Tent basics // Oshkosh prep

awright! I admit this is a bit premature but it has been too poopy to fly lately and a fellas' mind gets to wandering.

We have been gearing up to camp the North 40 for a while.

Last year we even upgraded the tent to a nice stand-up Eureka Headquarters.

Shortly after that, I read Jays' tale of woe and saw the pictures after his tent blew down.

Now my new tent is of similar size, http://www.eurekatent.com/head.asp , as Jays' old one.

My wife thinks that a nice motorhome is roughing it. Wet sleeping bags and the tent self destructing would be the last time we spent
on the north 40 which leads (finally) to my question.

Do I need a different tent or is proper staking and guying the solution. (and all the sub questions like what stakes and what angles
to drive them etc. We are not skilled tenters)

Mike Z

In article .net,
Mike Z. wrote:

Mike, forget about that Headquarters tent. It is a big kite that cannot
be anchored properly to withstand potential winds.
Instead, look at the Timberline Outfitter 6.
http://www.eurekatent.com/timout.asp
A big tent with lots or room and can be guyed and staked to withstand
the winds.
If you do not need that much space, look at the Timberline 4XT and add
the Annex for a place to sit in out of the sun or rain.
http://www.eurekatent.com/timblinext.asp

Bring a hammer for the stakes. If you can get them in without a hammer,
they are unlikely to hold on large tent. You want longer stakes too.
hardwood or rebar work well. The tent is probably OK since the winds will
not be sustained.

Mike
MU-2


"Mike Z." wrote in message
link.net...
awright! I admit this is a bit premature but it has been too poopy to fly
lately and a fellas' mind gets to wandering.

We have been gearing up to camp the North 40 for a while.

Last year we even upgraded the tent to a nice stand-up Eureka
Headquarters.

Shortly after that, I read Jays' tale of woe and saw the pictures after
his tent blew down.

Now my new tent is of similar size, http://www.eurekatent.com/head.asp ,
as Jays' old one.

My wife thinks that a nice motorhome is roughing it. Wet sleeping bags and
the tent self destructing would be the last time we spent
on the north 40 which leads (finally) to my question.

Do I need a different tent or is proper staking and guying the solution.
(and all the sub questions like what stakes and what angles
to drive them etc. We are not skilled tenters)

Mike Z

In article .net,
Mike Rapoport wrote:

Bring a hammer for the stakes. If you can get them in without a hammer,
they are unlikely to hold on large tent. You want longer stakes too.
hardwood or rebar work well. The tent is probably OK since the winds will
not be sustained.

The Tuesday afternoon windstorm pulled out my 9" pole barn nail stakes
on the downwind side of my tarp as I was in the process of taking it
down.

Polebarn nails are cheap and come in various lengths and diameters. Get
some washers to slid up under the head to keep your guy lines from
sliding off.

Hardwood my split and or splinter as you attempt to drive it into the
hard, rocky Oshkosh North 40.

Mike's suggestion of rebar is sound. Cut them to 12 to 18 inches and
file or grind the ends smooth. You will encounter rocks as you attempt
to drive the stakes into the Oshkosh "soil".

I have a set of Fly-Tie aircraft anchors for my plane. They are 18" x
3/8" stainless steel rods. I bent one of them this past AirVenture,
going around a rock while I was driving it in with my Estwing 8 pound
mallet. You definitely want a hammer with some mass. A ballpeen hammer
will also work well if you have a good heavy one.

My tent was just three rows east of Jay's. It stayed put. Aluminum vice
fiberglas poles and a full rain fly make a difference. The more guys
and stakes you use, the less your tent will flex and move in the wind.
It's the flexing and moving that breaks and bends poles.

"Mike Z." wrote:

Do I need a different tent or is proper staking and guying the solution. (and all the sub questions like what stakes and what angles
to drive them etc. We are not skilled tenters)

Well, few tents are going to stay put if the wind gets much above 50 knots, but you
can certainly do things in the staking and guying area. Go with long metal stakes.
Drive them in at a 90 degree angle to the pull of the tent or line. Some tents like
yours have secondary guy line attachment points up around the tops of the walls. If
yours does, use them. Run the guy lines no steeper than a 45 degree angle. Cotton
clothesline is strong and easy to cut and work with for guy lines.

As far as water is concerned, there are a few steps to take. Never place any item
in contact with the walls or roof of the tent if rain is possible. That will start
water wicking through the fabric at that point, and the leak won't stop until the
tent dries out. When you leave for the day, secure all door and window flaps
completely. There's no real need for ventilation if you aren't in the tent. Make
sure that your air mattresses are waterproof and set everything that you want to
keep dry on the mattress or in the plane when you leave for the day. If you don't
have air mattresses, get some. Another alternative is some sort of folding cot.

Since you just bought the tent, try it out before Oshkosh. Pick a time when some
nasty thunderboomers are expected to blow through, and set the thing up in the
back yard. If things don't work out, take corrective steps and try again 'til
it survives.

You can get military stakes and other equipment at http://www.sportsmansguide.com

George Patterson
Great discoveries are not announced with "Eureka!". What's usually said is
"Hummmmm... That's interesting...."

Most things work well if you don't hit a rock....I always hit rocks.

Mike
MU-2


"Nomen Nescio" ] wrote in message
...
From: "Mike Rapoport"

Bring a hammer for the stakes. If you can get them in without a hammer,
they are unlikely to hold on large tent. You want longer stakes too.
hardwood or rebar work well. The tent is probably OK since the winds
will
not be sustained.

There are also "sand stakes" available that are designed to hold in loose
soil. Sort of like
portable aircraft tie-downs but made out of thermoset plastic. They
basically screw into the
ground and are quite good at holding tensile loads. Just be sure to screw
them in at the
same angle as the tent ropes and they should hold like a rock.

My tent was just three rows east of Jay's. It stayed put. Aluminum vice
fiberglas poles and a full rain fly make a difference.
I just shielded yours from the wind! :-)

I had 3/4 inch (!) and 1 inch (!!) aluminum poles on that tent, a rain fly,
and the whole thing was staked down with 10 (!!!) stakes.

Didn't matter a bit -- the wind pulled those stakes out of the "soil"
(basically gravel under an inch of topsoil), and bent the poles over the
backside of my right aileron. Incredibly, the poles bent -- while the
aileron did not.

That was a perfect example of straight-line winds in the MidWest, which can
be as damaging as a tornado. We found the ground cloth -- previously under
the tent -- wrapped around a Skyhawk prop several rows down...

That old tent had survived four OSH fly-ins and a host of other trips,
including some near-tornadoes, without problem. Our new tent, while bigger,
has thinner fiberglass poles, which I don't much car for -- but I didn't
have much choice at the time. (It was the only tent available at a store
within walking distance of the North 40!)

Luckily, it doesn't stick straight up like a pole barn, like the old one
did -- so it should present a lower profile to the wind.
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"

There are also "sand stakes" available that are designed to hold in loose
soil. Sort of like
portable aircraft tie-downs but made out of thermoset plastic. They
basically screw into the
ground

There is NOTHING you can "screw into" some parts of the North 40. This past
year we were parked on top of what amounted to gravel beneath a thin layer
of topsoil. As a result, I was completely unable to screw in my metal
aircraft tie-downs -- even using a "cheater bar"!

It would simply drill down a few inches, and start pulling up gravel and
dirt, just like a little excavator. I was just very lucky that those same
winds that destroyed my tent didn't flip my plane.

(We actually got a couple of them in, eventually, by carrying buckets of
water over to the plane, and pouring them into the parched ground. This
softened the soil enough for the screw-ins to "bite" and stay put, sort of.)

Other years it's never been as much of a problem, so I think we were just in
a bad spot, compounded by a summer-long drought.
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"

In article FLJEb.604866$Fm2.547625@attbi_s04, Jay Honeck
wrote:

I had 3/4 inch (!) and 1 inch (!!) aluminum poles on that tent, a rain fly,
and the whole thing was staked down with 10 (!!!) stakes.
Didn't matter a bit -- the wind pulled those stakes out of the "soil"
(basically gravel under an inch of topsoil), and bent the poles over the
backside of my right aileron. Incredibly, the poles bent -- while the
aileron did not.

OOPS!!! I forgot about the aluminum to aluminum transfer on Atlas' wing.

"Jay Honeck" wrote in message
news:GQJEb.599065$Tr4.1565941@attbi_s03...
There are also "sand stakes" available that are designed to hold in
loose
soil. Sort of like
portable aircraft tie-downs but made out of thermoset plastic. They
basically screw into the
ground

There is NOTHING you can "screw into" some parts of the North 40. This
past
year we were parked on top of what amounted to gravel beneath a thin layer
of topsoil. As a result, I was completely unable to screw in my metal
aircraft tie-downs -- even using a "cheater bar"!

It would simply drill down a few inches, and start pulling up gravel and
dirt, just like a little excavator. I was just very lucky that those same
winds that destroyed my tent didn't flip my plane.

(We actually got a couple of them in, eventually, by carrying buckets of
water over to the plane, and pouring them into the parched ground. This
softened the soil enough for the screw-ins to "bite" and stay put, sort
of.)

Other years it's never been as much of a problem, so I think we were just
in
a bad spot, compounded by a summer-long drought.
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"

Nothing can beat a 1/2" rebar, about 16" long. Weld a hook on the backside,
to keep the ropes from sliding off.

I found that the problem with most tents, is that they do not have guy
attach points in the right places. If the tent is allowed to start
oscilating from the gusts, the end is near. I put extra holes through the
rain fly, to attach to the poles in mid span, and at the top, then run them
out at a good angle away from the tent. That also makes for a good place to
hang towels, ect. So, in wraping up the tent bit, in my opinion, if you add
enough extra guys, any tent can be made to stay up.

The wet inside bit, is a hard one, but I recomend blow up air mattresses to
keep above any floor water. For luggage, a trunk type, made from plastic,
available as "tool boxes" at the big home improvement chains is hard to
beat. If it is in the water, no big deal. The top can double as a night
stand for lanterns, lights, clocks, act. Get a big piece of plastic for
under the tent, but make it large enough that you can roll up the edges,
upwards, and make sure they are under the edge of the tent. The rolled up
edge prevents water from getting on top of the plastic, in between the
bottom of the tent and the plastic. (bad news)
--
Jim in NC