Full deflection = missed approach ???

It is common wisdom, and often common sense, that if a full deflection of a
CDI (or GS) is experienced, a missed approach is to be flown. But a lot of
people seem to think that it is REQUIRED. I have had a CFII tell me it is
required. But I can not find anything in FAR or AIM that states such a
requirement.

Again, in a lot of cases I can understand why to do it. But I can also
imagine others where it might make just as much sense to recover the
approach and not go missed.

Can anyone point me at a rule that requires a missed?

"pgbnh" wrote in message
...

It is common wisdom, and often common sense, that if a full deflection of
a CDI (or GS) is experienced, a missed approach is to be flown. But a lot
of people seem to think that it is REQUIRED. I have had a CFII tell me it
is required. But I can not find anything in FAR or AIM that states such a
requirement.

Again, in a lot of cases I can understand why to do it. But I can also
imagine others where it might make just as much sense to recover the
approach and not go missed.

Can anyone point me at a rule that requires a missed?

If you agree it's the proper thing to do, does it matter if it's required or
not?

"pgbnh" wrote in message
...

I did not say that it is ALWAYS the right thing to do. Sometimes, yes.
Sometimes, no. If there is a requirement someplace, then that would seem
to trump my making the decison to recover the approach when I have decided
that that is a safe thing to do.

So yes, it DOES make a difference


When is it not the right thing to do?

I did not say that it is ALWAYS the right thing to do. Sometimes, yes.
Sometimes, no. If there is a requirement someplace, then that would seem to
trump my making the decison to recover the approach when I have decided that
that is a safe thing to do.

So yes, it DOES make a difference
"Steven P. McNicoll" wrote in message
ink.net...

"pgbnh" wrote in message
...

It is common wisdom, and often common sense, that if a full deflection of
a CDI (or GS) is experienced, a missed approach is to be flown. But a lot
of people seem to think that it is REQUIRED. I have had a CFII tell me it
is required. But I can not find anything in FAR or AIM that states such a
requirement.

Again, in a lot of cases I can understand why to do it. But I can also
imagine others where it might make just as much sense to recover the
approach and not go missed.

Can anyone point me at a rule that requires a missed?

If you agree it's the proper thing to do, does it matter if it's required
or not?

in an emergency, say low on fuel and not able to do a missed and another
approach.
Michelle

Steven P. McNicoll wrote:

"pgbnh" wrote in message
...


I did not say that it is ALWAYS the right thing to do. Sometimes, yes.
Sometimes, no. If there is a requirement someplace, then that would seem
to trump my making the decison to recover the approach when I have decided
that that is a safe thing to do.

So yes, it DOES make a difference




When is it not the right thing to do?

If you agree it's the proper thing to do, does it matter if it's required or
not?

He doesn't. He agrees it's =often= proper.

If you have full deflection, you don't know how far off course you are
(although you do know how far off course you aren't). You don't know
what the terrain clearance is, since you are no longer in the protected
area (although I believe "some" protection is provided for "some
distance" outside the zone). So, if you don't know where you are or
what's below you, then continuing the approach doesn't make sense, and
the "careless and reckless" clause could be applied.

However, in some circumstances, for example in broken clouds and with
some ground contact to give you terrain assurance, when you =just= went
full deflection so you do know where you are (it's just not where you
want to be), and a low fuel or other critical situation in busy
airspace, and you know why you went full deflection and can come right
back (you didn't just zone out), it =may= make more sense to recover the
approach.

I know of no specific rule for part 91 ops that requires a missed.

Jose
--
Money: what you need when you run out of brains.
for Email, make the obvious change in the address.

Think about it it just makes sense. Once you have full deflection you
can no longer tell where you are latterly on the approach. An unsafe
situation.
Michelle

pgbnh wrote:

It is common wisdom, and often common sense, that if a full deflection of a
CDI (or GS) is experienced, a missed approach is to be flown. But a lot of
people seem to think that it is REQUIRED. I have had a CFII tell me it is
required. But I can not find anything in FAR or AIM that states such a
requirement.

Again, in a lot of cases I can understand why to do it. But I can also
imagine others where it might make just as much sense to recover the
approach and not go missed.

Can anyone point me at a rule that requires a missed?

I can think of the following situations where I might encounter a full
deflection yet a recovery is the right thing to do:
1. Flying an ILS behind a heavy to a 9000 foot runway with an 800 reported
ceiling. I want to land long, stay well above GS and might accept a full
deflection high.

2. I have a full lateral deflection, but I just WATCHED it deflect full and
I therefore know where I am, my distance from where I want to be, and I know
that I can recover. (as opposed to I was distracted, lost my scan, look up
and see a full deflection but I have NO idea how long it has been deflected
full)

3. On a VOR approach, I just passed the VOR as FAF and the CDI swings to a
full deflection. I know I am on course because I was only one dot off a half
mile before the vor and I will likely be the same one dot off shortly.

"Michelle P" wrote in message
news
Think about it it just makes sense. Once you have full deflection you can
no longer tell where you are latterly on the approach. An unsafe
situation.
Michelle

pgbnh wrote:

It is common wisdom, and often common sense, that if a full deflection of
a CDI (or GS) is experienced, a missed approach is to be flown. But a lot
of people seem to think that it is REQUIRED. I have had a CFII tell me it
is required. But I can not find anything in FAR or AIM that states such a
requirement.

Again, in a lot of cases I can understand why to do it. But I can also
imagine others where it might make just as much sense to recover the
approach and not go missed.

Can anyone point me at a rule that requires a missed?

pgbnh wrote:

It is common wisdom, and often common sense, that if a full deflection of a
CDI (or GS) is experienced, a missed approach is to be flown. But a lot of
people seem to think that it is REQUIRED. I have had a CFII tell me it is
required. But I can not find anything in FAR or AIM that states such a
requirement.

Again, in a lot of cases I can understand why to do it. But I can also
imagine others where it might make just as much sense to recover the
approach and not go missed.

Can anyone point me at a rule that requires a missed?

The rule is implied. The procedure is an FAR. If the needles are fully
deflected you are no longer flying the courses or altitudes specified in the
procedure. Thus, if you don't miss you are continuing the procedure without
following the requirements set forth on the approach chart.

The feds won't bust you for violating Part 97, though, they'll bust you for
careless and reckless.

pgbnh wrote:

I can think of the following situations where I might encounter a full
deflection yet a recovery is the right thing to do:
1. Flying an ILS behind a heavy to a 9000 foot runway with an 800 reported
ceiling. I want to land long, stay well above GS and might accept a full
deflection high.


A full deflection above the G/S is not violating a minimum altitude.


2. I have a full lateral deflection, but I just WATCHED it deflect full and
I therefore know where I am, my distance from where I want to be, and I know
that I can recover. (as opposed to I was distracted, lost my scan, look up
and see a full deflection but I have NO idea how long it has been deflected
full)

3. On a VOR approach, I just passed the VOR as FAF and the CDI swings to a
full deflection. I know I am on course because I was only one dot off a half
mile before the vor and I will likely be the same one dot off shortly.

A full deflection over the station is a transitory condition, like the old cone
of silence on a range station. A full deflection other than over or near the
station is because of a serious tracking error.



"Michelle P" wrote in message
news
Think about it it just makes sense. Once you have full deflection you can
no longer tell where you are latterly on the approach. An unsafe
situation.
Michelle

pgbnh wrote:

It is common wisdom, and often common sense, that if a full deflection of
a CDI (or GS) is experienced, a missed approach is to be flown. But a lot
of people seem to think that it is REQUIRED. I have had a CFII tell me it
is required. But I can not find anything in FAR or AIM that states such a
requirement.

Again, in a lot of cases I can understand why to do it. But I can also
imagine others where it might make just as much sense to recover the
approach and not go missed.

Can anyone point me at a rule that requires a missed?