Why is ADF required for KSAC ILS Rwy 2 SIAP?

There's a NOTAM out for KSAC ILS-2 which states that the following
note should be added to the planview: "ADF Required".

Why is ADF required for this IAP? The marker beacon should tell you
when you're over the LOM, and the missed approach procedure says you
need to hold at the VOR or the NDB.

Is there some requirement for the use of the ADF which I'm not seeing?

Thanks,


--
Mark Hansen, PP-ASEL, Instrument Airplane
Cal Aggie Flying Farmers
Sacramento, CA

"Mark Hansen" wrote in message
...

There's a NOTAM out for KSAC ILS-2 which states that the following
note should be added to the planview: "ADF Required".

Why is ADF required for this IAP? The marker beacon should tell you
when you're over the LOM, and the missed approach procedure says you
need to hold at the VOR or the NDB.

Is there some requirement for the use of the ADF which I'm not seeing?


There are two current NOTAMs for SAC. The one you mentioned, and one
showing the VOR unserviceable. Without the VOR an ADF is needed for the
missed approach.

On 05/02/06 17:14, Steven P. McNicoll wrote:
"Mark Hansen" wrote in message
...

There's a NOTAM out for KSAC ILS-2 which states that the following
note should be added to the planview: "ADF Required".

Why is ADF required for this IAP? The marker beacon should tell you
when you're over the LOM, and the missed approach procedure says you
need to hold at the VOR or the NDB.

Is there some requirement for the use of the ADF which I'm not seeing?


There are two current NOTAMs for SAC. The one you mentioned, and one
showing the VOR unserviceable. Without the VOR an ADF is needed for the
missed approach.



Thanks Stephen.

The VOR being OTS is temporary. It will be out from 9:00AM to 4:00PM
on Wednesday (local time).

I was under the impression that the change to the SIAP was permanent...
Because it was done via an FDC NOTAM. Perhaps I'm off base there?
They said it was AMDT 22C.

So will they then come out with an AMDT 22D which says to remove
the note?

I just didn't think they would make a permanent change (FDC) to the
SAIP for a temporary condition.

--
Mark Hansen, PP-ASEL, Instrument Airplane
Cal Aggie Flying Farmers
Sacramento, CA

"Mark Hansen" wrote in message
...

The VOR being OTS is temporary. It will be out from 9:00AM to 4:00PM
on Wednesday (local time).

I was under the impression that the change to the SIAP was permanent...
Because it was done via an FDC NOTAM. Perhaps I'm off base there?
They said it was AMDT 22C.


The NOTAM says "WIE UNTIL UFN", With Immediate Effect Until Further Notice.
It may not be pernanent.



So will they then come out with an AMDT 22D which says to remove
the note?

I just didn't think they would make a permanent change (FDC) to the
SAIP for a temporary condition.


Once you've spent a few years reading these things you stop trying to find
any logic in them. The VOR outage justifies the amendment to the IAP, but
it's possible they're unrelated.

Mark Hansen wrote:
There's a NOTAM out for KSAC ILS-2 which states that the following
note should be added to the planview: "ADF Required".

Why is ADF required for this IAP? The marker beacon should tell you
when you're over the LOM, and the missed approach procedure says you
need to hold at the VOR or the NDB.

Is there some requirement for the use of the ADF which I'm not seeing?

Thanks,


ADF is required for the transition from COUPS.

Mark Hansen wrote:

On 05/02/06 17:14, Steven P. McNicoll wrote:

"Mark Hansen" wrote in message
...

There's a NOTAM out for KSAC ILS-2 which states that the following
note should be added to the planview: "ADF Required".

Why is ADF required for this IAP? The marker beacon should tell you
when you're over the LOM, and the missed approach procedure says you
need to hold at the VOR or the NDB.

Is there some requirement for the use of the ADF which I'm not seeing?


There are two current NOTAMs for SAC. The one you mentioned, and one
showing the VOR unserviceable. Without the VOR an ADF is needed for the
missed approach.




Thanks Stephen.

The VOR being OTS is temporary. It will be out from 9:00AM to 4:00PM
on Wednesday (local time).

I was under the impression that the change to the SIAP was permanent...
Because it was done via an FDC NOTAM. Perhaps I'm off base there?
They said it was AMDT 22C.

So will they then come out with an AMDT 22D which says to remove
the note?

I just didn't think they would make a permanent change (FDC) to the
SAIP for a temporary condition.


They don't issue Permanent FDC NOTAMS (which is what one is when it
amends the procedure from 22B to 22C). They will sometimes issue a
temporary FDC NOTAM for a facility outage, but never for one day.

These NOTAMS are geared to NACO charts. NACO cannot chart a T FDC
NOTAM. They must chart a P FDC NOTAM.

On 05/02/06 18:57, Mark Hansen wrote:
On 05/02/06 17:14, Steven P. McNicoll wrote:
"Mark Hansen" wrote in message
...

There's a NOTAM out for KSAC ILS-2 which states that the following
note should be added to the planview: "ADF Required".

Why is ADF required for this IAP? The marker beacon should tell you
when you're over the LOM, and the missed approach procedure says you
need to hold at the VOR or the NDB.

Is there some requirement for the use of the ADF which I'm not seeing?


There are two current NOTAMs for SAC. The one you mentioned, and one
showing the VOR unserviceable. Without the VOR an ADF is needed for the
missed approach.



Thanks Stephen.

Oh ... rats. I meant "Steven", of course. Sorry about that.

--
Mark Hansen, PP-ASEL, Instrument Airplane
Cal Aggie Flying Farmers
Sacramento, CA

On 05/03/06 06:19, Sam Spade wrote:
Mark Hansen wrote:
There's a NOTAM out for KSAC ILS-2 which states that the following
note should be added to the planview: "ADF Required".

Why is ADF required for this IAP? The marker beacon should tell you
when you're over the LOM, and the missed approach procedure says you
need to hold at the VOR or the NDB.

Is there some requirement for the use of the ADF which I'm not seeing?

Thanks,


ADF is required for the transition from COUPS.

That's interesting. In all the times I've flown that in training, I
think we've always just used the localizer. However, in looking at
the chart now, the feeder route says "1400 NoPT 015 TO LOM".

However, if you're coming in from COUPS, wouldn't you be on the
localizer before you get to the LOM? After all, by this point,
you're already on the GS. Why would anyone fly the ADF to the
LOM on this approach?


Also, what changed such that the ADF is required now, and wasn't
before? Was it always required, but the chart just didn't say so,
and they are now correcting that?

Thanks,



--
Mark Hansen, PP-ASEL, Instrument Airplane
Cal Aggie Flying Farmers
Sacramento, CA

Mark Hansen wrote:
On 05/03/06 06:19, Sam Spade wrote:

Mark Hansen wrote:

There's a NOTAM out for KSAC ILS-2 which states that the following
note should be added to the planview: "ADF Required".

Why is ADF required for this IAP? The marker beacon should tell you
when you're over the LOM, and the missed approach procedure says you
need to hold at the VOR or the NDB.

Is there some requirement for the use of the ADF which I'm not seeing?

Thanks,



ADF is required for the transition from COUPS.


That's interesting. In all the times I've flown that in training, I
think we've always just used the localizer. However, in looking at
the chart now, the feeder route says "1400 NoPT 015 TO LOM".

However, if you're coming in from COUPS, wouldn't you be on the
localizer before you get to the LOM? After all, by this point,
you're already on the GS. Why would anyone fly the ADF to the
LOM on this approach?


Also, what changed such that the ADF is required now, and wasn't
before? Was it always required, but the chart just didn't say so,
and they are now correcting that?

Thanks,



There is a lot of subjectivity in procedure design. According to my
source, and I quote:

"This is one of those old ILS procedures done by some of our old
pilot/developers years ago. The in NoPT route goes to the LOM, one
reason for ADF required, and the procedure was generating too many
questions. We have it on the list to fix."

"Sam Spade" wrote in message
news:G526g.175119$bm6.2264@fed1read04...

ADF is required for the transition from COUPS.


No it isn't, COUPS is on the SAC 195 radial.