Who's Boss?

I'm flying into my home base KHKS at night in a single engine airplane. At
no point have I been outside of glide range to an airport. I am VFR shooting
a practice full approach in Class C airspace going into a Class D airport.
The controller wants me to descend to 2,000 feet five miles before the FAF
for traffic (which I can plainly see.) I want to stay at 4,000 and stay
within glide range and descend more slowly. Do I have the authority to tell
him no?

--

Wyatt Emmerich
President, Emmerich Newspapers
601-977-0470

PO Box 16709, Jackson MS 39236
Shipping: 246 Briarwood Drive, Suite 101, Jackson MS 39206

Sure, you are PIC, magic word is "'unable" as "Unable 2,000 now, due to
safety of flight, have traffic in sight, will maintain visual"

But the controller is required to provide separation for participating
traffic, so you may well be told to turn left heading 260, vectors for
sequencing, expect 20 minute delay for traffic.



"Wyatt Emmerich" wrote in message
...
| I'm flying into my home base KHKS at night in a single engine airplane. At
| no point have I been outside of glide range to an airport. I am VFR
shooting
| a practice full approach in Class C airspace going into a Class D airport.
| The controller wants me to descend to 2,000 feet five miles before the
FAF
| for traffic (which I can plainly see.) I want to stay at 4,000 and stay
| within glide range and descend more slowly. Do I have the authority to
tell
| him no?
|
| --
|
| Wyatt Emmerich
| President, Emmerich Newspapers
| 601-977-0470
|
| PO Box 16709, Jackson MS 39236
| Shipping: 246 Briarwood Drive, Suite 101, Jackson MS 39206
|
|

On Dec 17, 7:45 pm, "Wyatt Emmerich" wrote:
I'm flying into my home base KHKS at night in a single engine airplane. At
no point have I been outside of glide range to an airport. I am VFR shooting
a practice full approach in Class C airspace going into a Class D airport.
The controller wants me to descend to 2,000 feet

You don't say what approach you are doing, but if you are at 4000, and
5 miles from Brenz, then there is no way in haydes you are doing a
"practice approach" assuming you are doing an ILS into 16.

As Jim sez, you are the boss, and my experiences with KJAN is that
they will give you what you want, but their standard altitude is 2000
until established for all approaches from the north. From the south,
it's higher due to the antenna farm..

I shoot the ILS 16 all the time over there and depending on the
ceilings, will request 3000 to get IMC time when ceilings dictate.

I bet http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RHC-s9cl8cE will look might
familiar :-) as I worked the dickens out of Brenz LOL

http://www.youtube.com/BeechSundowner, I am sure will bring home
memories as I have KJAN, KMBO and KHKS approaches, both VFR and IFR
for all three airports as well as other airports in and out of
Mississippi.

Allen
(based in KMBO)

You're not seriously practicing an approach under these circumstances.



Wyatt Emmerich wrote:

I'm flying into my home base KHKS at night in a single engine airplane. At
no point have I been outside of glide range to an airport. I am VFR shooting
a practice full approach in Class C airspace going into a Class D airport.
The controller wants me to descend to 2,000 feet five miles before the FAF
for traffic (which I can plainly see.) I want to stay at 4,000 and stay
within glide range and descend more slowly. Do I have the authority to tell
him no?

Let me elaborate: First of all, I am shooting the GPS 16 into KHKS. This
involves going to Ocaro and then doing a semi-hold prior to the inbound leg.
The inbound leg is Ocaro, which is about ten miles from HKS, then Gugwa,
which is five miles (I guess co-located to Brenz.) Remember, I am single
engine so my whole goal is to stay within glide distance. Outbound from the
IAF of Ocaro in the pre-approach hold, I am 13 miles from the runway, so
4000 is where I want to be if my engine fails. I fly a Silver Eagle with a
turbine, so a rapid descent is no problem. At night, I like the structure of
an instrument approach, but I want the altitude for an emergency glide.
Maybe I shouldn't call it a "practice approach" but by doing so, the
controller knows where I am going and why. He asked me to descend to 2,000
while I am outbound from Ocaro, 13 miles from the runway, for traffic that
is not a threat an clearly visible to me. I say, "If you don't mind, I'd
like to stay higher until Gugwa." Controller says, "I do mind. Descend for
traffic." So if I say "Unable to descend yet. Have traffic visually. Will
maintain seperation." Can I continue on my merry way and ignore his command
that I descend below a safe gliding distance. Or is he going is he going to
report me to the FSDO?



"Newps" wrote in message
. ..
You're not seriously practicing an approach under these circumstances.



Wyatt Emmerich wrote:

I'm flying into my home base KHKS at night in a single engine airplane.
At no point have I been outside of glide range to an airport. I am VFR
shooting a practice full approach in Class C airspace going into a Class
D airport. The controller wants me to descend to 2,000 feet five miles
before the FAF for traffic (which I can plainly see.) I want to stay at
4,000 and stay within glide range and descend more slowly. Do I have the
authority to tell him no?

Correct. 2000 from the north, 3700 from the south to keep me from running
into an antenna. But the controllers don't seem to be nearly as concerned
about my safety if my engine quits. That's my point: I know where the
antennas are. And I have the traffic on TIS or visually. The only thing I'm
really worried about is gliding to the airport if my engine dies. But the
controllers seem oblivious to my real concern. And this guy was downright
determined to make me descend below my power-off glide altitude.


wrote in message
...
On Dec 17, 7:45 pm, "Wyatt Emmerich" wrote:
I'm flying into my home base KHKS at night in a single engine airplane.
At
no point have I been outside of glide range to an airport. I am VFR
shooting
a practice full approach in Class C airspace going into a Class D
airport.
The controller wants me to descend to 2,000 feet

You don't say what approach you are doing, but if you are at 4000, and
5 miles from Brenz, then there is no way in haydes you are doing a
"practice approach" assuming you are doing an ILS into 16.

As Jim sez, you are the boss, and my experiences with KJAN is that
they will give you what you want, but their standard altitude is 2000
until established for all approaches from the north. From the south,
it's higher due to the antenna farm..

I shoot the ILS 16 all the time over there and depending on the
ceilings, will request 3000 to get IMC time when ceilings dictate.

I bet http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RHC-s9cl8cE will look might
familiar :-) as I worked the dickens out of Brenz LOL

http://www.youtube.com/BeechSundowner, I am sure will bring home
memories as I have KJAN, KMBO and KHKS approaches, both VFR and IFR
for all three airports as well as other airports in and out of
Mississippi.

Allen
(based in KMBO)

wrote:

Correct. 2000 from the north, 3700 from the south to keep me from running
into an antenna. But the controllers don't seem to be nearly as concerned
about my safety if my engine quits.


Controllers separate you from aircraft, terrain, obstructions and
airspace. Your engine quitting is not a concern to ATC. If it's that
critical for you IFR flight will be problematic at best in a single
engine airplane. A typical approach will have you at about 1800 AGL at
the marker/FAF. You're not coasting in from there.



That's my point: I know where the
antennas are.

Irrelevant.


And I have the traffic on TIS or visually.


TIS is irrelevant for separation. And you don't know that the other
aircraft was the sole reason.



The only thing I'm
really worried about is gliding to the airport if my engine dies. But the
controllers seem oblivious to my real concern. And this guy was downright
determined to make me descend below my power-off glide altitude.





You're IFR so certain rules and procedures will apply. Can't abide?
Then you'll have to go VFR.

"Wyatt Emmerich" wrote in message
...

I'm flying into my home base KHKS at night in a single engine airplane. At
no point have I been outside of glide range to an airport. I am VFR
shooting a practice full approach in Class C airspace going into a Class D
airport. The controller wants me to descend to 2,000 feet five miles
before the FAF for traffic (which I can plainly see.) I want to stay at
4,000 and stay within glide range and descend more slowly. Do I have the
authority to tell him no?


You can tell him you have the traffic in sight, then he can assign visual
separation and there's no reason for him to push you down.

"Jim Macklin" wrote in message
...

Sure, you are PIC, magic word is "'unable" as "Unable 2,000 now, due to
safety of flight, have traffic in sight, will maintain visual"

But the controller is required to provide separation for participating
traffic, so you may well be told to turn left heading 260, vectors for
sequencing, expect 20 minute delay for traffic.


In Class C airspace all traffic is participating traffic.

wrote in message
...

You don't say what approach you are doing, but if you are at 4000, and
5 miles from Brenz, then there is no way in haydes you are doing a
"practice approach" assuming you are doing an ILS into 16.


Five miles from BRENZ would put him in Class E airspace, he said he was in
Class C airspace.