Approach Question

Vor-Dme,

First off, please tell me if this is the right forum for newer-minted IR
pilots to discuss approach questions?

Absolutely. Welcome!


If so, have a look at this one :
http://204.108.4.16/d-tpp/0808/00382G22.PDF
GPS22, KSCH. I believe there is an error in the hold in lieu of PT, which
cannot be both "1-min" AND "4NM, but perhaps there is a good reason why
it is charted this way.

Weird, that "4 nm".

My real question though concerns the IAF waypoints. Why are OTOLE and
GALWA charted as fixes or reporting points, and not as GPS waypoints?

Hmm. My guess would be that they are regular intersections also defined by
non-GPS navaids. One would need an enroute chart to see that.

If
entering using OTOLE as IAF, is one required to fly the hold in lieu of?

I would say yes, since it doesn't say "NoPT" for OTOLE.

--
Thomas Borchert (EDDH)

VOR-DME wrote:
Greetings,
First off, please tell me if this is the right forum for newer-minted IR
pilots to discuss approach questions?

If so, have a look at this one :
http://204.108.4.16/d-tpp/0808/00382G22.PDF
GPS22, KSCH. I believe there is an error in the hold in lieu of PT, which
cannot be both "1-min" AND "4NM, but perhaps there is a good reason why
it is charted this way.

My real question though concerns the IAF waypoints. Why are OTOLE and
GALWA charted as fixes or reporting points, and not as GPS waypoints? If
entering using OTOLE as IAF, is one required to fly the hold in lieu of?

Why are OTOLE and
GALWA charted as fixes or reporting points

They are both intersections, i.e. fixes.

VOR-DME wrote:
Greetings,
First off, please tell me if this is the right forum for newer-minted IR
pilots to discuss approach questions?

If so, have a look at this one :
http://204.108.4.16/d-tpp/0808/00382G22.PDF
GPS22, KSCH. I believe there is an error in the hold in lieu of PT, which
cannot be both "1-min" AND "4NM, but perhaps there is a good reason why
it is charted this way.

My real question though concerns the IAF waypoints. Why are OTOLE and
GALWA charted as fixes or reporting points, and not as GPS waypoints? If
entering using OTOLE as IAF, is one required to fly the hold in lieu of?

Why are OTOLE and
GALWA charted as fixes or reporting points

They are both intersections, i.e. fixes.

You don't hold at OTOLE if being vectored, or if cleared for straight in
approach.

Vor-Dme,

PT or NoPT?


Well, where on the chart does it say "NoPT" for that case?

--
Thomas Borchert (EDDH)

On Aug 24, 5:36 pm, VOR-DME wrote:
In article , says...



Why are OTOLE and
GALWA charted as fixes or reporting points

They are both intersections, i.e. fixes.

Yes, they are, and they both show on the en-route chart.
Dumb of me not to have seen that.



You don't hold at OTOLE if being vectored, or if cleared for straight in
approach.

As with any approach, if being vectored, it's NoPT.
But what if "Cleared for the GPS22, cross OTOLE at or above 2400. . ."
PT or NoPT?

ITOLE IAF would require you to fly the PT. I don't see a no-PT for
that segment anywhere on the chart.

"Thomas Borchert" wrote in message
...
Vor-Dme,

First off, please tell me if this is the right forum for newer-minted IR
pilots to discuss approach questions?

Absolutely. Welcome!


If so, have a look at this one :
http://204.108.4.16/d-tpp/0808/00382G22.PDF
GPS22, KSCH. I believe there is an error in the hold in lieu of PT, which
cannot be both "1-min" AND "4NM, but perhaps there is a good reason why
it is charted this way.

Weird, that "4 nm".

The only thing I can make out of it is perhaps it's saying by 4nm of OTOLE
you should start your turn even if it's less than a minute.

Greetings,
First off, please tell me if this is the right forum for newer-minted IR
pilots to discuss approach questions?

If so, have a look at this one :
http://204.108.4.16/d-tpp/0808/00382G22.PDF
GPS22, KSCH. I believe there is an error in the hold in lieu of PT, which
cannot be both "1-min" AND "4NM, but perhaps there is a good reason why
it is charted this way.

My real question though concerns the IAF waypoints. Why are OTOLE and
GALWA charted as fixes or reporting points, and not as GPS waypoints? If
entering using OTOLE as IAF, is one required to fly the hold in lieu of?

In article , says...


Why are OTOLE and
GALWA charted as fixes or reporting points

They are both intersections, i.e. fixes.


Yes, they are, and they both show on the en-route chart.
Dumb of me not to have seen that.



You don't hold at OTOLE if being vectored, or if cleared for straight in
approach.


As with any approach, if being vectored, it's NoPT.
But what if "Cleared for the GPS22, cross OTOLE at or above 2400. . ."
PT or NoPT?

VOR-DME wrote:
Greetings,
First off, please tell me if this is the right forum for newer-minted IR
pilots to discuss approach questions?

If so, have a look at this one :
http://204.108.4.16/d-tpp/0808/00382G22.PDF
GPS22, KSCH. I believe there is an error in the hold in lieu of PT, which
cannot be both "1-min" AND "4NM, but perhaps there is a good reason why
it is charted this way.

My real question though concerns the IAF waypoints. Why are OTOLE and
GALWA charted as fixes or reporting points, and not as GPS waypoints? If
entering using OTOLE as IAF, is one required to fly the hold in lieu of?


The 1 minute is a NACO charting error. The Jeppesen chart doesn't show
that.

The Jeppesen chart shows OTOLE as a flyby waypoint and GALWA as a
flyover waypoint. Thus, more NACO charting issues.

The course-reversal (hold-in-lieu "HIL") is mandatory unless you arrive
via an NoPT route. This particular hold violates critera because HILs
haven't been permitted at GPS FAFs for perhaps 7 years now. They can
cause box sequencing problems.

This approach should have been changed during an FAA biannual review but
they are way behind their policy requirements.

And perhaps they were drinking "decent" wines while preparing the chart,
rather than worrying about "descent" angles.

David


Sam Spade wrote:
VOR-DME wrote:
Greetings,
First off, please tell me if this is the right forum for newer-minted
IR pilots to discuss approach questions?
If so, have a look at this one :
http://204.108.4.16/d-tpp/0808/00382G22.PDF
GPS22, KSCH. I believe there is an error in the hold in lieu of PT,
which cannot be both "1-min" AND "4NM, but perhaps there is a good
reason why it is charted this way.
My real question though concerns the IAF waypoints. Why are OTOLE and
GALWA charted as fixes or reporting points, and not as GPS waypoints?
If entering using OTOLE as IAF, is one required to fly the hold in
lieu of?

The 1 minute is a NACO charting error. The Jeppesen chart doesn't show
that.

The Jeppesen chart shows OTOLE as a flyby waypoint and GALWA as a
flyover waypoint. Thus, more NACO charting issues.

The course-reversal (hold-in-lieu "HIL") is mandatory unless you arrive
via an NoPT route. This particular hold violates critera because HILs
haven't been permitted at GPS FAFs for perhaps 7 years now. They can
cause box sequencing problems.

This approach should have been changed during an FAA biannual review but
they are way behind their policy requirements.