More KAP 140 questions

I have another KAP 140 question for the group. Is there a way to have a
dual axis w/ pre-select model of the KAP140 act as though it is only a
single axis? Sometimes I want to engage the AP in heading mode but take
care of pitch myself. Engaging the AP in heading mode makes the AP
automatically go into vertical speed mode. When on a VOR approach (or other
non-precision approach) it would be nice to have the AP track a course or
heading, but I don't trust it to level off at the step down fixes in a
timely manner. During cruise, though, I might use altitude hold while I am
busy briefing the approach, getting ATIS, etc...
I can't figure out how to get one without the other. Is there a way to do
this?

Thank you.

"News" wrote:

I have another KAP 140 question for the group. Is there a way to have a
dual axis w/ pre-select model of the KAP140 act as though it is only a
single axis?

No, with the KAP 140, either you are flying the airplane or the autopilot is
flying the airplane. When the autopilot is flying, you should not attempt
to control the airplane with the yoke in either axis. It controls the
horizontal. It controls the vertical. Do not adjust your set.

Whether you trust the autopilot to fly an approach, or whether you should,
is a matter for philosophical debate. I've always hand-flown all of my
approaches in actual. I've practiced with it under simulated conditions
where I've been impressed that the autopilot can do a fine job for me,
unless I misconfigure it -- in which case the resulting deviation can be
extremely disorienting.

The badly mistyped response I raised on the KAP140 reference the ILS is that
many installations have a relay/switch that slects either NAV1 or GPS as
the
source for the HSI and hence the KAP140.

In most installations the tuning of an ILS/LOC frequency AUTOMATICALLY
forces the switch/relay into
NAV mode.

If you have a real ILS frequency tuned you smoothly intercept and track the
localiser if you are lined up
in the area, if its a not real frequency it stays in nav mode but drifts on
in pace not really knowing where its going!

Personally twice I've had a helpful co-pilot collegaue tune in an ILS to get
the dne distance
only to find the plane doing a beautiful intercept!

In VFR conditions with everybody watching very amusing, other times?


peter
"Craig Prouse" wrote in message
...
"News" wrote:

I have another KAP 140 question for the group. Is there a way to have a
dual axis w/ pre-select model of the KAP140 act as though it is only a
single axis?

No, with the KAP 140, either you are flying the airplane or the autopilot
is
flying the airplane. When the autopilot is flying, you should not attempt
to control the airplane with the yoke in either axis. It controls the
horizontal. It controls the vertical. Do not adjust your set.

Whether you trust the autopilot to fly an approach, or whether you should,
is a matter for philosophical debate. I've always hand-flown all of my
approaches in actual. I've practiced with it under simulated conditions
where I've been impressed that the autopilot can do a fine job for me,
unless I misconfigure it -- in which case the resulting deviation can be
extremely disorienting.

Seems if you have a GPS with a nice big display, that you'd want to have
that up for situational awarness and load the ILS for backup/reference.
Then it would be obvious if you were flying off course.

Slightly off topic, but, one item on the Bendix King KLN94 is that when
flying an ILS DME, you are supposed use the ILS identifier in the
intersection page of the GPS for DME. (our new club Cessna 172/182 don't
have DME) Does this mean you should not load the ILS for referance? Can
you do both? Seems doing a DirectTo the ILS identifier would put the loaded
ILS on hold until the DirectTo was canceled. ... Aaron


"Peter" wrote in message
...

"Peter Bondar" wrote

The badly mistyped response I raised on the KAP140 reference the ILS is
that
many installations have a relay/switch that slects either NAV1 or GPS as
the
source for the HSI and hence the KAP140.

In most installations the tuning of an ILS/LOC frequency AUTOMATICALLY
forces the switch/relay into
NAV mode.

If you have a real ILS frequency tuned you smoothly intercept and track
the
localiser if you are lined up
in the area, if its a not real frequency it stays in nav mode but drifts
on
in pace not really knowing where its going!

Personally twice I've had a helpful co-pilot collegaue tune in an ILS to
get
the dne distance
only to find the plane doing a beautiful intercept!

In VFR conditions with everybody watching very amusing, other times?

I think this is why the automatic override of the autopilot mode (or
of the HSI source, if you have an HSI, with the AP working off the HSI
bar) is not used much nowadays. My plane (2002 TB20) does not have
such an override; so you DO have to remember to select NAV on the
GPS/NAV switch if you are going to fly an ILS (whether you fly it
manually, or with the AP in APR mode).

If you leave the GPS/NAV switch in the "GPS" position and do an ILS,
and the last leg of your GPS flight plan just happens to line up (more
or less) with the localiser, you may not realise for quite a while
that you tracking the GPS track and not the localiser!!

I am not sure which "confusion mode" is more dangerous.

When I made this mistake I realised it before I got to the FAF so I
can't say what happens to the GS indication..... you might be
tracking the GS down, while tracking the GPS track in a slightly
different direction!!!

Just shows that one needs to understand the equipment in detail. But
here in the UK it is hard enough to find an instructor who knows what
an autopilot is.......



Peter.
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"Aaron Kiley" wrote:

Seems if you have a GPS with a nice big display, that you'd want to have
that up for situational awarness and load the ILS for backup/reference.
Then it would be obvious if you were flying off course.

Slightly off topic, but, one item on the Bendix King KLN94 is that when
flying an ILS DME, you are supposed use the ILS identifier in the
intersection page of the GPS for DME. (our new club Cessna 172/182 don't
have DME) Does this mean you should not load the ILS for referance? Can
you do both? Seems doing a DirectTo the ILS identifier would put the loaded
ILS on hold until the DirectTo was canceled. ... Aaron

I have the older KLN 89B GPS and the database does not contain anything but
GPS approaches and GPS overlays. There's not an ILS to be found in there.
I still monitor my ILS approaches by selecting the paired DME waypoint, or
in lieu of that a LOM or other named fix aligned with the localizer, and
dialing in the final approach course in OBS mode.

This might be one way to do what you need to do, while still doing most of
what you want to do.

"Peter" wrote in message
...

"Aaron Kiley" wrote

Seems if you have a GPS with a nice big display, that you'd want to have
that up for situational awarness and load the ILS for backup/reference.
Then it would be obvious if you were flying off course.

Do you mean making the last leg of the GPS Flight Plan aligned with
the localiser?

There are no official GPS approaches here in the UK but the KLN94B
does contain some things e.g. approach fixes.


Peter.

Peter, In the US, the new KLN94 GPS has all the non-gps approaches in it's
database for reference. So you can load an ILS (you get a disclaimer that
it's only to be used as reference) and use it as situational awareness. But
if you need a substitute for DME, the KLN94 manual says you should use the
ILS identifier (like KYIP) and load it from the intersection page of the GPS
rather than loading the approach. If you do that method, you could probably
set the GPS to OBS mode and twist the OBS to the inbound heading. ...
Aaron

AaronK wrote in message
...
"Peter" wrote in message
...

"Aaron Kiley" wrote

Seems if you have a GPS with a nice big display, that you'd want to
have
that up for situational awarness and load the ILS for backup/reference.
Then it would be obvious if you were flying off course.

Do you mean making the last leg of the GPS Flight Plan aligned with
the localiser?

There are no official GPS approaches here in the UK but the KLN94B
does contain some things e.g. approach fixes.


Peter.

Peter, In the US, the new KLN94 GPS has all the non-gps approaches in
it's
database for reference. So you can load an ILS (you get a disclaimer that
it's only to be used as reference) and use it as situational awareness.
But
if you need a substitute for DME, the KLN94 manual says you should use the
ILS identifier (like KYIP) and load it from the intersection page of the
GPS
[snip]

I think you mean "...(like IYIP)..." here...

Cheers,
John Clonts
Temple, Texas
N7NZ

use the ILS identifier (like KYIP) and load it from the
intersection

That would be IYIP, rather than KYIP, at least in the US. KYIP would
give you the distance to the airport reference point, and would be off
a considerable distance.

I never found anyone who knew what the OBS mode did

Essentially turns the active waypoint into a VOR, and you can dial in
a specific course to fly to or from that fix.

Peter wrote in message
...

I never found anyone who knew what the OBS mode did - not even the
instructor on a KLN94B all-day course I went on. So I use only the leg
mode, and use the GPS only en-route. Don't laugh


That's very sad indeed!