Planning a flight

I have the chance to fly from Madison, Wi (MSN) to Providence, Ri (PVD) in
July and was wondering about the most favoured route. I will be flying IFR

The most direct seems to be straight across Lake Michigan, north of Detroit
through Lower Ontario in Canada, Buffalo, Albany and then down to PVD. The
aircraft would be a P28-181.

My main questions a

1) Do many of you guys fly across Lake M? This would only be 90nm coast to
coast and can be no worse than crossing the English Channel from Southampton
to Jersey in a Pa17

2) Overflying Canada is no problem I take it other than an ATC spell with
Toronto Center?

3) Fuel stops at RNP and Hamilton (H30).

The early stop at RNP is to fuel up before going into Canadian airspace and
to get over the excitement of the water crossing. No doubt wanting to
dispose of some more water.

Or would people advise taking the long route south through Indiana and Ohio?

Thoughts appreciated

Chris

Chris,
Last summer, with much preparation and some trepidation, we flew
across Lake Michigan on our way from New York to northerm Minnesota.
We both wore life jackets with our 7mil wetsuits tuck between the seats
for easy retrieval! Departing from Muskegon airport (right next to the
lake), we circled to climb up to 8500' before crossing the lake. The
ATC certainly kept an eye on us, they gave us a call halfway asking
whether we had the shoreline in sight. It took something like 30
minutes to cross the lake in our C177B. On the way back, with
ceilings below 3000', we opted for the long way around the lake through
Chicago area and got sent over a portion of the lake to stay out of
heavies' paths.
Hai Longworth

wrote in message
oups.com...
Chris,
Last summer, with much preparation and some trepidation, we flew
across Lake Michigan on our way from New York to northerm Minnesota.
We both wore life jackets with our 7mil wetsuits tuck between the seats
for easy retrieval! Departing from Muskegon airport (right next to the
lake), we circled to climb up to 8500' before crossing the lake. The
ATC certainly kept an eye on us, they gave us a call halfway asking
whether we had the shoreline in sight. It took something like 30
minutes to cross the lake in our C177B. On the way back, with
ceilings below 3000', we opted for the long way around the lake through
Chicago area and got sent over a portion of the lake to stay out of
heavies' paths.
Hai Longworth

I had thought about the life jacket but not the immersion suit. Mind you I
would not fancy trying to struggle into a wetsuit either when the plane is
on the water or it is coming down. Crossing the English Channel we wear the
survival suit along with the life jacket when crossing the widest bit or fly
high enough crossing the narrowest bit knowing you can make it to either
shore.

Chris

If it were me, I'd fly east to the lake and then fly VFR along the
shoreline of Lake Michigan below Chicago's class B airspace. You'd get
a great view of Chicago skyline and could stay within gliding distance
of shore, I believe (never actually have done it, but I'd like to).

Crossing Lake Michigan in a single engine landplane, generally if you
have to ask, don't do it. If everything goes ok, all you will be is
nervous. If you engine quits, you will be in the lake, though I suppose
in July you have a chance, there will be all those boats. Lots of
people have done it though. I crossed it once in my landplane but it
was up by Beaver Island, not so far. I went VFR and got flight
following.. Flight went ok. It was April. I didn't have to ask, though.
It was only slightly nerve wracking. Not as bad on the nerves as
getting ice but worse than moderate turbulence.

On Mon, 21 Feb 2005 21:53:25 -0000, "Chris"
wrote:

I have the chance to fly from Madison, Wi (MSN) to Providence, Ri (PVD) in
July and was wondering about the most favoured route. I will be flying IFR

Sounds like a fun trip.

1) Do many of you guys fly across Lake M? This would only be 90nm coast to
coast and can be no worse than crossing the English Channel from Southampton
to Jersey in a Pa17

I live in Chicago and never fly across the lake in a single. If
something goes wrong, options are too limited for my liking. Even if
the ditching goes well, hypothermia is a major concern (yes, even in
summer). In the winter, you will perish unless you are wearing a
survival suit.

Fortunately for us near Chicago - you really don't save that much time
crossing the lake. From Madison, the picture is a little worse, but in
proportion to the trip size, not bad... I ran the numbers for your
trip, assuming a 120kt cruise and no-winds.

Across Lake Michigan & Erie (Direct) 799nm, 6:36
Around the lake(s) (JOTv, CGTv, DJBv). 867nm, 7:13

So no-winds, it is about 40 minutes faster to cut the lakes.

2) Overflying Canada is no problem I take it other than an ATC spell with
Toronto Center?

You need to be on a flightplan to cross the border. The IFR
flightplan will cover that.

3) Fuel stops at RNP and Hamilton (H30).

On the way out, you will probably only need 1 fuel stop. Fly up high
and enjoy the ride. Even going around the lakes, it is feasible for
this to be a 6:00 flight with a good tailwind. Of course on the way
home, you will need 2 fuel stops.

I would use airnav.com to plan the flight for the cheapest fuel.

-Nathan

On 21 Feb 2005 16:49:18 -0800, "Doug"
wrote:

If it were me, I'd fly east to the lake and then fly VFR along the
shoreline of Lake Michigan below Chicago's class B airspace. You'd get
a great view of Chicago skyline and could stay within gliding distance
of shore, I believe (never actually have done it, but I'd like to).

Yes, you can stay within gliding distance. ORD B is 3000ft MSL
(roughly 1/2 mile AGL) for most of the lakeshore, so you can certainly
glide a few miles.

Crossing Lake Michigan in a single engine landplane, generally if you
have to ask, don't do it. If everything goes ok, all you will be is
nervous. If you engine quits, you will be in the lake, though I suppose
in July you have a chance, there will be all those boats.

I have crossed in a twin (summer) and thought the boat traffic was
sparse, especially in the middle, which is where you would need it.

-Nathan

No you don't. I fly from Columbus OH to Marysville MI, crossing Lake
Erie, Ontario and Lake St Clair, VFR without talking to anyone.

Nathan Young wrote:
You need to be on a flightplan to cross the border. The IFR
flightplan will cover that.

OK - I'll bite. How do you get around this?

§ 91.707 Flights between Mexico or Canada and the United States.
Unless otherwise authorized by ATC, no person may operate a civil
aircraft between Mexico or Canada and the United States without filing
an IFR or VFR flight plan, as appropriate.

Further, I believe Canada's version of the FAA (NavCanada?) requires
VFR flightplans for VFR flights not in the locale of the originating
airport.


On Tue, 22 Feb 2005 03:13:15 GMT, Eric Rood wrote:

No you don't. I fly from Columbus OH to Marysville MI, crossing Lake
Erie, Ontario and Lake St Clair, VFR without talking to anyone.

Nathan Young wrote:
You need to be on a flightplan to cross the border. The IFR
flightplan will cover that.

Chris,
I have been across Lake Michigan several times in two different
airplanes. One was a PA28-180. It is not a problem if you fly 8500 to
10500. There is a narrow window where you cannot reach land if the
engine quit. The good news is it is going to take you nearly 20 minutes
until you are wet. You need to pay attention to the winds. The turn
around point is not necessarily in the middle. Lake reporting service is
helpful as well. they keep close tabs on you if you are not going IFR. i
have also flown the length of Lake Huron in a Maule. Take care of the
engine and it will take care of you.
Michelle

Chris wrote:

I have the chance to fly from Madison, Wi (MSN) to Providence, Ri (PVD) in
July and was wondering about the most favoured route. I will be flying IFR

The most direct seems to be straight across Lake Michigan, north of Detroit
through Lower Ontario in Canada, Buffalo, Albany and then down to PVD. The
aircraft would be a P28-181.

My main questions a

1) Do many of you guys fly across Lake M? This would only be 90nm coast to
coast and can be no worse than crossing the English Channel from Southampton
to Jersey in a Pa17

2) Overflying Canada is no problem I take it other than an ATC spell with
Toronto Center?

3) Fuel stops at RNP and Hamilton (H30).

The early stop at RNP is to fuel up before going into Canadian airspace and
to get over the excitement of the water crossing. No doubt wanting to
dispose of some more water.

Or would people advise taking the long route south through Indiana and Ohio?

Thoughts appreciated

Chris

I am not landing in Canada. Additionally, I am not using Canadian ATC
nor NavCanada, so I don't incur the quarterly fee.

Nathan Young wrote:
OK - I'll bite. How do you get around this?
§ 91.707 Flights between Mexico or Canada and the United States.
Unless otherwise authorized by ATC, no person may operate a civil
aircraft between Mexico or Canada and the United States without filing
an IFR or VFR flight plan, as appropriate.
Further, I believe Canada's version of the FAA (NavCanada?) requires
VFR flightplans for VFR flights not in the locale of the originating
airport.

On Tue, 22 Feb 2005 03:13:15 GMT, Eric Rood wrote:
No you don't. I fly from Columbus OH to Marysville MI, crossing Lake
Erie, Ontario and Lake St Clair, VFR without talking to anyone.

Nathan Young wrote:
You need to be on a flightplan to cross the border. The IFR
flightplan will cover that.