Great Lakes lake effect snow

Ok, it's coming up to that season, and was vividly demonstrated when I got
hit by hail driving through Watertown last night. I drive a lot between
Rochester NY and Ottawa Ontario, and Rochester NY and Whitby Ontario, and
frequently those drives are in good VFR conditions except for that band of
lake effect snow coming off of Lake Ontario at Watertown, and the one
coming off of Lake Erie at Buffalo.

This will be my first year with an instrument ticket, and I'm wondering if
I can fly these trips.
Questions:

1. How high up do those bands go? Can I go over them without oxygen?

2. If I can't go over them, do they produce airframe ice?


--
Paul Tomblin http://xcski.com/blogs/pt/
There are mushrooms that can survive weeks, months without air or food.
They just dry out and when water comes back, they wake up again. And call
the helldesk about their password expiring. -- after Jens Benecke and Tanuki

The lake effect weather produces some of the worst icing in the country. Even if
you can go over it, consider what your options are should you need to land now.

Paul Tomblin wrote:

Ok, it's coming up to that season, and was vividly demonstrated when I got
hit by hail driving through Watertown last night. I drive a lot between
Rochester NY and Ottawa Ontario, and Rochester NY and Whitby Ontario, and
frequently those drives are in good VFR conditions except for that band of
lake effect snow coming off of Lake Ontario at Watertown, and the one
coming off of Lake Erie at Buffalo.

This will be my first year with an instrument ticket, and I'm wondering if
I can fly these trips.
Questions:

1. How high up do those bands go? Can I go over them without oxygen?

2. If I can't go over them, do they produce airframe ice?

--
Paul Tomblin http://xcski.com/blogs/pt/
There are mushrooms that can survive weeks, months without air or food.
They just dry out and when water comes back, they wake up again. And call
the helldesk about their password expiring. -- after Jens Benecke and Tanuki

--
--Ray Andraka, P.E.
President, the Andraka Consulting Group, Inc.
401/884-7930 Fax 401/884-7950
email
http://www.andraka.com

"They that give up essential liberty to obtain a little
temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety."
-Benjamin Franklin, 1759

Ray Andraka ) wrote:

The lake effect weather produces some of the worst icing in the country.
Even if you can go over it, consider what your options are should you need
to land now.

Ray, is this true when these lake effect clouds are actually producing
snow?

I received my instrument ticket out of Syracuse, NY (just south of the OP's
lake effect band area in question) last winter. My instructor told me,
which was also confirmed by a meteorologist at an AOPA safety seminar, that
clouds producing large amounts of snow have very little water in them for
icing.

Additionally, I purposely flew a few hours of IMC with my instructor last
year in heavy lake effect snow bands (albeit never higher than 4,000 ft -
temps around 10-20 degrees F) and, during those flights, we did not
experience any icing.

--
Peter












----== Posted via Newsfeed.Com - Unlimited-Uncensored-Secure Usenet News==----
http://www.newsfeed.com The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World! 100,000 Newsgroups
---= 19 East/West-Coast Specialized Servers - Total Privacy via Encryption =---

This is true if the snow being produced is the flake type which results from
the direct crystalization of water vapor. The round "pellet" type snow
results from the freezing of liquid cloud droplets. Clouds that are snowing
a lot of pellet type snow have a lot of ice in them.

Mike
MU-2


"Peter R." wrote in message
...
Ray Andraka ) wrote:

The lake effect weather produces some of the worst icing in the country.
Even if you can go over it, consider what your options are should you
need
to land now.

Ray, is this true when these lake effect clouds are actually producing
snow?

I received my instrument ticket out of Syracuse, NY (just south of the
OP's
lake effect band area in question) last winter. My instructor told me,
which was also confirmed by a meteorologist at an AOPA safety seminar,
that
clouds producing large amounts of snow have very little water in them for
icing.

Additionally, I purposely flew a few hours of IMC with my instructor last
year in heavy lake effect snow bands (albeit never higher than 4,000 ft -
temps around 10-20 degrees F) and, during those flights, we did not
experience any icing.

--
Peter












----== Posted via Newsfeed.Com - Unlimited-Uncensored-Secure Usenet
News==----
http://www.newsfeed.com The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World! 100,000
Newsgroups
---= 19 East/West-Coast Specialized Servers - Total Privacy via Encryption
=---

"Mike Rapoport" wrote in message
.net...
This is true if the snow being produced is the flake type which results
from
the direct crystalization of water vapor. The round "pellet" type snow
results from the freezing of liquid cloud droplets. Clouds that are
snowing
a lot of pellet type snow have a lot of ice in them.

The smaller droplets being the more dangerous.

"Tarver Engineering" wrote in message
...

"Mike Rapoport" wrote in message
.net...
This is true if the snow being produced is the flake type which results
from
the direct crystalization of water vapor. The round "pellet" type snow
results from the freezing of liquid cloud droplets. Clouds that are
snowing
a lot of pellet type snow have a lot of ice in them.

The smaller droplets being the more dangerous.

Rime ice? Why? That part breaks more easily from surfaces?

(Paul Tomblin) writes:

This will be my first year with an instrument ticket, and I'm wondering if
I can fly these trips.
Questions:

1. How high up do those bands go? Can I go over them without oxygen?

2. If I can't go over them, do they produce airframe ice?

I'm interested in the same questions, but further to #1, I was
wondering if anyone can post a complete-idiot's guide to using
portable oxygen in an airplane: everyone who writes about using
oxygen, either online or in aviation books and magazines, seems to
assume that the whole process is simple and obvious.

I know that people who fly in the mountains learn this stuff from day
one, but as a flatland pilot, I've never even talked with a pilot who
uses portable oxygen, much less used it myself (I've never flown over
9,000 ft MSL). I'm not even sure how to get started. I've heard of
canulas, and I know that some people use welder's oxygen, but that's
pretty-much it.


All the best,


David

"David Megginson" wrote:

I'm interested in the same questions, but further to #1, I was
wondering if anyone can post a complete-idiot's guide to using
portable oxygen in an airplane: everyone who writes about using
oxygen, either online or in aviation books and magazines, seems to
assume that the whole process is simple and obvious.

It mostly is trivially simple. If you've never put on a cannula before it
might take you a couple tries to get it on right. The trick is to get it
around your neck then back over your ears and have it facing the right
direction under your nose. That and getting it to fit with the bows of your
sunglasses, your hat, and your headset. It can be quite a production.

Which leads to tip #2. If you think you're going to want O2, put your
cannula on during your preflight preparations. It's just easier to do it on
the ground. This also solves the problem my wife had the first time, which
is that you'll never figure out how to put on the cannula once you're
hypoxic.

Turn on the gas at the tank. My cannula also has a needle valve to meter
the precise amount of oxygen for the altitude. It's got a little ball that
floats along a scale which is calibrated in thousands of feet. If I'm
flying at 13000, I adjust the needle valve so the ball floats between the 12
and the 14.

Cannulas are not effective for delivery above 18,000. I've flown a couple
times at 17,500, and I had to open up the needle valve wide open in order to
stay alert. It was damn cold up there too. Note: never open a soda at that
altitude, or you'll be wearing most of it.


I know that people who fly in the mountains learn this stuff from day
one, but as a flatland pilot, I've never even talked with a pilot who
uses portable oxygen, much less used it myself (I've never flown over
9,000 ft MSL). I'm not even sure how to get started. I've heard of
canulas, and I know that some people use welder's oxygen, but that's
pretty-much it.

For the same reason that helium gives you the voice of a cartoon squirrel,
oxygen gives you a nice deep airline captain's voice on the radio. A nice
deep nasally congested airline captain, anyway.

Oxygen is basically free. Whatever you pay for a refill is a service
charge, so it varies radically depending on how badly people want to fill
your tank for you. Every once in a while I get a free refill, but when I
pay it's usually in the ballpark of $25. I only fill up once or twice a
year.

I usually use O2 for flights at 9500 and up, especially if I'm going to be
up there for a couple of hours. Recently I had a three-hour flight at
11,000 and I did not use O2, and I could feel myself starting to get punchy.
I use it at night when 5000 or above.

You can get a really nice portable O2 system for significantly less than the
cost of a handheld GPS. If you fly an airplane that can get you above
10,000 easily, it really makes sense to have one. Out here on the west
coast, MEAs go up to 10-12K just to fly back and forth between the largest
cities (Portland-San Francisco, San Francisco-Los Angeles). I spend a lot
of time up there.

Craig Prouse writes:

You can get a really nice portable O2 system for significantly less
than the cost of a handheld GPS. If you fly an airplane that can
get you above 10,000 easily, it really makes sense to have one. Out
here on the west coast, MEAs go up to 10-12K just to fly back and
forth between the largest cities (Portland-San Francisco, San
Francisco-Los Angeles). I spend a lot of time up there.

Thanks for all the info. Any recommendations on manufacturers? How
long does a tank last when you have four people breathing from it
instead of just the pilot?


All the best,


David

"David Megginson" wrote:

Thanks for all the info. Any recommendations on manufacturers? How
long does a tank last when you have four people breathing from it
instead of just the pilot?

Mine is Nelson (aka Precise Flight). I didn't choose it, but I'm very happy
with it. The previous owner of my plane threw it in as part of the deal.

When you've got four people in the airplane, it's less likely that you'll be
able to drag your gross weight up to where your passengers need O2. My
regulator has a manifold for four cannulas, but I've never used more than
two simultaneously.

Here is a link to some mfg data. My experience is reasonably consistent
with their claims.

http://www.preciseflight.com/durationstable.html

My tank is the 22 cu ft model. Installation is on the back of the copilot's
seat. A harness attaches to the seat back, and the tank straps to the
harness. In a C182, there's plenty of room for the rear seat passenger's
knees once the copilot seat is brought forward to its normal position. If
you fly something with less rear seat leg room, it might get crowded.