Planning HPN to SAF

I'm planning a trip for mid-May from WHite Plains, NY (KHPN) to Santa
Fe, NM (KSF). I'm wondering if anyone here has made a similar flight
and has any advice for me.

I will be single-pilot IFR, will be flying a Beech Debonair and am
planning to file for a TAS of 165kts at 10,000'. I've broken the route
up into three legs of approximately 3.5 to 4 hours each.

Leg 1: HPN to Findlay, OH (KFDY) via SAX V188 FQM V226 CIP V30 DJB V14
FDY

Leg 2: FDY to Olathe, KS (KOJC) via FDY V38 MAPPS V233 CAP V50 UIN V116
MCM V424 ANX V10 OJC

Leg 3: OJC to Santa Fe via OJC V10 HUT V234 DHT V190 LVS V60 TAFOY SAF

I could fly lower for the first two legs, but the MEA after DHT on leg
3 requires 10,000'. I would like not to have to carry oxygen if I can
avoid it. Assuming decent weather is it ridiculous to think that this
trip can be made in one long day? I'm not at all adverse to stopping
for an overnight at OJC, but would like to try and do it in one day if
possible.

I'd appreciate any feedback on this. Do any of you who fly regularly
along this route see any "gotcha's" with this plan?

Thanks in advance...

Tom Fleischman wrote:
Leg 3: OJC to Santa Fe via OJC V10 HUT V234 DHT V190 LVS V60 TAFOY SAF

I could fly lower for the first two legs, but the MEA after DHT on leg
3 requires 10,000'. I would like not to have to carry oxygen if I can
avoid it. Assuming decent weather is it ridiculous to think that this
trip can be made in one long day? I'm not at all adverse to stopping
for an overnight at OJC, but would like to try and do it in one day if
possible.

If the weather is good, cancel IFR at Dalhart. Altho the MEAs list
are higher from LVS-TAFOY-SAF, you can do that entire leg at 8500 at
1000 AGL. Head SSW out of LVS to get around that little ridge, then
direct to TAFOY. The ILS will take you directly over the jail, so
don't mistake it for the airport.

Or you can stay on IFR at 10000 but the segment is only about 25-30
min in my cherokee 180.

Or go a bit further south out of LVS, then over TAFOY and never need
more than 8500.

And if you're going over HUT, why not stay over and visit the
aviation and space museum?

"Blanche" wrote in message
...
Tom Fleischman wrote:
Leg 3: OJC to Santa Fe via OJC V10 HUT V234 DHT V190 LVS V60 TAFOY SAF

I could fly lower for the first two legs, but the MEA after DHT on leg
3 requires 10,000'. I would like not to have to carry oxygen if I can
avoid it. Assuming decent weather is it ridiculous to think that this
trip can be made in one long day? I'm not at all adverse to stopping
for an overnight at OJC, but would like to try and do it in one day if
possible.

If the weather is good, cancel IFR at Dalhart. Altho the MEAs list
are higher from LVS-TAFOY-SAF, you can do that entire leg at 8500 at
1000 AGL. Head SSW out of LVS to get around that little ridge, then
direct to TAFOY. The ILS will take you directly over the jail, so
don't mistake it for the airport.

Or you can stay on IFR at 10000 but the segment is only about 25-30
min in my cherokee 180.

Or go a bit further south out of LVS, then over TAFOY and never need
more than 8500.


I used to live in Albuquerque and flew from there to Hays, KS and back a few
times. The Mt. Dora MOA is rarely active so if you have GPS (or clear VMC
and a sectional) you might save a few miles going through it, direct from
HUT to LVS. Just check with ATC along the way about the MOA status.
However, radar contact may be lost at the lower altitudes as you near New
Mexico's mountainous terrain so be sure you can stay high enough to be legal
if you want to stay IFR.

Also, if it's a windy day you can expect occasional moderate turbulence
rolling off the mountains once you enter New Mexico. Tighten up those seat
belts and shoulder harnesses and have a good flight!

At a groundspeed of 155 knots I get over 10 hours of flight time (1600
miles). You are going to typically have headwinds (but you never know,
I had tailwinds coming Maine to Colorado, THE WHOLE WAY), but I was
LUCKY and it was summer. Add in at least an hour for lunch and fuel
and THAT is one looong day. I wouldn't want to fly in IMC or at night
the last 200 miles of that trip. If it's IMC in the mountains of New
Mexico, it usually means ice, especially this time of year. Anyway, I
take it you aren't familiar with the terrain, so I don't think you want
to fly the last leg at night at all. It's great scenery, who wants to
fly after dark over such great scenery! I'd take it easy and do it in
two days and enjoy myself. No tellling ahead of time what the weather
will be, but as your trip approaches, start watching the frontal
systems and time your trip between fronts. It's the Southwest so it's
flyable more days than not, still it's iffy. Such a trip always depends
on the weather.

In article m, Tom Fleischman wrote:
I'm planning a trip for mid-May from WHite Plains, NY (KHPN) to Santa
Fe, NM (KSF). I'm wondering if anyone here has made a similar flight
and has any advice for me.

I did HPN-BFI (Seattle) last year. Single pilot, but with a
non-pilot passenger (my Highly Significant Other). No specifics
on your route, but perhaps a few insights anyway.

I will be single-pilot IFR, will be flying a Beech Debonair and am
planning to file for a TAS of 165kts at 10,000'. I've broken the route
up into three legs of approximately 3.5 to 4 hours each.

If you already know your route to that extent, you're already
overplanning things. The catchphase for my flight was, "Okay,
we need another plan". Fortunately, most of the time (but not
always), I was saying it on the ground. You need to check the
weather at each leg, and if the thunderstorms are to the North,
plan the route further South (and vice versa).

Make sure you have a full set of charts beyond what you think
you might need. We had one chart that covered the entire U.S.
which helped with our strategic planning every day.

Most of our trip there was IFR with a couple of VFR legs; the
return trip was mostly VFR with a couple of IFR legs.

Of the two inflight diversions, one was due to arriving at
the destination airport at the same time the thunderstorm
did. Rather than circle, we went to another nearby airport
that was clear. The other diversion was due to a failed
alternator (broken wire, fixed within the hour and we were
on our way).

4-hour legs will be taxing unless you have a cast-iron bladder.

Our first leg was 4 hours, HPN-AKR (Akron, OH), longer than
planned due to adverse winds. By the time we landed, we were
both feeling pretty beat up. Once I realized ground speed
wasn't as good as planned, I watched the revised ETA closely,
saw it was okay, and pressed on. In hindsight, if I had
diverted and took a break earlier, say around the 3-hour
mark, I probably would've been up for another leg and
perhaps would've been able to make better forward progress
that day.

We flew IFR that leg, but had to wait around a few hours before
leaving due to the fog that had HPN below minima. What we'd
intended for our lunch stop became the first overnight stop.

After that one, our legs were closer to 2.5 hours. There
were a couple of times I was glad to have the extra fuel
reserves. At one airport, there was a medical emergency
on a commuter plane. The approach controllers messed up what
had been a nice orderly sequence, and it took them about an
hour to sort things out.

I missed the approach into one airport on the way home because
about 10 things went wrong (most of which were compound interest
on my *mumble* mistakes) and they sent me to the back of the
line (which I richly deserved), which took an extra hour.

Flying into the Rockies (uhm, let me try to rephrase that)...
When we got to the Rockies, the plan was to go VFR and follow
the I-90. This allowed lower altitudes and provided
less-hostile terrain in the event of a forced landing.

Crossing the Cascades into Seattle, I had to go IFR. West
of the Cascades was VMC, but Seattle had its usual marine
layer. I took an airway that followed the I-90, decended
into the clouds around Snoqualmie Pass, and cancelled
once I got below the clouds.


I could fly lower for the first two legs, but the MEA after DHT on leg
3 requires 10,000'. I would like not to have to carry oxygen if I can
avoid it. Assuming decent weather is it ridiculous to think that this
trip can be made in one long day? I'm not at all adverse to stopping
for an overnight at OJC, but would like to try and do it in one day if
possible.

It sounds like a pretty long day, even if the weather is totally
cooperative. My trip averaged two legs totalling about 5 flight
hours per day. Even IFR capable, we spent quite a bit of time on
the ground waiting to see what the weather would do. Next time,
I'll try to average 3-leg days, which would mean less dawdling in
the morning and shorter lunch stops.


HTH,

Morris

In article , Journeyman
wrote:

In article m, Tom
Fleischman wrote:

snip

I will be single-pilot IFR, will be flying a Beech Debonair and am
planning to file for a TAS of 165kts at 10,000'. I've broken the route
up into three legs of approximately 3.5 to 4 hours each.

If you already know your route to that extent, you're already
overplanning things. The catchphase for my flight was, "Okay,
we need another plan". Fortunately, most of the time (but not
always), I was saying it on the ground. You need to check the
weather at each leg, and if the thunderstorms are to the North,
plan the route further South (and vice versa).

Make sure you have a full set of charts beyond what you think
you might need. We had one chart that covered the entire U.S.
which helped with our strategic planning every day.

Most of our trip there was IFR with a couple of VFR legs; the
return trip was mostly VFR with a couple of IFR legs.

Of the two inflight diversions, one was due to arriving at
the destination airport at the same time the thunderstorm
did. Rather than circle, we went to another nearby airport
that was clear. The other diversion was due to a failed
alternator (broken wire, fixed within the hour and we were
on our way).

4-hour legs will be taxing unless you have a cast-iron bladder.


snip

I could fly lower for the first two legs, but the MEA after DHT on leg
3 requires 10,000'. I would like not to have to carry oxygen if I can
avoid it. Assuming decent weather is it ridiculous to think that this
trip can be made in one long day? I'm not at all adverse to stopping
for an overnight at OJC, but would like to try and do it in one day if
possible.

It sounds like a pretty long day, even if the weather is totally
cooperative. My trip averaged two legs totalling about 5 flight
hours per day. Even IFR capable, we spent quite a bit of time on
the ground waiting to see what the weather would do. Next time,
I'll try to average 3-leg days, which would mean less dawdling in
the morning and shorter lunch stops.

I have already decided to break this trip into 2 days and plan shorter
legs on Day 1. Of course in planning any trip one has to understand
that it is only a plan and that things are undoubtedly going to change
enroute. But you have to start somewhere. The longest trip I've managed
before this was a 4:20 min non-stop trip to Milwaukee in my club's very
fast Bonanza, and you're right, a long leg like that is very taxing. So
I've got some different fuel stops in mind, going both a southerly
route and an northerly route, with no leg longer than 3 hours. This
should also allow me to arrive at the high terrain east of Santa Fe
fairly early in the day.

I don't consider this overplanning, I'll be flying out IFR and I've got
to file something, right? Besides, it's fun, it's interesting, and I'm
enjoying it. I've found airports with both cheap fuel and good food
reports that fit the bill and allow for diversion and flexibility.

I can't wait.

Journeyman wrote:
If you already know your route to that extent, you're already
overplanning things. The catchphase for my flight was, "Okay,
we need another plan".

But, much better to have a plan that you discover you need to discard than
to not have any plan at all.

"Tom Fleischman" wrote in message
news:130320051206522311% I don't consider this overplanning, I'll be flying
out IFR and I've got
to file something, right? Besides, it's fun, it's interesting, and I'm
enjoying it. I've found airports with both cheap fuel and good food
reports that fit the bill and allow for diversion and flexibility.

I can't wait.

The other I found was that the quality of the headset makes one hell of a
difference as far as fatigue is concerned. NR is great but not at the
expense of having your head in a vice for 4 hours at a time. Seriously the
noise can be tiring too.

In article m, Tom Fleischman wrote:

I have already decided to break this trip into 2 days and plan shorter
legs on Day 1. Of course in planning any trip one has to understand
that it is only a plan and that things are undoubtedly going to change
enroute. But you have to start somewhere. The longest trip I've managed
before this was a 4:20 min non-stop trip to Milwaukee in my club's very
fast Bonanza, and you're right, a long leg like that is very taxing. So
I've got some different fuel stops in mind, going both a southerly
route and an northerly route, with no leg longer than 3 hours. This
should also allow me to arrive at the high terrain east of Santa Fe
fairly early in the day.

I don't consider this overplanning, I'll be flying out IFR and I've got
to file something, right? Besides, it's fun, it's interesting, and I'm
enjoying it. I've found airports with both cheap fuel and good food
reports that fit the bill and allow for diversion and flexibility.

I can't wait.

It's an awesome experience, highly recommended. Don't forget to post
your trip report when you get back. :-)

Sounds like you have the right idea. My impression from your initial
post that your planning was much more narrowly focussed (i.e. this leg
at that altitude). Now that's overplanning.


Morris