Checkride bust (long)

July 11, 2004 7:30 1.8 hours
Instrument flight test (oral passed 6/25/04, no flight test per WX)

Today was the 4th rescheduled test date, with yesterday afternoon being
weathered out yet again by thunderstorms and low ceilings over the N.C.
mountains. We felt that today would be a better day if we got an early
start, so we rescheduled for 7:30 am. That meant I'd have to get up at 5 am
in order to fly to Andrews-Murphy (KRHP) by 7:30. At 6:30, a call to the FSS
showed RHP with 300 scattered, 600 scattered and an Airmet for the entire
area VFR not recommended. Knoxville (TYS) was clear as a bell, just like it
was at 47A. So I waited. Every half hour, the RHP AWOS showed 300 & 600 or
worse. Then at 10 am, Mr. Jones called and said it was clear, come on up.
Randall got in the plane with me since there was still quite a few clouds
between us and he wanted to make sure that I'd be able to get home if
conditions changed. Sure enough, puffy clouds all over the mountains, but
the valley that RHP was sitting in was clear below 12,000.

We landed and walked up to Mr. Jones office to finalize the paperwork, then
it was out to the plane. All my plates were in place on my kneeboard, in the
order that they'd be required per his briefing. After lifting off, I put the
hood down and he vectored me around in a giant circle to get us out of the
valley and headed to Knoxville. We had to dodge a few clouds that were
building already, but they were no real problem yet. I dialed in the TYS
ATIS, loaded the ILS/DME arc approach, and contacted TYS for vectors. (I had
slight reservations in my mind about the DME approach and the partial panel
VOR. The arc was a concern because I hadn't done very many in real life, and
the partial panel was iffy for me because I was afraid I might foul up the
math determining my timed turns.)

Back to the DME arc. We were vectored to intercept the 102 Volunteer VOR
radial and cleared for the approach. In my mind, I was going to hit the
radial, turn outbound to 7 miles and the follow the radial. But Mr. Jones
wanted me to head directly for the IAF at OTAKY using the GPS display. I
told him that that wasn't my clearance and he tried to explain, but then
stopped and said OK. By this time, I was so close to the 7 mile arc anyway,
I just started flying it, which turned out to be the point he was trying to
make. A few more turns of the OBS than usual, but I held it to 6.9/7.0 all
the way around to the ILS intercept. Smooth as hell from there with the
needles painting a bullseye when the glideslope came in. My 5T's and GUMPS
check (and wonder of wonders, radio calls!) were all done correctly and
without much fanfare. At DH he let me lift the hood and do a smooth T&G, if
I say so myself. Then back down with the hood and back around as he pasted
the stickies on my AI and DG for the VOR partial panel. My vectors from
approach were fairly easy to figure thank God, with only one taking a bit
longer than I would have liked. I saw him start timing how long it took to
me settle into the vector, but it came in right after that. Then they
vectored me onto final approach. With everything dialed in and my timed
turns working fairly well, things seemed to be going fairly smoothly. But
then... a bit left of my course, almost over the VOR, there's the zone of
confusion and the needle pegs right, the TO flag shuddered and flopped over
and is now showing FROM... and the...needle...stays...pegged. Now I'm
turning left, only making it worse, and by now it's too late with a full
deflection, I realize what I've done, so I called my missed and shoved
everything forward.

Sigh.

We quietly climbed to our assigned altitude and requested clearance back to
RHP. Approach gave us a vector and we headed back. I now had 30 miles to
think, with one hold and one GPS approach still to fly. I knew I was coming
back, but I was resolved to only have to retest the partial panel. The hold
was part of the GPS approach, so I loaded that and after we crossed the IAF,
a teardrop entry and another full lap that went well. Then we shot the
remainder of the approach. I went all the way to minimums without busting,
and then he let me lift the hood and land.

Mr. Jones is now on vacation and will be out of state for two weeks. He
offered to set me up with another examiner to get the retest done sooner,
but I said no. I'm not in a hurry for this rating, I'll just get a few more
practice flights in and do it right the next time.
--
Jeff 'The Wizard of Draws' Bucchino
Cartoons with a Touch of Magic�
www.wizardofdraws.com
www.cartoonclipart.com

Not the right result, of course, but it seems as though you had all your
ducks in a row. Could have happened to anyone. Give it hell next time.

Bob Gardner

"Wizard of Draws" wrote in message
news:BD172E07.166AB%jeffbREMOVE@REMOVEwizardofdraw s.com...
July 11, 2004 7:30 1.8 hours
Instrument flight test (oral passed 6/25/04, no flight test per WX)

Today was the 4th rescheduled test date, with yesterday afternoon being
weathered out yet again by thunderstorms and low ceilings over the N.C.
mountains. We felt that today would be a better day if we got an early
start, so we rescheduled for 7:30 am. That meant I'd have to get up at 5
am
in order to fly to Andrews-Murphy (KRHP) by 7:30. At 6:30, a call to the
FSS
showed RHP with 300 scattered, 600 scattered and an Airmet for the entire
area VFR not recommended. Knoxville (TYS) was clear as a bell, just like
it
was at 47A. So I waited. Every half hour, the RHP AWOS showed 300 & 600 or
worse. Then at 10 am, Mr. Jones called and said it was clear, come on up.
Randall got in the plane with me since there was still quite a few clouds
between us and he wanted to make sure that I'd be able to get home if
conditions changed. Sure enough, puffy clouds all over the mountains, but
the valley that RHP was sitting in was clear below 12,000.

We landed and walked up to Mr. Jones office to finalize the paperwork,
then
it was out to the plane. All my plates were in place on my kneeboard, in
the
order that they'd be required per his briefing. After lifting off, I put
the
hood down and he vectored me around in a giant circle to get us out of the
valley and headed to Knoxville. We had to dodge a few clouds that were
building already, but they were no real problem yet. I dialed in the TYS
ATIS, loaded the ILS/DME arc approach, and contacted TYS for vectors. (I
had
slight reservations in my mind about the DME approach and the partial
panel
VOR. The arc was a concern because I hadn't done very many in real life,
and
the partial panel was iffy for me because I was afraid I might foul up the
math determining my timed turns.)

Back to the DME arc. We were vectored to intercept the 102 Volunteer VOR
radial and cleared for the approach. In my mind, I was going to hit the
radial, turn outbound to 7 miles and the follow the radial. But Mr. Jones
wanted me to head directly for the IAF at OTAKY using the GPS display. I
told him that that wasn't my clearance and he tried to explain, but then
stopped and said OK. By this time, I was so close to the 7 mile arc
anyway,
I just started flying it, which turned out to be the point he was trying
to
make. A few more turns of the OBS than usual, but I held it to 6.9/7.0 all
the way around to the ILS intercept. Smooth as hell from there with the
needles painting a bullseye when the glideslope came in. My 5T's and GUMPS
check (and wonder of wonders, radio calls!) were all done correctly and
without much fanfare. At DH he let me lift the hood and do a smooth T&G,
if
I say so myself. Then back down with the hood and back around as he pasted
the stickies on my AI and DG for the VOR partial panel. My vectors from
approach were fairly easy to figure thank God, with only one taking a bit
longer than I would have liked. I saw him start timing how long it took to
me settle into the vector, but it came in right after that. Then they
vectored me onto final approach. With everything dialed in and my timed
turns working fairly well, things seemed to be going fairly smoothly. But
then... a bit left of my course, almost over the VOR, there's the zone of
confusion and the needle pegs right, the TO flag shuddered and flopped
over
and is now showing FROM... and the...needle...stays...pegged. Now I'm
turning left, only making it worse, and by now it's too late with a full
deflection, I realize what I've done, so I called my missed and shoved
everything forward.

Sigh.

We quietly climbed to our assigned altitude and requested clearance back
to
RHP. Approach gave us a vector and we headed back. I now had 30 miles to
think, with one hold and one GPS approach still to fly. I knew I was
coming
back, but I was resolved to only have to retest the partial panel. The
hold
was part of the GPS approach, so I loaded that and after we crossed the
IAF,
a teardrop entry and another full lap that went well. Then we shot the
remainder of the approach. I went all the way to minimums without busting,
and then he let me lift the hood and land.

Mr. Jones is now on vacation and will be out of state for two weeks. He
offered to set me up with another examiner to get the retest done sooner,
but I said no. I'm not in a hurry for this rating, I'll just get a few
more
practice flights in and do it right the next time.
--
Jeff 'The Wizard of Draws' Bucchino
Cartoons with a Touch of Magic�
www.wizardofdraws.com
www.cartoonclipart.com

"Wizard of Draws" wrote:
and the...needle...stays...pegged. Now I'm turning
left, only making it worse, and by now it's too late
with a full deflection, I realize what I've done, so
I called my missed and shoved everything forward.

Sigh.

Aw, shoot!

****es you off, doesn't it? Well, join the club; it happens to the best
of us. You did the right thing and went missed. The d. e. didn't have
to terminate the flight; you showed you basically knew what you were
doing. Next time you'll nail it.
--
Dan
C172RG at BFM

Sounds like you did well, but there is an alternate way of interpreting
the VOR that would avoid exactly the type of situation you got into. I
have a description of the method on my website:
http://131.238.38.204/~sarangan/avia...or-article.pdf


Wizard of Draws wrote in
news:BD172E07.166AB%jeffbREMOVE@REMOVEwizardofdraw s.com:

July 11, 2004 7:30 1.8 hours
Instrument flight test (oral passed 6/25/04, no flight test per WX)

Today was the 4th rescheduled test date, with yesterday afternoon
being weathered out yet again by thunderstorms and low ceilings over
the N.C. mountains. We felt that today would be a better day if we got
an early start, so we rescheduled for 7:30 am. That meant I'd have to
get up at 5 am in order to fly to Andrews-Murphy (KRHP) by 7:30. At
6:30, a call to the FSS showed RHP with 300 scattered, 600 scattered
and an Airmet for the entire area VFR not recommended. Knoxville (TYS)
was clear as a bell, just like it was at 47A. So I waited. Every half
hour, the RHP AWOS showed 300 & 600 or worse. Then at 10 am, Mr. Jones
called and said it was clear, come on up. Randall got in the plane
with me since there was still quite a few clouds between us and he
wanted to make sure that I'd be able to get home if conditions
changed. Sure enough, puffy clouds all over the mountains, but the
valley that RHP was sitting in was clear below 12,000.

We landed and walked up to Mr. Jones office to finalize the paperwork,
then it was out to the plane. All my plates were in place on my
kneeboard, in the order that they'd be required per his briefing.
After lifting off, I put the hood down and he vectored me around in a
giant circle to get us out of the valley and headed to Knoxville. We
had to dodge a few clouds that were building already, but they were no
real problem yet. I dialed in the TYS ATIS, loaded the ILS/DME arc
approach, and contacted TYS for vectors. (I had slight reservations in
my mind about the DME approach and the partial panel VOR. The arc was
a concern because I hadn't done very many in real life, and the
partial panel was iffy for me because I was afraid I might foul up the
math determining my timed turns.)

Back to the DME arc. We were vectored to intercept the 102 Volunteer
VOR radial and cleared for the approach. In my mind, I was going to
hit the radial, turn outbound to 7 miles and the follow the radial.
But Mr. Jones wanted me to head directly for the IAF at OTAKY using
the GPS display. I told him that that wasn't my clearance and he tried
to explain, but then stopped and said OK. By this time, I was so close
to the 7 mile arc anyway, I just started flying it, which turned out
to be the point he was trying to make. A few more turns of the OBS
than usual, but I held it to 6.9/7.0 all the way around to the ILS
intercept. Smooth as hell from there with the needles painting a
bullseye when the glideslope came in. My 5T's and GUMPS check (and
wonder of wonders, radio calls!) were all done correctly and without
much fanfare. At DH he let me lift the hood and do a smooth T&G, if
I say so myself. Then back down with the hood and back around as he
pasted the stickies on my AI and DG for the VOR partial panel. My
vectors from approach were fairly easy to figure thank God, with only
one taking a bit longer than I would have liked. I saw him start
timing how long it took to me settle into the vector, but it came in
right after that. Then they vectored me onto final approach. With
everything dialed in and my timed turns working fairly well, things
seemed to be going fairly smoothly. But then... a bit left of my
course, almost over the VOR, there's the zone of confusion and the
needle pegs right, the TO flag shuddered and flopped over and is now
showing FROM... and the...needle...stays...pegged. Now I'm turning
left, only making it worse, and by now it's too late with a full
deflection, I realize what I've done, so I called my missed and shoved
everything forward.

Sigh.

We quietly climbed to our assigned altitude and requested clearance
back to RHP. Approach gave us a vector and we headed back. I now had
30 miles to think, with one hold and one GPS approach still to fly. I
knew I was coming back, but I was resolved to only have to retest the
partial panel. The hold was part of the GPS approach, so I loaded that
and after we crossed the IAF, a teardrop entry and another full lap
that went well. Then we shot the remainder of the approach. I went all
the way to minimums without busting, and then he let me lift the hood
and land.

Mr. Jones is now on vacation and will be out of state for two weeks.
He offered to set me up with another examiner to get the retest done
sooner, but I said no. I'm not in a hurry for this rating, I'll just
get a few more practice flights in and do it right the next time.

Wizard of Draws wrote:
I knew I was coming back, but I was resolved to only have to retest
the partial panel.

It's a bummer that you failed, but don't sweat it. The instrument
rating is about the hardest thing you'll ever do in your life, and lots
of people don't pass it on the first try. I didn't.

Here's a method I learned a while ago for partial panel flying that
works really well. This only works if you are flying towards the
navaid, i.e. a localizer/ILS, or a terminal VOR approach. Andrew
Sarangan may not like it, becuase it uses the CDI as a "fly-left,
fly-right" indicator :-)

Once you are established on the course, just watch the CDI. If the CDI
needle is not moving, or if it's moving but it's moving back towards the
center, DO NOTHING. Just hold zero rate of turn on the TC and wait. If
the CDI needle stays sill, great. If it starts to move back in towards
the center, even better.

If the CDI needle is deflected to the left (i.e. a "fly left"
indication), and moving more to the left, start a half rate standard
turn to the left. Keep turning left until the needle stops moving.
Don't try to center the needle, just get it to stop moving.

Likewise, if the needle is deflected to the right and moving more to the
right, start a half standard rate turn to the right, and keep turning
until the needle stops moving.

Don't ever waste any effort trying to get the needle centered, just get
it to stop moving. If you fly a localizer a constant 2 dots one side of
course or the other all the way to the MAP, you'll find the runway just
as surely as you will if you've got the needle centered.

The trick is to never exceed half standard rate turns. If you try to
make full rate turns, you'll be doing wild S-turns on both sides of the
course. Keeping it half rate keeps the excursions small enough that you
just get on the course and hold it. If you've ever done a no-gyros ASR,
you'll recognize the technique; it's basicly what the radar controller
tells you to do as he talks you down the final approach course.

Likewise, this only works going towards the navaid. If you keep a
constant CDI deflection going towards the navaid, your lateral
cross-track error keeps getting smaller and smaller. Going away from
the navaid, it keeps getting bigger and bigger.

The other interesting thing to notice is that nowhere in the description
of how it works do you need to know what your heading is! Most people
don't believe this works until I prove it to them. I cover the DG and
let them make timed compass turns in response to ATC vectors to get them
on final. Then I cover up the compass and after they get done wetting
their pants and get down to following the needle as described above,
they usually end up flying the best damn partial panel ILS they've ever
flown.

Make no mistake about it, it's fun to practice silly things like partial
panel non-precision approaches (I could fly a pretty mean p/p NDB at one
time, long ago) but it's not the thing to do if you lose your gyros in
real life. If that happens to you in real life, you should try the
following in order:

1) Get no-gyro vectors to the nearest VFR airport.

2) Get no-gyro vectors to a no-gyro ASR approach (you really should seek
out and practice this one or twice on an IPC so you know what it's like
ahead of time).

3) Get no-gyro vectors to an ILS.

Never gotten no-gyro vectors? Talk to your local approach control guys
to find out what it's all about ("start turn", "stop turn"), then go out
and practice it.

On 12 Jul 2004 01:46:58 GMT, Andrew Sarangan
wrote:

Sounds like you did well, but there is an alternate way of interpreting
the VOR that would avoid exactly the type of situation you got into. I
have a description of the method on my website:
http://131.238.38.204/~sarangan/avia...or-article.pdf


Cool article. Do you know if this was the original intent of using a
VOR?

Thanks.
z

that sucks - I know when I took my checkride, we were doing a DME arc into
provo with the hood on in utah and the examiner started asking questions
like, "so why aviation?" "want to be an airline pilot?" "what kind of plane
do you plan on flying in the future?"

while I was answering and everything had gone perfectly up to that point
(last app.) I blew through the final app. course inbound.. she said she was
out of time and I failed the checkride..which kinda made me mad because she
did that on purpose.. but I know it was my fault

So I feel your pain there Jeff - good lessons, just showed in real life if
that would have been IMC we both would have been in trouble but you'll be
ready for the next one

good luck,

Matthew

I teach that method of VOR usage, having learned it from
http://www.campbells.org/Airplanes/Diary/prologue.html and
http://www.campbells.org/Airplanes/VOR/vor.html .

I like your explanation.

New students learning it for the first time do better than the "fly toward
the needle" method. Trying to convert someone from the traditional method
is very difficult.

But it is so very simple. There are just three rules. Fly headings.
Headings on the same side of the OBS as the CDI needle take you toward the
dialed-in radial (at the top or bottom index mark, doesn't matter). The
Station Heading Indicator (SHI) arrow (TO/FROM indicator) points to the half
of the OBS containing the headings that take you toward the station. And
for VOR navigation, there are no special cases, no exceptions. You could
add a fourth rule: Fly Headings.

Get those three rules in your head, and everything is so immediately obvious
on the VOR indicator.

Stan


"Andrew Sarangan" wrote in message
. 158...
Sounds like you did well, but there is an alternate way of interpreting
the VOR that would avoid exactly the type of situation you got into. I
have a description of the method on my website:
http://131.238.38.204/~sarangan/avia...or-article.pdf


Wizard of Draws wrote in
news:BD172E07.166AB%jeffbREMOVE@REMOVEwizardofdraw s.com:

July 11, 2004 7:30 1.8 hours
Instrument flight test (oral passed 6/25/04, no flight test per WX)

Today was the 4th rescheduled test date, with yesterday afternoon
being weathered out yet again by thunderstorms and low ceilings over
the N.C. mountains. We felt that today would be a better day if we got
an early start, so we rescheduled for 7:30 am. That meant I'd have to
get up at 5 am in order to fly to Andrews-Murphy (KRHP) by 7:30. At
6:30, a call to the FSS showed RHP with 300 scattered, 600 scattered
and an Airmet for the entire area VFR not recommended. Knoxville (TYS)
was clear as a bell, just like it was at 47A. So I waited. Every half
hour, the RHP AWOS showed 300 & 600 or worse. Then at 10 am, Mr. Jones
called and said it was clear, come on up. Randall got in the plane
with me since there was still quite a few clouds between us and he
wanted to make sure that I'd be able to get home if conditions
changed. Sure enough, puffy clouds all over the mountains, but the
valley that RHP was sitting in was clear below 12,000.

We landed and walked up to Mr. Jones office to finalize the paperwork,
then it was out to the plane. All my plates were in place on my
kneeboard, in the order that they'd be required per his briefing.
After lifting off, I put the hood down and he vectored me around in a
giant circle to get us out of the valley and headed to Knoxville. We
had to dodge a few clouds that were building already, but they were no
real problem yet. I dialed in the TYS ATIS, loaded the ILS/DME arc
approach, and contacted TYS for vectors. (I had slight reservations in
my mind about the DME approach and the partial panel VOR. The arc was
a concern because I hadn't done very many in real life, and the
partial panel was iffy for me because I was afraid I might foul up the
math determining my timed turns.)

Back to the DME arc. We were vectored to intercept the 102 Volunteer
VOR radial and cleared for the approach. In my mind, I was going to
hit the radial, turn outbound to 7 miles and the follow the radial.
But Mr. Jones wanted me to head directly for the IAF at OTAKY using
the GPS display. I told him that that wasn't my clearance and he tried
to explain, but then stopped and said OK. By this time, I was so close
to the 7 mile arc anyway, I just started flying it, which turned out
to be the point he was trying to make. A few more turns of the OBS
than usual, but I held it to 6.9/7.0 all the way around to the ILS
intercept. Smooth as hell from there with the needles painting a
bullseye when the glideslope came in. My 5T's and GUMPS check (and
wonder of wonders, radio calls!) were all done correctly and without
much fanfare. At DH he let me lift the hood and do a smooth T&G, if
I say so myself. Then back down with the hood and back around as he
pasted the stickies on my AI and DG for the VOR partial panel. My
vectors from approach were fairly easy to figure thank God, with only
one taking a bit longer than I would have liked. I saw him start
timing how long it took to me settle into the vector, but it came in
right after that. Then they vectored me onto final approach. With
everything dialed in and my timed turns working fairly well, things
seemed to be going fairly smoothly. But then... a bit left of my
course, almost over the VOR, there's the zone of confusion and the
needle pegs right, the TO flag shuddered and flopped over and is now
showing FROM... and the...needle...stays...pegged. Now I'm turning
left, only making it worse, and by now it's too late with a full
deflection, I realize what I've done, so I called my missed and shoved
everything forward.

Sigh.

We quietly climbed to our assigned altitude and requested clearance
back to RHP. Approach gave us a vector and we headed back. I now had
30 miles to think, with one hold and one GPS approach still to fly. I
knew I was coming back, but I was resolved to only have to retest the
partial panel. The hold was part of the GPS approach, so I loaded that
and after we crossed the IAF, a teardrop entry and another full lap
that went well. Then we shot the remainder of the approach. I went all
the way to minimums without busting, and then he let me lift the hood
and land.

Mr. Jones is now on vacation and will be out of state for two weeks.
He offered to set me up with another examiner to get the retest done
sooner, but I said no. I'm not in a hurry for this rating, I'll just
get a few more practice flights in and do it right the next time.

Andrew Sarangan wrote:

Sounds like you did well, but there is an alternate way of interpreting
the VOR that would avoid exactly the type of situation you got into. I
have a description of the method on my website:
http://131.238.38.204/~sarangan/avia...or-article.pdf


Yes, this is the way to do it! This is the same method explained on
Dogan's IFR book and one reason I found that one of the best training
books when I was getting my instrument rating.


Matt

On 7/11/04 6:49 PM, in article , "Bob
Gardner" wrote:

Not the right result, of course, but it seems as though you had all your
ducks in a row. Could have happened to anyone. Give it hell next time.

Bob Gardner


Thanks for all the encouragement guys. I'm actually surprised at how easily
I've let it roll off my back. It was a long flight back home and I felt like
I had disappointed my instructors, but I've realized that even though I'd
like to be perfect, I'm not and stuff happens. I'll get it done and then go
looking for some IMC to practice with. Shouldn't be too hard this time of
year around here...
--
Jeff 'The Wizard of Draws' Bucchino
Cartoons with a Touch of Magic�
www.wizardofdraws.com
www.cartoonclipart.com