Stalls??

Why is it so many pilots are afraid of stalls? I see it over an over
when doing flight reviews and checks. Why are pilots so afraid of
flying in the low end of the speed envelope? Isn't that where the
nasty things can happen? Isn't that where a pilot should be
comfortable and competent?
What do you think?
Its a loaded? question and comes from a 24,000+ hour pilot and active
instructor. I'd really like to see some active discussion on this
subject. I'm tired of seeing aircraft damaged by sloppy flying, and
even more tired of seeing people injured by same.
Got any comments?
Ol S&B

"Ol Shy & Bashful" wrote in message
...
Why is it so many pilots are afraid of stalls? I see it over an over
when doing flight reviews and checks. Why are pilots so afraid of
flying in the low end of the speed envelope? Isn't that where the
nasty things can happen? Isn't that where a pilot should be
comfortable and competent?
What do you think?
Its a loaded? question and comes from a 24,000+ hour pilot and active
instructor. I'd really like to see some active discussion on this
subject. I'm tired of seeing aircraft damaged by sloppy flying, and
even more tired of seeing people injured by same.
Got any comments?
Ol S&B


Well as a low time weekend warrior type I don't dislike doing stalls but I
treat it with a lot of respect. I don't go out by myself and work on stalls
unless I have a CFI with me. I take a CFI with me quite a bit because
sometimes I will go a couple months in between flights with my work schedule
so I feel a lot more comfortable with a seasoned pilot with me. Eventually
I'd like to own my own plane and fly more but work and house payments don't
make that possible right now. If I flew more I'm sure I would be more
comfortable with those maneuvers but comfort always come with experience.

On Feb 13, 12:53*pm, "Ol Shy & Bashful" wrote:
Why is it so many pilots are afraid of stalls? I see it over an over
when doing flight reviews and checks. Why are pilots so afraid of
flying in the low end of the speed envelope? Isn't that where the
nasty things can happen? Isn't that where a pilot should be
comfortable and competent?
What do you think?
Its a loaded? question and comes from a 24,000+ hour pilot and active
instructor. I'd really like to see some active discussion on this
subject. I'm tired of seeing aircraft damaged by sloppy flying, and
even more tired of seeing people injured by same.
Got any comments?
Ol S&B

As an instructor I approach the first stall with a student with some
caution just because I don't know the plane. I've had a few planes end
up with the blue side down (a Bonanza and a Mooney) in the stall.
These owners had not stalled their planes before. When i was a student
pilot in the Cessna 140 I also thought it odd that some people didn't
like stalls. That was because the C-140 doesn't really stall, it just
buffets along. However, you jump into something with a more
interesting stall characteristic and you can see why some students
don't like stalls.
I'm actually becoming a bit of an odd ball in the Mooney community
because I still do full stalls in the plane. Most of the other CFIs
only go to the first nose drop, not a full stall and when teaching at
the Mooney Pilot Prof. courses you are prohibited from doing full
stalls with students. There are a lot of 10,000+ hour Mooney
instructors that say you simply shouldn't be doing full stalls in
these types of planes.

-Robert, CFII

On Feb 13, 3:22*pm, "Robert M. Gary" wrote:
On Feb 13, 12:53*pm, "Ol Shy & Bashful" wrote:

Why is it so many pilots are afraid of stalls? I see it over an over
when doing flight reviews and checks. Why are pilots so afraid of
flying in the low end of the speed envelope? Isn't that where the
nasty things can happen? Isn't that where a pilot should be
comfortable and competent?
What do you think?
Its a loaded? question and comes from a 24,000+ hour pilot and active
instructor. I'd really like to see some active discussion on this
subject. I'm tired of seeing aircraft damaged by sloppy flying, and
even more tired of seeing people injured by same.
Got any comments?
Ol S&B

As an instructor I approach the first stall with a student with some
caution just because I don't know the plane. I've had a few planes end
up with the blue side down (a Bonanza and a Mooney) in the stall.
These owners had not stalled their planes before. When i was a student
pilot in the Cessna 140 I also thought it odd that some people didn't
like stalls. That was because the C-140 doesn't really stall, it just
buffets along. However, you jump into something with a more
interesting stall characteristic and you can see why some students
don't like stalls.
I'm actually becoming a bit of an odd ball in the Mooney community
because I still do full stalls in the plane. Most of the other CFIs
only go to the first nose drop, not a full stall and when teaching at
the Mooney Pilot Prof. courses you are prohibited from doing full
stalls with students. *There are a lot of 10,000+ hour Mooney
instructors that say you simply shouldn't be doing full stalls in
these types of planes.

-Robert, CFII

Robert
What is a full stall? Does it have anything to do with the pitch
attitude of the aircraft? The whole purpose of doing stall practice is
to teach a pilot how not to get into a stall that makes him NewsAt 9
and a smoking hole in the ground...??!!
What is the advantage of going into a "deep stall" that pitches the
nose down steeply and results in a severe loss of altitude? Isn't the
purpose of stall practice to simulate stalls in the departure or
approach phase? And how much altitude is there to play with? I don't
think it should be thought of as 2-3000 feet as done in practice.
Rather it should be thought of as 50 feet as in an approach stall, or
as 100 feet in a departure stall. Now we are getting realistic in the
dangers of stalls and how to make an effective recovery without
hitting the ground.
Your comment about not knowing the plane has me curious. In fact, most
of your post has me confused as regards stalls.
Cheers
Ol S&B

Ol Shy & Bashful wrote:
Why is it so many pilots are afraid of stalls? I see it over an over
when doing flight reviews and checks. Why are pilots so afraid of
flying in the low end of the speed envelope? Isn't that where the
nasty things can happen? Isn't that where a pilot should be
comfortable and competent?
What do you think?
Its a loaded? question and comes from a 24,000+ hour pilot and active
instructor. I'd really like to see some active discussion on this
subject. I'm tired of seeing aircraft damaged by sloppy flying, and
even more tired of seeing people injured by same.
Got any comments?
Ol S&B


The reason for the fear is probably because it was taught as the final
thing that can happen at low end of the envelope. This was not always
the case because people used to be trained that after the stall came the
spin and how to recover from that. Of course everyone knows that the
spin comes after the stall but it is all theory and faith. Sort of like
the afterlife.

We fear what we don't understand. Some pilots don't understand
the basic aerodynamics...

I highly recommend that pilots that have a fear of stalls
go spend an hour or two with a an instructor and refresh
your knowledge and skills. You will bolter your confidence
and increase your skills and confidence.

On Feb 13, 4:27*pm, kontiki wrote:
We fear what we don't understand. Some pilots don't understand
the basic aerodynamics...

I highly recommend that pilots that have a fear of stalls
go spend an hour or two with a an instructor and refresh
your knowledge and skills. You will bolter your confidence
and increase your skills and confidence.

Kontiki
Find an instructor who is comfortable with stalls and spins....there
is the trick! And its a major flaw in the modern training process. How
sad is that?
Best Regards
Rocky

I think a lot of it is external. As soon as the folks at the
office/neighbors/bowling buddies/other busybodies learn that someone is a
flight student they chime in with "Just wait until you get to stalls!!!"
although in most cases they have no direct experience with flight training
at all. This pre-loads the student with apprehension.

All students become familiar with the angle of attack vs coefficient of lift
curve that appears in almost every text (figure 4-2 in the Airplane Flying
Handbook). You don't have to be a math major to see that maximum lift is
developed just prior to the stall....is max lift a bad thing???

My own approach was to take it slow and easy, beginning with simply holding
the nose on the horizon with the power at idle until a buffet was felt or
the nose began to drop; in either case, I had the student simply lower the
nose until s/he sank into the seat as the wing bit into the air. Adding
power, stalling while banked, etc all came after the student was educated to
the fact that simply relaxing the back pressure was the key to success.

I have dropped long-time friends like the proverbial hot potato when they
refused to explore the low end of the envelope for fear of stalling....and
these were licensed pilots, not students. You can't teach someone whose mind
is made up.

Bob Gardner


"Ol Shy & Bashful" wrote in message
...
Why is it so many pilots are afraid of stalls? I see it over an over
when doing flight reviews and checks. Why are pilots so afraid of
flying in the low end of the speed envelope? Isn't that where the
nasty things can happen? Isn't that where a pilot should be
comfortable and competent?
What do you think?
Its a loaded? question and comes from a 24,000+ hour pilot and active
instructor. I'd really like to see some active discussion on this
subject. I'm tired of seeing aircraft damaged by sloppy flying, and
even more tired of seeing people injured by same.
Got any comments?
Ol S&B

Bob Gardner wrote:

I have dropped long-time friends like the proverbial hot potato when
they refused to explore the low end of the envelope for fear of
stalling....and these were licensed pilots, not students. You can't
teach someone whose mind is made up.


Is this really the case? I'm 45 and got my PPL in '79. Most of the other
pilots I fly with today are either a little older than I am or in most
cases WAY older than I am. I just don't have a lot of experience flying
with pilots that were trained after I was. An even though I was
trained in '79 the training I received would have been right at home in
the early to mid 60's.

My one recent experience was with a young CFI when I was getting a BFR
and this kid was scared of stalls. Hell, he damn near made me scared of
them.

On Wed, 13 Feb 2008 13:50:09 -0800 (PST), "Ol Shy & Bashful"
... The whole purpose of doing stall practice is
to teach a pilot how not to get into a stall that makes him NewsAt 9
and a smoking hole in the ground...??!!
What is the advantage of going into a "deep stall" that pitches the
nose down steeply and results in a severe loss of altitude? Isn't the
purpose of stall practice to simulate stalls in the departure or
approach phase?...

You teach full stalls because although you should never get into one
accidentally, if it DOES happen you don't want it to be a totally
unfamiliar situation.

-Dana
--
--
If replying by email, please make the obvious changes.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Have you any idea how successful censorship is on TV? Don't know the answer? Hm. Successful. Isn't it?