SSA 2018 Rules Finish Penalty

Folks,
Please share your opinions with the rules committee before January 10. Here is my feedback:

Hank,
Happy New Year.

The 2018 rules changes look good with the exception of the finish penalty which is only a minor improvement over the previous -200ft land-out scenario from a competition fairness perspective.

With the proposed rule the following penalties apply to the maximum 600 speed points:
100ft low - 25 points
200ft low - 50 points
300ft low - 225 points
400ft low - 400 points
401ft low - 600 points (on a 1000 point day)

Any big non-linearity in the scoring acts as a big deterrent, for those impacted, to return to future contests. The FAI system of a linear penalty to the ground is far more favorable and in my case a major reason to favor a transition from the SSA to the FAI scoring approach sooner than later. A 400 point low finish penalty will often control the results of the contest for a pilot when, in climb, it's often only 2 minutes of additional circling - this doesn't feel balanced.

I hope you and find a way to adopt a more balanced and ideally linear finish penalty in 2018.

Thanks again for all your efforts over the years.

Cheers,
Bob Fletcher 90

On Sunday, December 31, 2017 at 1:22:19 PM UTC-5, wrote:
Folks,
Please share your opinions with the rules committee before January 10. Here is my feedback:

Hank,
Happy New Year.

The 2018 rules changes look good with the exception of the finish penalty which is only a minor improvement over the previous -200ft land-out scenario from a competition fairness perspective.

With the proposed rule the following penalties apply to the maximum 600 speed points:
100ft low - 25 points
200ft low - 50 points
300ft low - 225 points
400ft low - 400 points
401ft low - 600 points (on a 1000 point day)

Any big non-linearity in the scoring acts as a big deterrent, for those impacted, to return to future contests. The FAI system of a linear penalty to the ground is far more favorable and in my case a major reason to favor a transition from the SSA to the FAI scoring approach sooner than later. A 400 point low finish penalty will often control the results of the contest for a pilot when, in climb, it's often only 2 minutes of additional circling - this doesn't feel balanced.

I hope you and find a way to adopt a more balanced and ideally linear finish penalty in 2018.

Thanks again for all your efforts over the years.

Cheers,
Bob Fletcher 90

Yes, and to make sure there is philosophical consistency between the circle and line finishes please implement a graduated penalty for the line finish where you doen't lose all your speed points for landing 1 mi short of the line.

Sarcasm intended.

Yes and remove that dreadful nonlinearity when the glider hits the dirt. Very unfair. And contrast depend on it!
John cochrane.

On Sunday, December 31, 2017 at 1:22:19 PM UTC-5, wrote:
Folks,
Please share your opinions with the rules committee before January 10. Here is my feedback:

Hank,
Happy New Year.

The 2018 rules changes look good with the exception of the finish penalty which is only a minor improvement over the previous -200ft land-out scenario from a competition fairness perspective.

With the proposed rule the following penalties apply to the maximum 600 speed points:
100ft low - 25 points
200ft low - 50 points
300ft low - 225 points
400ft low - 400 points
401ft low - 600 points (on a 1000 point day)

Any big non-linearity in the scoring acts as a big deterrent, for those impacted, to return to future contests. The FAI system of a linear penalty to the ground is far more favorable and in my case a major reason to favor a transition from the SSA to the FAI scoring approach sooner than later. A 400 point low finish penalty will often control the results of the contest for a pilot when, in climb, it's often only 2 minutes of additional circling - this doesn't feel balanced.

I hope you and find a way to adopt a more balanced and ideally linear finish penalty in 2018.

Thanks again for all your efforts over the years.

Cheers,
Bob Fletcher 90

Here is my observation. Based on what I remember from the poll, majority of pilots voted for adopting FAI rules, yet the rules committee decided to study the issue instead of adopting the rules. Why not adopt the FAI rules for one of the contests this coming year. I am puzzled by this development. Why do we need to have a study if pilots already said they wanted the FAI rules?

On Sunday, December 31, 2017 at 1:52:20 PM UTC-7, Andrzej Kobus wrote:

Here is my observation. Based on what I remember from the poll, majority of pilots voted for adopting FAI rules, yet the rules committee decided to study the issue instead of adopting the rules. Why not adopt the FAI rules for one of the contests this coming year. I am puzzled by this development. Why do we need to have a study if pilots already said they wanted the FAI rules?


Direct paste and copy.... it's up on the SSA site also.


10/19/2017 2017 SSA Pilot Opinion Poll Results

Do you favor a wholesale move to FAI rules?
Yes 29%
No 67%

5.1c Comments on a wholesale move to FAI rules: 42%

5.2 Do you favor a gradual adoption of FAI contest rules?
Yes 37%
No 59%

5.3 Do you favor retaining US contest rules as separate from FAI rules.
Yes 50%
No 43%


Best. Tom #711.

On Sunday, December 31, 2017 at 4:21:38 PM UTC-5, Tom Kelley #711 wrote:
On Sunday, December 31, 2017 at 1:52:20 PM UTC-7, Andrzej Kobus wrote:

Here is my observation. Based on what I remember from the poll, majority of pilots voted for adopting FAI rules, yet the rules committee decided to study the issue instead of adopting the rules. Why not adopt the FAI rules for one of the contests this coming year. I am puzzled by this development. Why do we need to have a study if pilots already said they wanted the FAI rules?


Direct paste and copy.... it's up on the SSA site also.


10/19/2017 2017 SSA Pilot Opinion Poll Results

Do you favor a wholesale move to FAI rules?
Yes 29%
No 67%

5.1c Comments on a wholesale move to FAI rules: 42%

5.2 Do you favor a gradual adoption of FAI contest rules?
Yes 37%
No 59%

5.3 Do you favor retaining US contest rules as separate from FAI rules.
Yes 50%
No 43%


Best. Tom #711.

How do these numbers look for National contests? The vote of pilots at one of the National contests last year showed majority wanted to adopt to FAI rules, wasn't that the case?

On Sunday, December 31, 2017 at 4:31:36 PM UTC-5, Andrzej Kobus wrote:
On Sunday, December 31, 2017 at 4:21:38 PM UTC-5, Tom Kelley #711 wrote:
On Sunday, December 31, 2017 at 1:52:20 PM UTC-7, Andrzej Kobus wrote:

Here is my observation. Based on what I remember from the poll, majority of pilots voted for adopting FAI rules, yet the rules committee decided to study the issue instead of adopting the rules. Why not adopt the FAI rules for one of the contests this coming year. I am puzzled by this development. Why do we need to have a study if pilots already said they wanted the FAI rules?


Direct paste and copy.... it's up on the SSA site also.


10/19/2017 2017 SSA Pilot Opinion Poll Results

Do you favor a wholesale move to FAI rules?
Yes 29%
No 67%

5.1c Comments on a wholesale move to FAI rules: 42%

5.2 Do you favor a gradual adoption of FAI contest rules?
Yes 37%
No 59%

5.3 Do you favor retaining US contest rules as separate from FAI rules.
Yes 50%
No 43%


Best. Tom #711.

How do these numbers look for National contests? The vote of pilots at one of the National contests last year showed majority wanted to adopt to FAI rules, wasn't that the case?

Because I analyzed the data (along with 9B) I can say with confidence that the RC can tell you:
- How many pilots that flew at a FAI class nationals responded to the poll
- How many of the respondents answered "yes" to one or both of the FAI questions.

Note there is no option to select if you flew an FAI WGC or SGP in the poll year. I did not get to fly a nationals in 2017 and the regionals I attended was rained out.

Instead I flew the Orlando SGP, 13.5m WGC and crewed for Junior WGC. However the analysis of poll results would indicate that my vote is from someone who flew no contests this year.

On Sunday, December 31, 2017 at 4:21:38 PM UTC-5, Tom Kelley #711 wrote:
On Sunday, December 31, 2017 at 1:52:20 PM UTC-7, Andrzej Kobus wrote:

Here is my observation. Based on what I remember from the poll, majority of pilots voted for adopting FAI rules, yet the rules committee decided to study the issue instead of adopting the rules. Why not adopt the FAI rules for one of the contests this coming year. I am puzzled by this development. Why do we need to have a study if pilots already said they wanted the FAI rules?


Direct paste and copy.... it's up on the SSA site also.


10/19/2017 2017 SSA Pilot Opinion Poll Results

Do you favor a wholesale move to FAI rules?
Yes 29%
No 67%

5.1c Comments on a wholesale move to FAI rules: 42%

5.2 Do you favor a gradual adoption of FAI contest rules?
Yes 37%
No 59%

5.3 Do you favor retaining US contest rules as separate from FAI rules.
Yes 50%
No 43%


Best. Tom #711.

My interpretation of those numbers is that 2/3 of pilots want to (immediately or gradually) move to FAI rules (29% plus 37%)

Half want to have US rules be a separate entity (but not necessarily different) from FAI rules.

The RC has much finer grain analysis available.

On Sunday, December 31, 2017 at 2:37:53 PM UTC-7, John Godfrey (QT) wrote:
On Sunday, December 31, 2017 at 4:21:38 PM UTC-5, Tom Kelley #711 wrote:
On Sunday, December 31, 2017 at 1:52:20 PM UTC-7, Andrzej Kobus wrote:

Here is my observation. Based on what I remember from the poll, majority of pilots voted for adopting FAI rules, yet the rules committee decided to study the issue instead of adopting the rules. Why not adopt the FAI rules for one of the contests this coming year. I am puzzled by this development. Why do we need to have a study if pilots already said they wanted the FAI rules?


Direct paste and copy.... it's up on the SSA site also.


10/19/2017 2017 SSA Pilot Opinion Poll Results

Do you favor a wholesale move to FAI rules?
Yes 29%
No 67%

5.1c Comments on a wholesale move to FAI rules: 42%

5.2 Do you favor a gradual adoption of FAI contest rules?
Yes 37%
No 59%

5.3 Do you favor retaining US contest rules as separate from FAI rules.
Yes 50%
No 43%


Best. Tom #711.

My interpretation of those numbers is that 2/3 of pilots want to (immediately or gradually) move to FAI rules (29% plus 37%)

Half want to have US rules be a separate entity (but not necessarily different) from FAI rules.

The RC has much finer grain analysis available.

QT,

If you do this 29% and 37% higher tech math "yes vote" which equals 66%,
then should you not add the other "no vote" parts of 67% and 59% which equal 126%?, which still gives us a greater "NO" vote?

Only 42% of those who cast the "whole sale" move responded on 5.2C.

Heck, I voted to make the AT TP smaller, as is used in the FAI rules, get rid of the cylinder and use a line with a MSH to start and a line to finish.

Of course, the CD should be able to make changes for what's "best" for that contest site.

Happy Snowflakes,

Best. Tom #711.