and became an airplane owner (again). Keep in mind I had
seen this bird once for a total of maybe an hour. Never ran it, never
flew it, never saw the logs. It just felt right.
Four years later it's still right.

Whoa. And I though *I* was a risk taker...

Of course, buying a classic Navion is a bit different than buying a
Cessnoid/Piper/Beech, but still...
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"

So, congragulate me or call me a fool - your choice. :-)

Congrats, Paul. It sounds to me like you did a pretty danged good pre-buy
yourself, and -- with the price of a 152 less than a Ford Taurus -- what
have you really got to lose?

Worst-case scenario would be needing to buy a new engine -- and you'd STILL
be spending less in total than the cost of a mid-70s Skyhawk.

I think you done good.
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"

While in California I had the chance to look at a LOT of Navions, and
the one back in Kankakee started to look pretty good. Called the guy,
made an offer, and became an airplane owner (again). Keep in mind I had
seen this bird once for a total of maybe an hour. Never ran it, never
flew it, never saw the logs. It just felt right.
Four years later it's still right.

I bought my 182 sight unseen, except that I did see a few pics on the
dealers website. A previous prospective buyer had a prebuy done and
then couldn't come to terms with the dealer. The dealer gave me the
name of the mechanic that did that prebuy. He told me what he found,
sounded good so I sent the dealer $1000 until I could get there to pick
it up. When I went to pick it up the dealer told me he could have sold
it 5 more times that day alone that I originally called. I had no way
of knowing if that was true at the time but I don't doubt it now.

Well, the next time you see that pretty little blue '58 182 on the ramp in Iowa
City, understand that:

1. I found it in a farmer's chicken coop in Fresno; there were biddy hens
sitting on eggs in the back seat that did NOT want to depart the airframe for my
inspection.

2. The wings were off, but the cropduster owner told me that they were in
"perfect condition" in a barn fifty miles away. This happened to be the truth.
Not only perfect condition, but aftermarket corrosion preventive inside the
wings all over.

3. The internal plastic fairings (instrument cover, side panels, door covers)
were in a barn fifty miles in the OTHER direction. Again, the cropduster owner
told me that they were all in perfect condition. This happened to be the truth.

4. The paint was peeling in a dozen directions from hens roosting on the
elevator, rudder, and fuselage.

5. They stopped flying it because the engine had a "real bad knock in it". It
turned out to be a defective starter adapter plate. It could have been an
engine bearing. That is the crapshoot.

6. It had a midtime engine overhauled by a company that had since gone out of
business. The company did NOT have a savory reputation. Five of the six
cylinders were chromed back to standard. The sixth was bored oversize. Just a
bit shakey when it started.

7. There were zero radios in the stack. Zero. We ferried it home on a
handheld.

8. On the way home, the horizon was about 45° to the real horizon, the DG kept
a constant course no matter which way I turned, and the turn coordinator didn't.

9. The paperwork was...ummm..."cropduster correct." Even as an A&P IA, it took
me damned near a year to get a handle on the "undocumented mods" and installed
equipment with not even a HINT of how, who, or when it was installed. (And, in
a couple of instances, what it DID.)

10. On the other hand, I got a C-182 with a mid-time engine for $5K. Every
bolt, nut, and screw on it is now new. Every cable on it is new. The radios
are all "JimTagged" and working. The instruments are all overhauled. I've got
a $50K airplane for $25K in parts and one hell of a lot of sweat.

And, I can go to that airplane blindfolded and tell you what every single bolt,
nut, and fitting does. I can also tell you where the weak parts are, and what I
expect will happen should they fail.

It only took me two years to complete the task. You might just consider how
well you know your airplane and what it is worth to you to know just exactly how
well it is constructed and maintained.

Jim





"Jay Honeck"
shared these priceless pearls of wisdom:

- While in California I had the chance to look at a LOT of Navions
-
-Whoa. And I though *I* was a risk taker...
-
-Of course, buying a classic Navion is a bit different than buying a
-Cessnoid/Piper/Beech, but still...

Jim Weir (A&P/IA, CFI, & other good alphabet soup)
VP Eng RST Pres. Cyberchapter EAA Tech. Counselor
http://www.rst-engr.com

Thanks, Jay. You may see 89795 at the hotel this summer.

As for that "worst-case scenario" - I'd like to think that's pretty
unlikely with this particular engine. But then there's always the
possibility, with any engine.

Jay Honeck wrote:
So, congragulate me or call me a fool - your choice. :-)


Congrats, Paul. It sounds to me like you did a pretty danged good pre-buy
yourself, and -- with the price of a 152 less than a Ford Taurus -- what
have you really got to lose?

Worst-case scenario would be needing to buy a new engine -- and you'd STILL
be spending less in total than the cost of a mid-70s Skyhawk.

I think you done good.

Well, the next time you see that pretty little blue '58 182 on the ramp in
Iowa
City, understand that:

(great story snipped)

No fair, Jim! You've done exactly what I would do, if I had your aptitude
and abilities.

In my next life, I will understand electricity. And how to build an engine.
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"