IFR student

I'm close to completing my PPL (9 days for my checkride) and planned
to go onto to get IFR training in a 6-7 months. The weather
in the San Francisco Bay area has been quite cloudy and rainy and
was thinking about starting my IFR training immediately in order
to take advantage of the IMC conditions. I know most people get
IFR rated without having ever flown in IMC. I want to do it
for real.

So a simple question......what items did you find helpful for
IFR training? This is in regards to books (my instructor recommended
Gleim, a book by Dugan (?), and the Jeppeson book), foggles (brands?),
timers, anything and everything. I'm definitely more into quality
than quantity. I'd rather spend an extra money and get best,
easiest and especially the safest.

thanks
Gerald

In article . net,
Gerald Sylvester wrote:

So a simple question......what items did you find helpful for
IFR training? This is in regards to books (my instructor recommended
Gleim, a book by Dugan (?), and the Jeppeson book), foggles (brands?),
timers, anything and everything. I'm definitely more into quality
than quantity. I'd rather spend an extra money and get best,
easiest and especially the safest.

Cockpit organization is something you have to develop for yourself.
Everyone does the same things, but in a little different way. The trick
is to avoid and eliminate clutter.
Here are some of the "tools" I have found useful...

- Lapboard. A place to hold current charts, notepad, possible approach
plates to be needed.

- Notepad. Purchase a bundle of the smaller 4x6 pads from an office
supply store. You will be doing alot of writing in a small space.
Attach to lapboard and/or kneeboard.

- Timer. A good digital stopwatch/timer with big numbers and
backlighting. Ability to set the mmss for an approach or hold; count
up/count down; time between waypoints, etc.

- Vision limiting device. Foggles, hood, visor? Try before buying. Find
what is comfortable for you. If you wear glasses, there are clip on
Foggles (this is what I use).

- Headset with boom microphone and PTT. If you don't already have one,
get one.

- Portable Intercom. If the airplanes you fly don't have one builtin,
get one. You want to be able to communicate with your instructor
clearly.

- Portable GPS. Unless your aircraft is equipped with an IFR certified
GPS, the portable is a real world situational awareness device.
Non-precision approaches do not provide the distance to the airport and
groundspeed. If you have a strong tailwind, you may overshoot the
airport before the time expires.

- Handheld Comm Radio. Backup in the event of aircraft electrical
failure and used to obtain ATIS and clearances prior to engine start.

- Jepps or Government Charts? Jepps are nice but expensive and you have
to keep up with the updates. Goverment charts are cheap, throwaways,
come bound or loose.

- Mechanical pencils. Today's disposable mechanical pencils are very
usefull. The lead breaks, click... click... you are ready to write. I
tie a 18-24 inch string to the pencil and the lapboard. If I drop it,
pull the string, it's back in you hand.

- Greasepencil. My favorite piece of pilot equipment. Heads-up in the
cockpit, write your clearance on the windows where you can see it. A
good cotton cloth (I use a bandanna) wipes it away. Purchase at a
hardware store, can also be used to mark on instrument glass. (You can
even draw on the new moving map displays!)

Yesterday was a great day for IFR flying in the Bay Area. The clouds were
plenty bouncy, which is very different from the rather placid marine layer clouds
that we pop in and out of during the summer. I was with an IFR student going
for a checkride in a week, and he was happy to see what it felt like.

Also the temps were warm enough (and have been for the last week),
that icing wasn't an issue, since the current system came from the south.
Often winter storms come from the north, the freezing level is down to about 4,000 feet,
and that precludes much training, since we usually need to get up to 5000 feet to
get to Stockton, and 6 or 7000 feet to get down to the Monterey area when
on an IFR flight plan. So some of those days you might think are great for training aren't really flyable.

If you do decide to get started immediately, you'll want to plan your training
(and the fun flying that you fit in between training sessions) so that you rack
up the 50 hours in cross-country time required before the instrument checkride
(unless you're learning out of a Part 141 school). It's certainly doable to get
all of that time while doing your IFR training, though depending upon your location,
you sometimes need to be flying beyond your IFR destination so you can land first
at some other airport to meet the 50 nm criteria for cross country.

Whatever you decide to do, have fun!
Max T, MCFI
www.sjflight.com

Gerald Sylvester wrote in message
ink.net...

I'm close to completing my PPL (9 days for my checkride) and planned
to go onto to get IFR training in a 6-7 months. The weather
in the San Francisco Bay area has been quite cloudy and rainy and
was thinking about starting my IFR training immediately in order
to take advantage of the IMC conditions. I know most people get
IFR rated without having ever flown in IMC. I want to do it
for real.

So a simple question......what items did you find helpful for
IFR training? This is in regards to books (my instructor recommended
Gleim, a book by Dugan (?), and the Jeppeson book), foggles (brands?),
timers, anything and everything. I'm definitely more into quality
than quantity. I'd rather spend an extra money and get best,
easiest and especially the safest.

thanks
Gerald

"Gerald Sylvester" wrote in message
ink.net...

I'm close to completing my PPL (9 days for my checkride) and planned
to go onto to get IFR training in a 6-7 months. The weather
in the San Francisco Bay area has been quite cloudy and rainy and
was thinking about starting my IFR training immediately in order
to take advantage of the IMC conditions. I know most people get
IFR rated without having ever flown in IMC. I want to do it
for real.

What airport do you fly out of? Just curious....

I'm a little over 40 hours now on my instrument training and have been
enjoying the recent opportunites for REAL IMC during my lessons. In fact I
have another lesson Thursday, which is shortly after all the wet stuff is
scheduled to come in again. The only drawback is that my home airport,
Reid-Hillview only has a GPS approach and none of the 172's I currently fly
have panel mount GPS's (supposed to be getting two,, unfortunately they
aren't being added to any of the planes that I fly), so we can only take
advantage of the IMC if it is VFR (i.e., so I get back) at my home airport
around the time we plan returning to RHV.

So a simple question......what items did you find helpful for
IFR training? This is in regards to books (my instructor recommended
Gleim, a book by Dugan (?), and the Jeppeson book), foggles (brands?),
timers, anything and everything. I'm definitely more into quality
than quantity. I'd rather spend an extra money and get best,
easiest and especially the safest.

I've tried a LOT of the various training materials. I REALLY like the King
Instrument DVDs (tried the Sporty's equivallent, but it just didn't 'click'
with me, so I sold it on eBay and used some of the money to buy the King
Instrument). I've used the ASA Instrument written testing software, but
have moved over to Gleim 'cause I just like it better (it's updatable
online, as well). I use a yoke clip with a homemade clipboard made of two
stiff pieces of cardboard taped/glued together (cut so they are kneeboard
size) and that is clipped into the yoke clip. Another thing I've found
useful are three small Bulldog clips - I clip them to different sides of my
approach plates (overlapping each other) so that I can alternately flip from
one approach plate to another with a minimum of fuss. On the horn of the
yoke clip I have the new ASA timer, the one that has a knob for quick set of
multiple approach times. I really like it and would recommend it, highly.

I really was impressed with the government Instrument Manual publication
that they have out this year,,, it is great (quite a departure from the
dubious quality of previous government printed manuals - these are of
commercial quality design). As a supplement (after you have finished the
other instrument manual I mentioned), the Machado instrument book is very
good and rich with great tips (that's where the bulldog clip idea came
from). I also have a kneeboard on my leg with a pen held in place with a
circular coiled spring, with a small yellow writing tablet to copy down
clearances, etc.

What I'm about to throw out here is purely anecdotal from my personal
experiences so weigh it as just someone's opinion,,, not necessarily hard
fact:
In many ways I'm very glad that after getting my ticket that I flew around
as a VFR pilot building up some fun cross-country time with friends and
family. I did this for a little over two and one-half years as a private
pilot. By the time I decided to 'dive-in' into the instrument rating I
already had LOTS of cross-country hours and (I think) even more importantly,
my flying practice made the conversion to the finer tolerances of instrument
flight, easier to attain. In fact, my CFII was most impressed (and so was
I) that I had some very precise plane control skills already when I began
the instrument rating.
Another thing to consider is that the instrument rating is a very
concentrated and different experience that the basic ticket. It is
certainly a challenge, but there aren't many opportunities to look out the
windscreen and enjoy the view. The study is more concentrated that the
basic PPL, but if you are motivated it is not TOO hard.

Please understand that I'm not trying to dissuade you,,, just trying to
present you with another possible approach you might consider.

Either way,, have a great time and study hard!
--
=-----
Good Flights!

Cecil
PP-ASEL

Check out my personal flying adventures complete with pictures and text at:
www.bayareapilot.com

"I fly because it releases my mind from the tyranny of petty things."
- Antoine de Saint-Exupery -

I would second the last statement here.

I flew almost 200 hours VFR after getting my PPL over a nearly 2 year
period before I started my IFR. In fact, the first IFR lesson started out
as a BFR!

But having that much VFR experience has been invaluable to me, both in my
ability to enjoy the hood flying experience (rather than getting frustrated
and bored quickly like a friend of mine did when he went straight into IFR
training) and focus on learning the IFR specifics, as opposed to first
having to learn how to control the plane. Sure I skip my altitude check
every so often like everyone else, but in reasonable wind conditions, it is
nearly intuitive for me to put the plane back on course and altitude. (Of
course, in 30kt choppy winds like I had today, I'm chasing like all the
other IFR students out there, I think.)

But when my instructor and I talk about wind corrections, or concepts
related to approaches, or hold entry methods, etc., we can pretty much talk
about the IFR issues, and don't have to talk about controlling the plane,
or how to talk to Approach, or any of that stuff. That stuff is already
good with me...

Of course, I'm just getting started with my IFR training. So after another
30 hours of this, I might get annoyed and frustrated too!

But at least I got to fly with my head out the window for a while first!


"Cecil E. Chapman" wrote in
. com:

"Gerald Sylvester" wrote in message
ink.net...

I'm close to completing my PPL (9 days for my checkride) and planned
to go onto to get IFR training in a 6-7 months. The weather
in the San Francisco Bay area has been quite cloudy and rainy and
was thinking about starting my IFR training immediately in order
to take advantage of the IMC conditions. I know most people get
IFR rated without having ever flown in IMC. I want to do it for real.

What airport do you fly out of? Just curious....

I'm a little over 40 hours now on my instrument training and have been
enjoying the recent opportunites for REAL IMC during my lessons. In
fact I have another lesson Thursday, which is shortly after all the wet
stuff is scheduled to come in again. The only drawback is that my home
airport, Reid-Hillview only has a GPS approach and none of the 172's I
currently fly have panel mount GPS's (supposed to be getting two,,
unfortunately they aren't being added to any of the planes that I fly),
so we can only take advantage of the IMC if it is VFR (i.e., so I get
back) at my home airport around the time we plan returning to RHV.

So a simple question......what items did you find helpful for
IFR training? This is in regards to books (my instructor recommended
Gleim, a book by Dugan (?), and the Jeppeson book), foggles (brands?),
timers, anything and everything. I'm definitely more into quality
than quantity. I'd rather spend an extra money and get best, easiest
and especially the safest.

I've tried a LOT of the various training materials. I REALLY like the
King Instrument DVDs (tried the Sporty's equivallent, but it just
didn't 'click' with me, so I sold it on eBay and used some of the money
to buy the King Instrument). I've used the ASA Instrument written
testing software, but have moved over to Gleim 'cause I just like it
better (it's updatable online, as well). I use a yoke clip with a
homemade clipboard made of two stiff pieces of cardboard taped/glued
together (cut so they are kneeboard size) and that is clipped into the
yoke clip. Another thing I've found useful are three small Bulldog
clips - I clip them to different sides of my approach plates
(overlapping each other) so that I can alternately flip from one
approach plate to another with a minimum of fuss. On the horn of the
yoke clip I have the new ASA timer, the one that has a knob for quick
set of multiple approach times. I really like it and would recommend
it, highly.

I really was impressed with the government Instrument Manual
publication
that they have out this year,,, it is great (quite a departure from the
dubious quality of previous government printed manuals - these are of
commercial quality design). As a supplement (after you have finished
the other instrument manual I mentioned), the Machado instrument book
is very good and rich with great tips (that's where the bulldog clip
idea came from). I also have a kneeboard on my leg with a pen held in
place with a circular coiled spring, with a small yellow writing tablet
to copy down clearances, etc.

What I'm about to throw out here is purely anecdotal from my personal
experiences so weigh it as just someone's opinion,,, not necessarily
hard fact:
In many ways I'm very glad that after getting my ticket that I flew
around as a VFR pilot building up some fun cross-country time with
friends and family. I did this for a little over two and one-half
years as a private pilot. By the time I decided to 'dive-in' into the
instrument rating I already had LOTS of cross-country hours and (I
think) even more importantly, my flying practice made the conversion to
the finer tolerances of instrument flight, easier to attain. In fact,
my CFII was most impressed (and so was I) that I had some very precise
plane control skills already when I began the instrument rating.
Another thing to consider is that the instrument rating is a very
concentrated and different experience that the basic ticket. It is
certainly a challenge, but there aren't many opportunities to look out
the windscreen and enjoy the view. The study is more concentrated that
the basic PPL, but if you are motivated it is not TOO hard.

Please understand that I'm not trying to dissuade you,,, just trying to
present you with another possible approach you might consider.

Either way,, have a great time and study hard!

the most helpful thing for me was a good lapboard.
one that was able to hold 2 pens, paper and approach charts. your going
to be doing alot of writing, so make sure your lapboard is good for you.

Gerald Sylvester wrote:

I'm close to completing my PPL (9 days for my checkride) and planned
to go onto to get IFR training in a 6-7 months. The weather
in the San Francisco Bay area has been quite cloudy and rainy and
was thinking about starting my IFR training immediately in order
to take advantage of the IMC conditions. I know most people get
IFR rated without having ever flown in IMC. I want to do it
for real.

So a simple question......what items did you find helpful for
IFR training? This is in regards to books (my instructor recommended
Gleim, a book by Dugan (?), and the Jeppeson book), foggles (brands?),
timers, anything and everything. I'm definitely more into quality
than quantity. I'd rather spend an extra money and get best,
easiest and especially the safest.

thanks
Gerald

Cecil
so do you find yourself staring at the instruments on your VFR flying...

after I was about 3/4 way done with my instrument training, when I started doing
it almost everyday so I could finish, I found myself staring at my instruments
on take off and all my turns were standard rate ... had to keep reminding myself
to look out the window.

"Cecil E. Chapman" wrote:

"Gerald Sylvester" wrote in message
ink.net...

I'm close to completing my PPL (9 days for my checkride) and planned
to go onto to get IFR training in a 6-7 months. The weather
in the San Francisco Bay area has been quite cloudy and rainy and
was thinking about starting my IFR training immediately in order
to take advantage of the IMC conditions. I know most people get
IFR rated without having ever flown in IMC. I want to do it
for real.

What airport do you fly out of? Just curious....

I'm a little over 40 hours now on my instrument training and have been
enjoying the recent opportunites for REAL IMC during my lessons. In fact I
have another lesson Thursday, which is shortly after all the wet stuff is
scheduled to come in again. The only drawback is that my home airport,
Reid-Hillview only has a GPS approach and none of the 172's I currently fly
have panel mount GPS's (supposed to be getting two,, unfortunately they
aren't being added to any of the planes that I fly), so we can only take
advantage of the IMC if it is VFR (i.e., so I get back) at my home airport
around the time we plan returning to RHV.

So a simple question......what items did you find helpful for
IFR training? This is in regards to books (my instructor recommended
Gleim, a book by Dugan (?), and the Jeppeson book), foggles (brands?),
timers, anything and everything. I'm definitely more into quality
than quantity. I'd rather spend an extra money and get best,
easiest and especially the safest.

I've tried a LOT of the various training materials. I REALLY like the King
Instrument DVDs (tried the Sporty's equivallent, but it just didn't 'click'
with me, so I sold it on eBay and used some of the money to buy the King
Instrument). I've used the ASA Instrument written testing software, but
have moved over to Gleim 'cause I just like it better (it's updatable
online, as well). I use a yoke clip with a homemade clipboard made of two
stiff pieces of cardboard taped/glued together (cut so they are kneeboard
size) and that is clipped into the yoke clip. Another thing I've found
useful are three small Bulldog clips - I clip them to different sides of my
approach plates (overlapping each other) so that I can alternately flip from
one approach plate to another with a minimum of fuss. On the horn of the
yoke clip I have the new ASA timer, the one that has a knob for quick set of
multiple approach times. I really like it and would recommend it, highly.

I really was impressed with the government Instrument Manual publication
that they have out this year,,, it is great (quite a departure from the
dubious quality of previous government printed manuals - these are of
commercial quality design). As a supplement (after you have finished the
other instrument manual I mentioned), the Machado instrument book is very
good and rich with great tips (that's where the bulldog clip idea came
from). I also have a kneeboard on my leg with a pen held in place with a
circular coiled spring, with a small yellow writing tablet to copy down
clearances, etc.

What I'm about to throw out here is purely anecdotal from my personal
experiences so weigh it as just someone's opinion,,, not necessarily hard
fact:
In many ways I'm very glad that after getting my ticket that I flew around
as a VFR pilot building up some fun cross-country time with friends and
family. I did this for a little over two and one-half years as a private
pilot. By the time I decided to 'dive-in' into the instrument rating I
already had LOTS of cross-country hours and (I think) even more importantly,
my flying practice made the conversion to the finer tolerances of instrument
flight, easier to attain. In fact, my CFII was most impressed (and so was
I) that I had some very precise plane control skills already when I began
the instrument rating.
Another thing to consider is that the instrument rating is a very
concentrated and different experience that the basic ticket. It is
certainly a challenge, but there aren't many opportunities to look out the
windscreen and enjoy the view. The study is more concentrated that the
basic PPL, but if you are motivated it is not TOO hard.

Please understand that I'm not trying to dissuade you,,, just trying to
present you with another possible approach you might consider.

Either way,, have a great time and study hard!
--
=-----
Good Flights!

Cecil
PP-ASEL

Check out my personal flying adventures complete with pictures and text at:
www.bayareapilot.com

"I fly because it releases my mind from the tyranny of petty things."
- Antoine de Saint-Exupery -

"Jeff" wrote in message
...
Cecil
so do you find yourself staring at the instruments on your VFR flying...


Funny you should say that,, I had a bit of a no-brainer on my last lesson.
We were converting to a circling approach and my instructor had to remind
me,,, "You can look out the window now, it's now a 'vfr' approach" :-) I
felt goofy,, of course I knew that,,,..... So, I definitely know what you
mean!

--
=-----
Good Flights!

Cecil
PP-ASEL

Check out my personal flying adventures complete with pictures and text at:
www.bayareapilot.com

"I fly because it releases my mind from the tyranny of petty things."
- Antoine de Saint-Exupery -

On Tue, 09 Dec 2003 17:11:11 GMT, "Cecil E. Chapman"
wrote:

"Jeff" wrote in message
...
Cecil
so do you find yourself staring at the instruments on your VFR flying...


Funny you should say that,, I had a bit of a no-brainer on my last lesson.
We were converting to a circling approach and my instructor had to remind
me,,, "You can look out the window now, it's now a 'vfr' approach" :-) I
felt goofy,, of course I knew that,,,..... So, I definitely know what you
mean!

The switch from the panel to looking outside can be one of the most
difficult phases of flight. You "glance" out, and check the
gauges...You need to "glance out" just prior to DH to prevent busting
altitude

If it's going to be a missed and when flying at MDA you have to keep
glancing out to know if the airport is going to be visible, but when
things are right down to minimums it all has to happen at the right
time. That is where two pilot IFR is so much easier than single
pilot. The PIC stays on the gauges while the second pilot calls
watches for land, and may call for speeds and altitudes. That lease
the PIC as just flying the gauges with the other set of eyes looking
outside.

Unfortunately most of my flying has been solo except when my wife and
I go sight seeing, or take a trip.


Roger Halstead (K8RI & ARRL life member)
(N833R, S# CD-2 Worlds oldest Debonair?)
www.rogerhalstead.com
Return address modified due to dumb virus checkers

Roger Halstead wrote

The switch from the panel to looking outside can be one of the
most difficult phases of flight.

Very true

You need to "glance out" just prior to DH to prevent busting
altitude

What constitutes "busting altitude" on an approach with a "DH"?

The PIC stays on the gauges while the second pilot calls watches
for land, and may call for speeds and altitudes. That lease the
PIC as just flying the gauges with the other set of eyes looking
outside.

This is not written in stone. There are many different " flying
and looking" schemes in use by various operators. "PIC" should not
be used when in fact, "pilot flying" is meant.

Bob Moore