Holding Pattern Question

I'm probably over-thinking holding patterns and have become confused.

When given instructions to hold at a non-published holding pattern, ATC will
specify:

1. The direction from the fix, such as north, north-east, etc.
2. The name of the holding fix.
3. The radial, course, or airway on which the aircraft is to hold.
4. The leg length and direction of turns if they are not standard.
5. The expect further clearance time.

Here's my question: If I'm told to hold on a radial (as opposed to a
course), does that mean that I'm flying away from the station when I'm "on
course" in the holding pattern?

For example, I'm given the instruction, "Hold south of the VOR on the 180°
radial, expect further clearance in 15 minutes." Once I get established in
the holding pattern, do I track inbound to the station on the 180° radial or
do I track outbound on the 180° radial?

How would that be different if I were given the same instructions, except
hold on the 180° course (instead of the 180° radial)?

Thanks,
Dennis

"Dennis Johnson" wrote:

Here's my question: If I'm told to hold on a radial (as opposed to a
course), does that mean that I'm flying away from the station when I'm "on
course" in the holding pattern?

No. It means that you fly to the fix *on* the radial. IOW you are to be on
the radial when inbound to the fix.

For example, I'm given the instruction, "Hold south of the VOR on the 180°
radial, expect further clearance in 15 minutes." Once I get established in
the holding pattern, do I track inbound to the station on the 180° radial
or do I track outbound on the 180° radial?

Inbound.

How would that be different if I were given the same instructions, except
hold on the 180° course (instead of the 180° radial)?

You won't be given that instruction, at least not by a controller who knows
what he's doing.

--
Dan
T-182T at BFM

Dennis Johnson wrote:


For example, I'm given the instruction, "Hold south of the VOR on the 180°
radial, expect further clearance in 15 minutes." Once I get established in
the holding pattern, do I track inbound to the station on the 180° radial or
do I track outbound on the 180° radial?

Inbound. The fix and radial define the inbound side of a hold.

Dan Luke wrote:
"Dennis Johnson" wrote:

How would that be different if I were given the same instructions, except
hold on the 180° course (instead of the 180° radial)?

You won't be given that instruction, at least not by a controller who knows
what he's doing.

The only context in which "course" might be used, that I can think of,
is where you might be cleared to hold on a "final approach course".

DB

On 09/24/07 10:42, Dennis Johnson wrote:
I'm probably over-thinking holding patterns and have become confused.

When given instructions to hold at a non-published holding pattern, ATC will
specify:

1. The direction from the fix, such as north, north-east, etc.
2. The name of the holding fix.
3. The radial, course, or airway on which the aircraft is to hold.
4. The leg length and direction of turns if they are not standard.
5. The expect further clearance time.

Here's my question: If I'm told to hold on a radial (as opposed to a
course), does that mean that I'm flying away from the station when I'm "on
course" in the holding pattern?

You always hold at the fix. You are on the holding course when flying to
the fix.


For example, I'm given the instruction, "Hold south of the VOR on the 180�
radial, expect further clearance in 15 minutes." Once I get established in
the holding pattern, do I track inbound to the station on the 180� radial or
do I track outbound on the 180� radial?

You fly toward the fix (the VOR in this case) on the holding radial (180
in this case). If you remember that you always fly to the fix, you won't
be able to mix these up.


How would that be different if I were given the same instructions, except
hold on the 180� course (instead of the 180� radial)?

I would ask the controller for a clarification. Have a look at the 7110.65
to see what they will do for holding instructions.


Thanks,
Dennis






--
Mark Hansen, PP-ASEL, Instrument Airplane, USUA Ultralight Pilot
Cal Aggie Flying Farmers
Sacramento, CA

You have received excellent answers, but that won't keep me from piling
on....when inbound to the fix, you have navigational guidance; on the
outbound leg you are using dead reckoning. You never fly outbound with
navigational guidance.

Bob Gardner

"Dennis Johnson" wrote in message
. ..
I'm probably over-thinking holding patterns and have become confused.

When given instructions to hold at a non-published holding pattern, ATC
will specify:

1. The direction from the fix, such as north, north-east, etc.
2. The name of the holding fix.
3. The radial, course, or airway on which the aircraft is to hold.
4. The leg length and direction of turns if they are not standard.
5. The expect further clearance time.

Here's my question: If I'm told to hold on a radial (as opposed to a
course), does that mean that I'm flying away from the station when I'm "on
course" in the holding pattern?

For example, I'm given the instruction, "Hold south of the VOR on the 180°
radial, expect further clearance in 15 minutes." Once I get established
in the holding pattern, do I track inbound to the station on the 180°
radial or do I track outbound on the 180° radial?

How would that be different if I were given the same instructions, except
hold on the 180° course (instead of the 180° radial)?

Thanks,
Dennis

Thanks so much for the speedy and excellent answers to my question about
holding! I have returned to flying after a decades-long absence and am
going to start flying with an instructor tomorrow to prep for the IPC. It's
amazing how much I've forgotten. At least this is one mistake I won't make.

Thanks,
Dennis

"Dennis Johnson" wrote in message
. ..

I'm probably over-thinking holding patterns and have become confused.

When given instructions to hold at a non-published holding pattern, ATC
will specify:

1. The direction from the fix, such as north, north-east, etc.
2. The name of the holding fix.
3. The radial, course, or airway on which the aircraft is to hold.
4. The leg length and direction of turns if they are not standard.
5. The expect further clearance time.


An EFC is not issued if no delay is expected.

Steven P. McNicoll wrote:
"Dennis Johnson" wrote in message
. ..
I'm probably over-thinking holding patterns and have become confused.

When given instructions to hold at a non-published holding pattern, ATC
will specify:

1. The direction from the fix, such as north, north-east, etc.
2. The name of the holding fix.
3. The radial, course, or airway on which the aircraft is to hold.
4. The leg length and direction of turns if they are not standard.
5. The expect further clearance time.


An EFC is not issued if no delay is expected.



If no delay is expected, why issue a hold?

Matt

On Mon, 24 Sep 2007 23:32:00 GMT, Matt Whiting
wrote:

If no delay is expected, why issue a hold?


Because people who write written exams need a reason to ask a
question? G