Rope Breaks (Grilling sacred cows)

Does anybody have a first hand account of a rope break in which a canopy was factually damaged because the pilot did not make an immediate turn to the left or right?

Please note:This is not my theory. I am only relating what is being taught at a particular club (not the club where I fly now).

Originally Posted by

Does anybody have a first hand account of a rope break in which a canopy was factually damaged because the pilot did not make an immediate turn to the left or right?

Please note:This is not my theory. I am only relating what is being taught at a particular club (not the club where I fly now).

No to a damaged canopy but I have personally seen 3 gliders with the rope fouling the wing and in one of those cases it had done a wrap around the tailplane resticting the elevator

:-)

On Tuesday, September 29, 2020 at 4:51:15 PM UTC+13, wrote:
Does anybody have a first hand account of a rope break in which a canopy was factually damaged because the pilot did not make an immediate turn to the left or right?

Please note:This is not my theory. I am only relating what is being taught at a particular club (not the club where I fly now).

I witnessed a rope break that damaged the canopy of the glider. It was on the ground, the tow pilot mistook some-one on the side of the runway waving to a friend as the all-out and took of while the rope was slack. As it came tight it broke at the towplane end and sprang back hitting the glider.

Visible scratches that would have needed buffing out. The leading edges of the wings had worse damage. The had two pot poly paint finish and it had deep scratches in a couple of places.

--
Phil Plane

On Monday, September 28, 2020 at 11:51:15 PM UTC-4, wrote:
Does anybody have a first hand account of a rope break in which a canopy was factually damaged because the pilot did not make an immediate turn to the left or right?

Please note:This is not my theory. I am only relating what is being taught at a particular club (not the club where I fly now).

I watched the glider-side link blast through the rear windshield of a Ford Crown Victoria that was towing an ASW-20 to the line. The stretchy tow rope was under a lot of tension when it let go. Of course, they were using a piece of chain link instead of the approved Tost ring, and it slid out of the nose hook "jaws".

I know, not what you are asking for/why you are asking.

When I was early on in my instructing career, I let a student flying a hand-controlled Grob 103 get one cycle too far into lateral PIOs before taking over. Just as I grabbed the stick there was a god-awful twang and the rope with ring was headed back at us. Because we were offset to the side and climbing slightly, the ring came back and passed JUST under the wing. If we'd been directly behind the towplane and a couple feet lower when it let go, would it have hit the fuselage/canopy? Dunno, but it would have been close. BTW, this was a pretty unique incident, as the load from the glider actually broke the Schweizer mounting bolt off the L-19 (yeah, I was young and stupid) which in turn led to the whole rope releasing (rather than breaking the rope). The tow pilot asked me to meet him out behind the main hangar when we got back down, and suffice to say he gave me quite the well-deserved dressing down.

Erik Mann (P3)

On Monday, September 28, 2020 at 11:51:15 PM UTC-4, wrote:
Does anybody have a first hand account of a rope break in which a canopy was factually damaged because the pilot did not make an immediate turn to the left or right?

Please note:This is not my theory. I am only relating what is being taught at a particular club (not the club where I fly now).

It is not at all clear what you are asking.
More clarification would be helpful.
UH

On Monday, September 28, 2020 at 8:51:15 PM UTC-7, wrote:
Does anybody have a first hand account of a rope break in which a canopy was factually damaged because the pilot did not make an immediate turn to the left or right?

Please note:This is not my theory. I am only relating what is being taught at a particular club (not the club where I fly now).
Before I turned right or left I would put the nose down!

Thank you for the replies and for expanding a bit on the topic. My intent was to be inclusive of both actual and simulated rope breaks in a flight regime where a turn is at least possible whether or not it is accomplished.

When I started digging into this topic I came across a handout from Cindy Brickner published on the SSF website titled "Takeoff Emergencies". Her second bullet point says pretty much what I've seen on simulated breaks.

The dictum related at the club in question was an immediate turn, no matter what. Maybe if I wait long enough I can find out how well that works out of the only place they could possibly land is straight ahead.

On Wednesday, September 30, 2020 at 10:43:26 PM UTC-4, wrote:
Thank you for the replies and for expanding a bit on the topic. My intent was to be inclusive of both actual and simulated rope breaks in a flight regime where a turn is at least possible whether or not it is accomplished.

When I started digging into this topic I came across a handout from Cindy Brickner published on the SSF website titled "Takeoff Emergencies". Her second bullet point says pretty much what I've seen on simulated breaks.

The dictum related at the club in question was an immediate turn, no matter what. Maybe if I wait long enough I can find out how well that works out of the only place they could possibly land is straight ahead.

About ropes... one of the smarter things my club has done in the last decade was put rock climbers in charge of ropes. Those guys know rope. We put brand new ropes in service at the start of every season, no exceptions. These are long enough that if an end becomes frayed it can be repaired mid season. A rope that survives a season in "apparently" good condition might end up stored in the back of the tug for aero retrieve duty or in some club member's trailer for other than club use. They never go back to the line.

We have not had any rope failures since these procedures were adopted.

In any actual or simulated emergency, my main priority as an instructor is that the PIC achieves a safe resolution with a minimum of drama. Worrying about getting hit by the rope wasn't even on my radar.

T8

On Thursday, 1 October 2020 06:20:18 UTC-6, Tango Eight wrote:
On Wednesday, September 30, 2020 at 10:43:26 PM UTC-4, wrote:
Thank you for the replies and for expanding a bit on the topic. My intent was to be inclusive of both actual and simulated rope breaks in a flight regime where a turn is at least possible whether or not it is accomplished..

When I started digging into this topic I came across a handout from Cindy Brickner published on the SSF website titled "Takeoff Emergencies". Her second bullet point says pretty much what I've seen on simulated breaks.

The dictum related at the club in question was an immediate turn, no matter what. Maybe if I wait long enough I can find out how well that works out of the only place they could possibly land is straight ahead.

About ropes... one of the smarter things my club has done in the last decade was put rock climbers in charge of ropes. Those guys know rope. We put brand new ropes in service at the start of every season, no exceptions. These are long enough that if an end becomes frayed it can be repaired mid season. A rope that survives a season in "apparently" good condition might end up stored in the back of the tug for aero retrieve duty or in some club member's trailer for other than club use. They never go back to the line..

We have not had any rope failures since these procedures were adopted.

In any actual or simulated emergency, my main priority as an instructor is that the PIC achieves a safe resolution with a minimum of drama. Worrying about getting hit by the rope wasn't even on my radar.

T8

T8, what material are you using for the ropes? POlyPro, cotton, spectra, other?

Thanks in advance

On Thursday, October 1, 2020 at 10:14:18 AM UTC-4, Ron Gleason wrote:
On Thursday, 1 October 2020 06:20:18 UTC-6, Tango Eight wrote:
On Wednesday, September 30, 2020 at 10:43:26 PM UTC-4, wrote:
Thank you for the replies and for expanding a bit on the topic. My intent was to be inclusive of both actual and simulated rope breaks in a flight regime where a turn is at least possible whether or not it is accomplished.

When I started digging into this topic I came across a handout from Cindy Brickner published on the SSF website titled "Takeoff Emergencies". Her second bullet point says pretty much what I've seen on simulated breaks.

The dictum related at the club in question was an immediate turn, no matter what. Maybe if I wait long enough I can find out how well that works out of the only place they could possibly land is straight ahead.

About ropes... one of the smarter things my club has done in the last decade was put rock climbers in charge of ropes. Those guys know rope. We put brand new ropes in service at the start of every season, no exceptions. These are long enough that if an end becomes frayed it can be repaired mid season. A rope that survives a season in "apparently" good condition might end up stored in the back of the tug for aero retrieve duty or in some club member's trailer for other than club use. They never go back to the line.

We have not had any rope failures since these procedures were adopted.

In any actual or simulated emergency, my main priority as an instructor is that the PIC achieves a safe resolution with a minimum of drama. Worrying about getting hit by the rope wasn't even on my radar.

T8
T8, what material are you using for the ropes? POlyPro, cotton, spectra, other?

Thanks in advance

Hollow braid polypropylene, iirc it's 5/16", pretty much the universal USA tow rope. The real art is in how they do the ring ends and the Tost ring adapters (and, of course, being hard core about the "retirement plan". I'll take some pics if interested.

T8