Frustrated Student Pilot About to Quit

I am a student pilot with 18 hours of flight time, and have been told
that I am very close to soloing. However, I have reached the point
that I am about to give it up, and not because, I cannot fly the
pattern, do landings, steep turns, etc., or even costs or medical.
This is why:

1. I have a competent, patient, and otherwise very good CFI. However,
he can never be on time, and as a busy professional, and despite many
discussions, I cannot live with this. Not 10 or 20 min late, but 1 to
2 hours late, and frequent. He is the only CFI at this airport.
Unfortunately, the next closest airport with flight instruction is 65
miles from here, so my choices are non-existent, unless I want to
spend many hours on the road. Besides, untimely and tardy CFIs are a
common disease in GA so I hear.

2. GA seems economically distressed. The aviation company that
employs him has junk equipment, 2 days in a row now two different
planes would not start. And never mind the lack of money to plow snow
or remove compacted ice on the runway. I just don't want to spend my
money in what looks to me to be a distressed industry that may not
even have a bottom line in some sectors.

3. Living in the Great Lakes area, just how practical is all of this,
with 5 to 6 months of crappy weather being typical. It is perpetual
IFR, lots of icing, and when the plane will start, crosswind 2x or
more the POH limitations, and headwinds that leave driving a car
faster. Even scheduling 2 to 3 times a week, maybe only 50% of my
lessons could go forward, and even those sometimes were marginal
conditions. I am disappointed that this is not more practical.

I learned many things, made better progress than I had envisioned, and
really enjoyed the few timely, good days that were available, and
really enjoyed the reading and learning. I had wanted to get my
private pilot certif. For business and pleasure purposes. The best of
luck to those of you who have better circumstances, I am really sorry
to have to give it up.

I see you have two choices.. maybe 3... or 4

1) move to a warmer climate
2) take a long vacation to a warm climate with a flight school and finish up
(I know a few people who have done that and flown every day and finished in
3-4 weeks)
3) wait until summer
4) quit

Sorry to hear you have CFI problems, that is a major obstacle to get around
in such a small community. Ask the local pilots in the area who they go to
for their 2 year reviews. Maybe there is a hidden CFI somewhere that will
not deal with the FBOs poor equipment.

Tardy CFIs are let go from the local flight school here. If they can't meet
the schedule,See ya. It's one thing if he's with a previous student that
runs over time. It's another to not be at the airport and ready when the
student (CUSTOMER)walks in the door.

BT

"Litwin" wrote in message
om...
I am a student pilot with 18 hours of flight time, and have been told
that I am very close to soloing. However, I have reached the point
that I am about to give it up, and not because, I cannot fly the
pattern, do landings, steep turns, etc., or even costs or medical.
This is why:

1. I have a competent, patient, and otherwise very good CFI. However,
he can never be on time, and as a busy professional, and despite many
discussions, I cannot live with this. Not 10 or 20 min late, but 1 to
2 hours late, and frequent. He is the only CFI at this airport.
Unfortunately, the next closest airport with flight instruction is 65
miles from here, so my choices are non-existent, unless I want to
spend many hours on the road. Besides, untimely and tardy CFIs are a
common disease in GA so I hear.

2. GA seems economically distressed. The aviation company that
employs him has junk equipment, 2 days in a row now two different
planes would not start. And never mind the lack of money to plow snow
or remove compacted ice on the runway. I just don't want to spend my
money in what looks to me to be a distressed industry that may not
even have a bottom line in some sectors.

3. Living in the Great Lakes area, just how practical is all of this,
with 5 to 6 months of crappy weather being typical. It is perpetual
IFR, lots of icing, and when the plane will start, crosswind 2x or
more the POH limitations, and headwinds that leave driving a car
faster. Even scheduling 2 to 3 times a week, maybe only 50% of my
lessons could go forward, and even those sometimes were marginal
conditions. I am disappointed that this is not more practical.

I learned many things, made better progress than I had envisioned, and
really enjoyed the few timely, good days that were available, and
really enjoyed the reading and learning. I had wanted to get my
private pilot certif. For business and pleasure purposes. The best of
luck to those of you who have better circumstances, I am really sorry
to have to give it up.

"Litwin" wrote in message
om...

Besides, untimely and tardy CFIs are a
common disease in GA so I hear.

That is not my experience and I have not heard that. One to two hours late?
Unbelieveable!

2. GA seems economically distressed. The aviation company that
employs him has junk equipment, 2 days in a row now two different
planes would not start.

This varies from place to place. However, if the only instructor is
frequently 1 to 2 hours late and this is accepted, I can understand why that
aviation company isn't doing very well.

Even scheduling 2 to 3 times a week, maybe only 50% of my
lessons could go forward, and even those sometimes were marginal
conditions. I am disappointed that this is not more practical.

There are also many great flying days. We've all been frustrated over
weather at times. But, I also like swimming, and there are a good many
months when that is impossible during the year also, but I'm not about to
quit it.

I learned many things, made better progress than I had envisioned, and
really enjoyed the few timely, good days that were available, and
really enjoyed the reading and learning. I had wanted to get my
private pilot certif. For business and pleasure purposes. The best of
luck to those of you who have better circumstances, I am really sorry
to have to give it up.

If you like it, and there is nothing else like it on this space rock, take a
vacation and go somewhere with great weather and get the license. There are
many decent schools down south; think of a location (eg, Florida) and ask
for recommendations, and return home with your PP certificate.

Peter

Litwin wrote:

Besides, untimely and tardy CFIs are a common disease in GA so I hear.

I have not found that to be the case, but it sounds like your CFI is the only
game in town.

I just don't want to spend my
money in what looks to me to be a distressed industry that may not
even have a bottom line in some sectors.

This is not universally true, but, again, for you, there's no other choice.

I am disappointed that this is not more practical.

Well, it's not.

I am really sorry to have to give it up.

Sounds like that's what you have to do, though. If you move elsewhere later in life,
try again.

George Patterson
Great discoveries are not announced with "Eureka!". What's usually said is
"Hummmmm... That's interesting...."

1. I have a competent, patient, and otherwise very good CFI. However,
he can never be on time, and as a busy professional, and despite many
discussions, I cannot live with this. Not 10 or 20 min late, but 1 to
2 hours late, and frequent.

You should not put up with this. You need to speak with his boss, if he has
one, and explain why you are about to remove your substantial financial
support from his small business. Done in the proper tone, this can have an
AMAZING effect.

If he doesn't have a boss, you need to explain this to HIM.

2. GA seems economically distressed.

GA IS economically distressed, for precisely the reasons you outline. We
currently have a very professionally-run FBO on our field, and they are
doing fine, despite intense competition. However, poor service and
slip-shod operations are unfortunately quite common in GA.

Stick around and help us change that.

3. Living in the Great Lakes area, just how practical is all of this,
with 5 to 6 months of crappy weather being typical. It is perpetual
IFR, lots of icing, and when the plane will start, crosswind 2x or
more the POH limitations, and headwinds that leave driving a car
faster.

Not a problem. I trained and lived in Wisconsin, and currently reside in
Iowa -- not a whole lot warmer than your neck of the woods. Despite this,
Mary and I fly every few days, year 'round. You just have to pick your days
carefully, and don't think of GA travel like an airline. Be prepared to
scrub your flights, because it WILL happen -- even in summer. Remember,
what we are flying is as different from an airliner as Miata is from a
HumVee -- you're not always going to be able to get there from here.

If you've done any motorcycle touring, weather planning is really quite
similar. In fact, we take frequent GA flying vacations, and we ALWAYS plan
at least two entirely different trips, so that if the weather sucks in one
direction, we are prepared to go the other way. By following this plan, we
have NEVER scrubbed a vacation, in ten years of VFR flying. We just choose
to go another direction!

I learned many things, made better progress than I had envisioned, and
really enjoyed the few timely, good days that were available, and
really enjoyed the reading and learning. I had wanted to get my
private pilot certif. For business and pleasure purposes. The best of
luck to those of you who have better circumstances, I am really sorry
to have to give it up.

Personally, I had to wait until I was 35 years old to be able to get my
ticket. And then I had to drive 45 minutes before work in the morning to
take lesson, in the winter, in Wisconsin, and would often find that the
weather was below minimums when I got there, or the airplane was down. And
if the airplane WASN'T down, it still had to be cleared of snow, de-iced,
and pre-heated for half an hour before we could fly.

Learning to fly isn't easy. Between lessons were long nights of study, with
two toddlers underfoot, and a tired wife to help support. Compared to
getting my college degree, learning to fly was MUCH harder for me, simply
because of the many other things going on in my life.

But it was the best thing I ever did, and it has truly changed my life. I
simply can't imagine life without flying, and we're now on our second
airplane. Mary got her ticket in '99, and we literally fly EVERYWHERE with
our kids, ages 10 and 13.

Here's the harsh truth: If you give it up now because of a tardy CFI, you
aren't cut out to be a pilot. Flying is either in your blood, or it's not.
If it is -- and you're given half a chance to get your Private -- you'll
stick with it, no matter what.

Less than 1% of the world gets to be a pilot. With 18 hours invested, you're
half-way there. Keep at it -- you won't regret it.
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"

Litwin wrote:
I am a student pilot with 18 hours of flight time, and have been told
that I am very close to soloing.

I would think that is very typical. I just soloed 10 days ago with 20 hours.

However, I have reached the point
that I am about to give it up, and not because, I cannot fly the
pattern, do landings, steep turns, etc., or even costs or medical.
This is why:

1. I have a competent, patient, and otherwise very good CFI. However,
he can never be on time, and as a busy professional, and despite many
discussions, I cannot live with this. Not 10 or 20 min late, but 1 to
2 hours late, and frequent.

Did you talk to him? Did you mention that being this late is a real problem
for you?
If this doesn't help or if you get a snippy reply then:
Dump that CFI! Not next week, not tomorrow, do it NOW.
You are the paying customer. If he doesn't even listen to you, then the
relationship is just not working.
It is your money, your time, your nerves. Not to mention your blood
pressure.

Unfortunately, the next closest airport with flight instruction is 65
miles from here, so my choices are non-existent, unless I want to
spend many hours on the road.

Well, not really. There are many free-lance CFIs around. There are also
flying clubs and other organization, wich are non-commercial. I would try to
find someone in that area before giving up flying because of a bad CFI.

Besides, untimely and tardy CFIs are a
common disease in GA so I hear.

Maybe, depends on your definition of "untimely and tardy" and "common
desease".
Personally I cannot confirm your observation for my flying school. People
are very courtiouos, usually punctual (with some leeway of course, you can't
plan every slight by the second), and if there a tardy CFI and any customer
would talk to the Chief Flight Instructor or the FBO owner, then you can be
sure that the CFI would have a very uncomfortable conversation with his
boss.

2. GA seems economically distressed. The aviation company that

That of course is a well-known fact. Has been for decades.

employs him has junk equipment, 2 days in a row now two different
planes would not start.

Happens. Those are old planes, beaten planes, what can you expect from an
industry that can barely survive.
However, I think the general attitude is more important, from both sides!

If you want a new plane with nice leather seats, the latest avionics, etc.
etc, then my FBO would be very happy to rent it to me for the lessons.
However, the price will be about twice as much as you pay for an old C-152
with torn seats and the paint worn down.

As for the attitude of the FBO: during my very limited flying experience I
grounded a plain 4 times because they were not airworthy. That's what a
preflight and runup are for. And once we had to cancel the lesson because
there was no other plane available. But that is your responsibility as a
pilot, nobody else can make that call. Now, the big question is how did the
FBO react? And at least at my place they take the plane out of service
immediately, take it to the shop, and it won't be back in service until the
problem is fixed (which usually was the case the next day). Now, if they
react grumpy, then you got a problem. But personally I never experienced
that, quite the opposite: they applogiced and were sincerely sorry that I
could fly. Or maybe that they couldn't make money that day, but to me it was
the same.

And never mind the lack of money to plow snow
or remove compacted ice on the runway. I just don't want to spend my
money in what looks to me to be a distressed industry that may not
even have a bottom line in some sectors.

You lost me. I though you were spending your money because you want to learn
how to fly?
Or do intend to spend your money to subsidice the aviation industry?

3. Living in the Great Lakes area, just how practical is all of this,
with 5 to 6 months of crappy weather being typical. It is perpetual
IFR, lots of icing, and when the plane will start, crosswind 2x or
more the POH limitations, and headwinds that leave driving a car
faster. Even scheduling 2 to 3 times a week, maybe only 50% of my
lessons could go forward, and even those sometimes were marginal
conditions. I am disappointed that this is not more practical.

In some areas winter is a challanging time. If this is putting you off so
much, then yes, maybe you should reconsider.

I learned many things, made better progress than I had envisioned, and
really enjoyed the few timely, good days that were available, and
really enjoyed the reading and learning. I had wanted to get my
private pilot certif. For business and pleasure purposes. The best of
luck to those of you who have better circumstances, I am really sorry
to have to give it up.

If you really like flying then I think you are giving up to early and for
the wrong reasons.
Some ideas:
- wait until summer when the weather will be more favourable
- find a different CFI (but not without talking to him first; maybe he is
simply not aware that timing is critical for you) or different means of
learning (flying club, ...)!!!
- maybe take two weeks off and take some lessons at a nicer location, e.g.
Florida or Hawaii. While I do not recommend those "Get your license in two
weeks" courses, there is no reason why you shouldn't enjoy a different
atmosphere and better flying conditions. For that time frame you could also
look more upscale flying schools with better/newer equipment, but of course
the price tag will be much higher, too.
- however, if your were getting into aviation because you want to make
money: run away as fast as possible as long as you have any left

jue

1. I have a competent, patient, and otherwise very good CFI. However,
he can never be on time, and as a busy professional, and despite many
discussions, I cannot live with this.

Can't say that I blame you. Mine was late on my second lesson, and I
thought I would have to fire him. But he worked out great after that. In
your position, I would probably work out something along the lines of
telling him that if he is more than X minutes late, then he forfeits his fee
that day. If he won't fly with you under those conditions, fire him.


2. GA seems economically distressed.

That's only because GA is economically distressed. Aviation, both general
and commercial, is chock-filled with people who have simply no business
being in business. From Stephen Wolf, ex-CEO of any number of distressed
airlines. down to the A&P I know who literally screams at his customers over
the telephone when they are so rude as to call him to schedule their annual,
to the people who you can only figure must be selling drugs on the side
because they have no visible other means of supporting themselves.

Despite all this, aviation continues to (just barely) survive. Provided
that it isn't legistlated or regulated out of existence, my suspicion is
that there will be GA for some time to come. Most of the businesses you see
will fail in the next five years or so, but other idealistic people will
take their place, and will then slowly go bankrupt themselves.

Even scheduling 2 to 3 times a week, maybe only 50% of my
lessons could go forward, and even those sometimes were marginal
conditions. I am disappointed that this is not more practical.

It's not practical. That's disappointing, I agree. But lifting nearly a
ton of weight up in the air costs money -- far more money than moving an SUV
5 times heavier along the ground at highway speeds. You cannot expect a PP
rating to be the key to any real utility. It's fun, and it's cool, but you
cannot count on using it to fly to that business meeting across the state
next Tuesday. Too many things can get in the way of any flight. An
instrument rating would go a long way to making more flights do-able, but it
cannot prevent icing or thunderstorms or mechanical problems or any number
of other things that will force you to drive across the state instead and be
late for your big meeting.

GA flying is GA flying, nothing more and nothing less. Sometimes it works
out. Sometimes it is very useful. And other times it is frustrating,
disappointing, and exceedingly unhelpful.

1. I have a competent, patient, and otherwise very good CFI. However,
he can never be on time, and as a busy professional, and despite many
discussions, I cannot live with this. Not 10 or 20 min late, but 1 to
2 hours late, and frequent. He is the only CFI at this airport.
Unfortunately, the next closest airport with flight instruction is 65
miles from here, so my choices are non-existent, unless I want to
spend many hours on the road. Besides, untimely and tardy CFIs are a
common disease in GA so I hear.

Try booking a time that's 1 to 2 hours ahead of when you want to fly. Either
....

(a) He'll be ready about the same time as you, or ...

(b) He'll get the message!

CC

...He is the only CFI at this airport.

Ask around. I was amazed at the number of CFI's in my area that either
worked at other airports (some as far as 100miles away) or that only
instructed on the side (outside the FBO).

You'll be surprised what you might find.


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Dude (or dudette),

Your situation stinks, I know. Have you considered travelling somewhere else
for a flight training weekend? Maybe a few days with a different CFI might
just give you the boost that you need to work with this chump a little
longer. You are so close to solo (think about it!!) it would be a real shame
if you quit now.

Good luck. Keep on going. It is worth it.

Pilot Bob

"Litwin" wrote in message
om...
I am a student pilot with 18 hours of flight time, and have been told
that I am very close to soloing. However, I have reached the point
that I am about to give it up, and not because, I cannot fly the
pattern, do landings, steep turns, etc., or even costs or medical.
This is why: