NTSB final report on Hendrick crash

PDF from NTSB http://www.ntsb.gov/publictn/2006/AAB0601.pdf

Jim Macklin wrote:
PDF from NTSB http://www.ntsb.gov/publictn/2006/AAB0601.pdf



No surprise there.

"Peter" wrote in message


Unless I am missing something obvious, this sort of thing should not
happen if the pilot has a picture showing his position relative to the
rest of the place.

The picture doesn't always help.

I was once safety pilot for a CFI candidate flying an ILS with a moving map
system. Even though the picture clearly showed the holding pattern, he
nonetheless turned the wrong way to do his course reversal on the wrong side
of the FAC.

My point is this was a simple mistake made by an experienced pilot I trust.
If it can happen to him, it can happen to me - or baseball stars.

Unfortunately, our activity can be quite unforgiving of mistakes.

--
John T
http://sage1solutions.com/blogs/TknoFlyer
Reduce spam. Use Sender Policy Framework: http://openspf.org
____________________

He had a GPS, but as a high time commuter pilot in a BE1900,
he didn't know how to use it. Their GPS was not current for
IFR, but they were using it. When they crossed the LOM, the
GPS autocycled to the MAP WPT and the crew just did a turn
about a point and flew at the IAP altitude past the airport
and died.




"Peter" wrote in message
...
|
| "Jim Macklin" wrote
|
| PDF from NTSB
http://www.ntsb.gov/publictn/2006/AAB0601.pdf
|
|
| Having read a fair few reports of aircraft flown by
professional crew,
| perhaps commercially, it amazes me how many do not have
what one would
| call a moving map GPS.
|
| Unless I am missing something obvious, this sort of thing
should not
| happen if the pilot has a picture showing his position
relative to the
| rest of the place.

John T wrote:

"Peter" wrote in message


Unless I am missing something obvious, this sort of thing should not
happen if the pilot has a picture showing his position relative to the
rest of the place.


The picture doesn't always help.

I was once safety pilot for a CFI candidate flying an ILS with a moving map
system. Even though the picture clearly showed the holding pattern, he
nonetheless turned the wrong way to do his course reversal on the wrong side
of the FAC.

My point is this was a simple mistake made by an experienced pilot I trust.
If it can happen to him, it can happen to me - or baseball stars.

Bassball stars are hobby pilots.

This crew was supposed to be highly-trained, experienced professionals.
The gross errors they made were inexcusable.

For a pro who understands the complete system, DME on a LOC makes it
very easy to know where you are at any time. All the essential
information provided by a moving map is provided by a localizer with DME
fixes.

Jim Macklin wrote:
He had a GPS, but as a high time commuter pilot in a BE1900,
he didn't know how to use it. Their GPS was not current for
IFR, but they were using it. When they crossed the LOM, the
GPS autocycled to the MAP WPT and the crew just did a turn
about a point and flew at the IAP altitude past the airport
and died.

I'm not familiar with the KLN 90B but fly a Garmin 300XL which I believe
is of similar vintage and function. In addition, my single CDI is wired
so that it would auto-connect to the NAV radio when tuned to a LOC signal.

Using the Garmin on such an approach to function in place of the ADF and
DME, I would have programmed it similarly. However, flying the
approach would require switching it from 'auto-sequence' to 'hold' just
before passing BALES for the holding pattern turn. That would keep
BALES as the next waypoint. Once inbound to BALES, I would have
switched it to auto=sequence.

Does the KLN 90B function similarly? That is, is there a Hold switch?

MauleDriver

In article ,
"Jim Macklin" wrote:

He had a GPS, but as a high time commuter pilot in a BE1900,
he didn't know how to use it.

As someone who flew many hours with the captain of that flight, at the
airline that flew those 1900s, I can say without a doubt that you have
no idea what you're talking about.

Here's a cockpit shot of one of the 1900s he flew:
http://www.airliners.net/open.file/0585758/L/

I'll leave it as an exercise for you to identify the device sitting next
to the copilot's RMI.

Sam Spade wrote:

This crew was supposed to be highly-trained, experienced
professionals. The gross errors they made were inexcusable.

I agree. I also suggest this exercise isn't about finding excuses.

--
John T
http://sage1solutions.com/TknoFlyer
http://www.pocketgear.com/products_s...veloperid=4415
Reduce spam. Use Sender Policy Framework: http://spf.pobox.com
____________________

John T wrote:
Sam Spade wrote:

This crew was supposed to be highly-trained, experienced
professionals. The gross errors they made were inexcusable.


I agree. I also suggest this exercise isn't about finding excuses.

I hope no one is trying to find excuses.

in·ex·cus·a·ble adjective
unpardonable: impossible to pardon or justify

Encarta® World English Dictionary © & (P) 1999,2000 Microsoft
Corporation. All rights reserved. Developed for Microsoft by Bloomsbury
Publishing Plc.

It's a KLN909b GPS I guess. Granted that the crew knew how to use it
and granted that the dating of the database had no impact, the cause
seems to be a loss of situational awareness due in some part to misuse
of the GPS.

It seems that they 'half used' the GPS for this non-GPS approach and
then 'over relied' on the GPS over use of the radio aids. That is, they
setup the GPS to lead them to the FAF but neglected to press the hold
button before reaching the IAF for the hold. No problem with that as
long as you realize what you are doing and continue to use the DME, ADF,
and RMI for identification of the various fixes.

I'll bet this crew could have turned off the GPS and nailed this
approach 1,000 times in a row without incident, or conversersely used
the GPS exclusively with the Loc and NDB out of service and done the same.

Beavis wrote:
In article ,
"Jim Macklin" wrote:


He had a GPS, but as a high time commuter pilot in a BE1900,
he didn't know how to use it.


As someone who flew many hours with the captain of that flight, at the
airline that flew those 1900s, I can say without a doubt that you have
no idea what you're talking about.

Here's a cockpit shot of one of the 1900s he flew:
http://www.airliners.net/open.file/0585758/L/

I'll leave it as an exercise for you to identify the device sitting next
to the copilot's RMI.