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#1
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With help from the people on this newsgroup, I'm happy to announce that I
passed my IPC! One thing that came up on my flight was that I didn't announce that I was entering holding and my altitude. The 2006 AIM 5-3-3 a. 1. (f) requires reporting to ATC, whether in radar contact or not, "The time and altitude...upon reaching a holding fix..." However, the FAA's "Instrument Flying Handbook" FAA-H-8083-15, dated 2001, says on page10-8 that a report entering holding is not required if in radar contact. Obviously, they contradict each other. I told the instructor pilot that I had chosen to go with the "Instrument Flying Handbook" version and not make a report to ATC because it seemed to me that if I was in radar contact, the controller would see it happening. So, what do you think? Which FAA book is wrong? Why does the controller need reminding that I'm entering holding when I'm in radar contact? Thanks, Dennis |
#2
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Rules and procedures change, they are not static.
Your answer is in the dates you cited. "Dennis Johnson" wrote in message . .. | With help from the people on this newsgroup, I'm happy to announce that I | passed my IPC! | | One thing that came up on my flight was that I didn't announce that I was | entering holding and my altitude. | | The 2006 AIM 5-3-3 a. 1. (f) requires reporting to ATC, whether in radar | contact or not, "The time and altitude...upon reaching a holding fix..." | | However, the FAA's "Instrument Flying Handbook" FAA-H-8083-15, dated 2001, | says on page10-8 that a report entering holding is not required if in radar | contact. | | Obviously, they contradict each other. I told the instructor pilot that I | had chosen to go with the "Instrument Flying Handbook" version and not make | a report to ATC because it seemed to me that if I was in radar contact, the | controller would see it happening. | | So, what do you think? Which FAA book is wrong? Why does the controller | need reminding that I'm entering holding when I'm in radar contact? | | Thanks, | Dennis | | |
#3
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On 10/01/07 11:44, Dennis Johnson wrote:
With help from the people on this newsgroup, I'm happy to announce that I passed my IPC! One thing that came up on my flight was that I didn't announce that I was entering holding and my altitude. The 2006 AIM 5-3-3 a. 1. (f) requires reporting to ATC, whether in radar contact or not, "The time and altitude...upon reaching a holding fix..." However, the FAA's "Instrument Flying Handbook" FAA-H-8083-15, dated 2001, says on page10-8 that a report entering holding is not required if in radar contact. Hmmm, 2001 - that's pretty old. There's a 2007 version out there. In that section, here is what it said under the 'At all times' category: f) The time and altitude upon reaching a holding fix or point to which cleared g) When leaving any assigned holding fix or point NOTE - The reports in (f) and (g) may be omitted by pilots of aircraft involved in instrument training at military terminal area facilities when radar service is being provided. So maybe it's time to get the new book? Obviously, they contradict each other. I told the instructor pilot that I had chosen to go with the "Instrument Flying Handbook" version and not make a report to ATC because it seemed to me that if I was in radar contact, the controller would see it happening. So, what do you think? Which FAA book is wrong? Why does the controller need reminding that I'm entering holding when I'm in radar contact? Thanks, Dennis -- Mark Hansen, PP-ASEL, Instrument Airplane, USUA Ultralight Pilot Cal Aggie Flying Farmers Sacramento, CA |
#4
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I have noticed over the years that many pilots assume that the controller is
watching their data block like a hawk, ready to pick up any error, diversion, or navigational situation. Tain't so. Once the controller has transmitted the holding instructions and you have acknowledged them, he or she assumes that you are going to carry them out and switches to watching other traffic. Speak up. Bob Gardner "Dennis Johnson" wrote in message . .. With help from the people on this newsgroup, I'm happy to announce that I passed my IPC! One thing that came up on my flight was that I didn't announce that I was entering holding and my altitude. The 2006 AIM 5-3-3 a. 1. (f) requires reporting to ATC, whether in radar contact or not, "The time and altitude...upon reaching a holding fix..." However, the FAA's "Instrument Flying Handbook" FAA-H-8083-15, dated 2001, says on page10-8 that a report entering holding is not required if in radar contact. Obviously, they contradict each other. I told the instructor pilot that I had chosen to go with the "Instrument Flying Handbook" version and not make a report to ATC because it seemed to me that if I was in radar contact, the controller would see it happening. So, what do you think? Which FAA book is wrong? Why does the controller need reminding that I'm entering holding when I'm in radar contact? Thanks, Dennis |
#5
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![]() Dennis Johnson wrote: So, what do you think? Which FAA book is wrong? Why does the controller need reminding that I'm entering holding when I'm in radar contact? A radar controller never needs to know you have entered holding. A useless call. If he needs a report of any kind he will ask. |
#6
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In article ,
"Dennis Johnson" wrote: So, what do you think? Which FAA book is wrong? Why does the controller need reminding that I'm entering holding when I'm in radar contact? The controller told you to hold, and he's watching you hold on radar. He doesn't need you to report entering the hold. If you follow much of what the AIM tells you to do, you'll be assured of being up to the minute on the latest 1950's procedures. |
#7
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I would think that a pilot on a checkride or IPC would be well advised to
follow provisions of the AIM. Bob Gardner "Roy Smith" wrote in message ... In article , "Dennis Johnson" wrote: So, what do you think? Which FAA book is wrong? Why does the controller need reminding that I'm entering holding when I'm in radar contact? The controller told you to hold, and he's watching you hold on radar. He doesn't need you to report entering the hold. If you follow much of what the AIM tells you to do, you'll be assured of being up to the minute on the latest 1950's procedures. |
#8
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Roy Smith wrote:
In article , "Dennis Johnson" wrote: So, what do you think? Which FAA book is wrong? Why does the controller need reminding that I'm entering holding when I'm in radar contact? The controller told you to hold, and he's watching you hold on radar. He doesn't need you to report entering the hold. If you follow much of what the AIM tells you to do, you'll be assured of being up to the minute on the latest 1950's procedures. You indeed follow the AIM. Having said that, controllers don't usually watch holding patterns. |
#9
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The AIM states that when there is a variance between the AIM
and the FAR, follow the current FAR. "Bob Gardner" wrote in message . .. |I would think that a pilot on a checkride or IPC would be well advised to | follow provisions of the AIM. | | Bob Gardner | | "Roy Smith" wrote in message | ... | In article , | "Dennis Johnson" wrote: | | So, what do you think? Which FAA book is wrong? Why does the controller | need reminding that I'm entering holding when I'm in radar contact? | | The controller told you to hold, and he's watching you hold on radar. He | doesn't need you to report entering the hold. If you follow much of what | the AIM tells you to do, you'll be assured of being up to the minute on | the | latest 1950's procedures. | |
#10
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On 10/02/07 08:29, Jim Macklin wrote:
The AIM states that when there is a variance between the AIM and the FAR, follow the current FAR. Is there a variance in this case? "Bob Gardner" wrote in message . .. |I would think that a pilot on a checkride or IPC would be well advised to | follow provisions of the AIM. | | Bob Gardner | | "Roy Smith" wrote in message | ... | In article , | "Dennis Johnson" wrote: | | So, what do you think? Which FAA book is wrong? Why does the controller | need reminding that I'm entering holding when I'm in radar contact? | | The controller told you to hold, and he's watching you hold on radar. He | doesn't need you to report entering the hold. If you follow much of what | the AIM tells you to do, you'll be assured of being up to the minute on | the | latest 1950's procedures. | -- Mark Hansen, PP-ASEL, Instrument Airplane, USUA Ultralight Pilot Cal Aggie Flying Farmers Sacramento, CA |
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