Training Q - Is this appropriate

Scott D. wrote:


WTH are you talking about.
The terms of insurance at his fllight school.

As for the other, where do you draw the line?

Student "pretty much ready" or the student really ready?

If the instructor is "suggesting" a trip based on his desire to go
somewhere, or if the student is asking for more extensive experience?

Is this a case of the student suffering a lack of motivation and this
would be a good thing to perk up the enthusiasim?

Of course you don't see any conflict of interest in the "suggestion
making". You probalby would argue that it is the first time this "idea
and destination" have happened with this instructor and student? If the
motivation is to save the students money then why didn't the benevolent
instructor waive his fees in the first place? Why does a flight
instructor say, "I don't want payment"?

This is a form of student abuse. Not always, but your inability to
consider the posibility says something too doesn't it. I'm looking out
for Matt, not your feelings.

Why shouldn't Matt finish things spending his time really training?
Wouldn't it be better for him and his family? If something ever happened
one day should they look back and think, "Geee, he was ready for his
ride sooo early the instructor didn't want to charge him any more money
and they just goofed off, short cutting the training, visiting the
instructors relatives."

There are times and places for this but yau have to be alert for the
obvious potential of abuse. Are you oblivious to this or do you
acknowledge the potential. And Scott, if you do acknowledge the
potential, pray, teach us all what any warning signs might be.
Or do you choose, "I am oblivious".

Matt wrote the subject line.

It sounds like Matt is taking things seriously and wants to work and
isn't really needing a motivational flight. So, to who's benifit is it?

Is it a mistake for Matt to tell his instructor he wants to keep up the
workload and trainging and will get experience when he has his ticket to
learn?

No we can't tell from this vantage point. Either way.

Gosh Scott, you sure do hit hard. And you are really fearless about
liability issues. I've learned my lesson.

On Thu, 05 Aug 2004 07:39:18 -0400, Jules
wrote:



Scott D. wrote:


WTH are you talking about.
The terms of insurance at his fllight school.

Again this is a training flight. The insurance requirements are meet.
There is no clause about if the flight goes over a specific amount of
time/distance, it is null and void! If you go to a school that would
do that, you need to find another place to learn, because they would
probably not cover you for anything. He is not breaking any regulation
by conducting this flight. If you can find one that he is breaking,
please site.

Of course you don't see any conflict of interest in the "suggestion
making". You probalby would argue that it is the first time this "idea
and destination" have happened with this instructor and student? If the
motivation is to save the students money then why didn't the benevolent
instructor waive his fees in the first place? Why does a flight
instructor say, "I don't want payment"?
Sounds like you were reading way to much into the OP's original post
or only reading what you wanted to. The instructor did waive his fee
without being asked to.

===snip===
" He has a daughter living in Denver and had suggested making a trip
there, with me covering the cost of the plane (I'd be doing that
anyway) and him instructing at no charge."

===end snip===

Besides there are many reason, I waive my fee for students. I'm still
trying to figure out why you think that this is abuse of the student.
The student is getting valuable training at a decreased cost to him.


This is a form of student abuse. Not always, but your inability to
consider the posibility says something too doesn't it. I'm looking out
for Matt, not your feelings.

Now if this had been a situation where Matt was working on his private
ticket and this came up, I would question it, but because this is for
his IFR certification, he has to do a long cross country anyway's and
this is excellent experience for any instrument student to do. And as
Matt pointed out to you that he was ready and just needed the time.
Just because he chose to use the words "pretty much ready" does not
mean that those were the exact words of his instructor; notice he did
not put that phrase into quotes. I took his question here to be more
a legality issue and not of an abuse issue. He wanted to make sure
that he was not breaking some reg.

Why shouldn't Matt finish things spending his time really training?
Why do you not see flying cross country on an IFR flight plan flying
under the hood *or IMC) from VOR to VOR (or any other way to navigate
by instruments) into a very busy Class B airspace not training?

Wouldn't it be better for him and his family? If something ever happened
one day should they look back and think, "Geee, he was ready for his
ride sooo early the instructor didn't want to charge him any more money
and they just goofed off, short cutting the training, visiting the
instructors relatives."

Again show me where he is NOT training!

There are times and places for this but yau have to be alert for the
obvious potential of abuse. Are you oblivious to this or do you
acknowledge the potential. And Scott, if you do acknowledge the
potential, pray, teach us all what any warning signs might be.
Or do you choose, "I am oblivious".

See above line about this being an IFR training flight and not a
private pilot flight.

Matt wrote the subject line.

It sounds like Matt is taking things seriously and wants to work and
isn't really needing a motivational flight. So, to who's benifit is it?

He is benefiting by seeing how the air traffic control system works in
other parts of the country. If you don't think that things are run
differently in different regions, you need to get out more. If he
came to Denver I hope that he made a stop into Centennial (APA). They
tend to do things a lot different then any other place I fly out of.

Is it a mistake for Matt to tell his instructor he wants to keep up the
workload and trainging and will get experience when he has his ticket to
learn?

Same thing. Show me how this flight would not be a learning flight.

No we can't tell from this vantage point. Either way.

Gosh Scott, you sure do hit hard. And you are really fearless about
liability issues. I've learned my lesson.

Where is the liability??? It is a training flight. Grant it, it is a
little (well more than a little, I concede) longer than what is
required but if the student is ready and he needs the hours to be
eligible to take the practical, what is wrong getting REAL world
experience at the same time?


Scott D