Kerry is a pilot?

"Jay Honeck" wrote in message
news:QEQRb.44543$U%5.237134@attbi_s03...

Not saying I disagree with you regarding Kerry's patriotism, but the
thought
comes to mind that perhaps we might have actually WON that war if we
didn't
have so many "Indians" (like Kerry) thinking they were "Chiefs"...


I think the fact that the Chiefs kept acting like Indians caused as many
problems as the reverse. The Johnson and McNamara were doing Frag orders
that should have been done by a Col. at best.

You point out many things that are true... I do not consider myself a
luddite, nor ignorant of the impossibility of turning back the clock; nor of
reversing the industrial revolution so we can all return to Eden: But in
the name of improving the bottom line for the corporate share holders we
exported the smokestack industries leaving ourselves at the mercy of others
to produce and sell back to us those things made of metals and stamped out
by great thumping presses... Then the toaster, and furniture, and clothing,
and glass ware, and on, and on... Then we exported the making of machines
that make machines, also in the name of profit margins, now we are dependent
upon foreign sources for our precision tool machinery... Then we exported
the manufacturing of the televison we gave the world, because there was more
profit, and now we buy all of our television sets from abroad... Next, the
camera went overseas, and the film industry is rapidly following.... Then we
exported the technology of the computer chip we were foremost in inventing,
and now we depend upon others to sell us the chips to make the computers,
again because it was more profitable... Now, the highly skilled software
jobs are fleeing, like thieves in the night, to India because the corporate
CEO can increase profits and make a bonus of millions... And, currently we
are in a titanic struggle over food tariffs and if we lose our sense of
purpose we will become dependent upon foreign sources for a majority of our
basic foodstuffs...
Once, we become totally a nation of hamburger flippers where is the money to
buy the foreign products we are dependent upon going to come from?
denny

"Malcolm Teas" wrote in message
The problem with this recovery is that it's a technical recovery only.
But, that says nothing about
jobs still decreasing, and the ones that are being created are more
often contract temporary positions than permanent ones.

"Dennis O'Connor" wrote in message
...
You point out many things that are true... I do not consider myself a
luddite, nor ignorant of the impossibility of turning back the clock; nor
of
reversing the industrial revolution so we can all return to Eden: But in
the name of improving the bottom line for the corporate share holders we
exported the smokestack industries leaving ourselves at the mercy of
others
to produce and sell back to us those things made of metals and stamped out
by great thumping presses...

The People wanted cleaner air and to get there industry had to leave.

Then the toaster, and furniture, and clothing,
and glass ware, and on, and on... Then we exported the making of machines
that make machines, also in the name of profit margins, now we are
dependent
upon foreign sources for our precision tool machinery...

No, the tool industry is no computerized and obsolete machines are made
overseas.

Then we exported
the manufacturing of the televison we gave the world, because there was
more
profit, and now we buy all of our television sets from abroad...

The best analog picture tubes still come from Pennsylvania. (Sony 27")

Next, the
camera went overseas, and the film industry is rapidly following.... Then
we
exported the technology of the computer chip we were foremost in
inventing,
and now we depend upon others to sell us the chips to make the computers,
again because it was more profitable...

Automated founries don't require many workers and the dies still come from
America. Much like hybrid corn, we control the flow.

Now, the highly skilled software
jobs are fleeing, like thieves in the night, to India because the
corporate
CEO can increase profits and make a bonus of millions... And, currently we
are in a titanic struggle over food tariffs and if we lose our sense of
purpose we will become dependent upon foreign sources for a majority of
our
basic foodstuffs...

Shouldn't we allow the People of India to pull themselves out of poverty?

Once, we become totally a nation of hamburger flippers where is the money
to
buy the foreign products we are dependent upon going to come from?
denny

Services.

"Malcolm Teas" wrote in message
The problem with this recovery is that it's a technical recovery only.
But, that says nothing about
jobs still decreasing, and the ones that are being created are more
often contract temporary positions than permanent ones.

On Wed, 28 Jan 2004 15:35:12 GMT, "Jay Honeck"
wrote:

"Bash it"? It seems to me that he volunteered for dangerous duty in a war
that he didn't completely agree with. He put his ass on the line for his
country, even though he didn't agree with the cause. I'm not sure you'll
see
a better definition of patriotism in your lifetime.

Not saying I disagree with you regarding Kerry's patriotism, but the thought
comes to mind that perhaps we might have actually WON that war if we didn't
have so many "Indians" (like Kerry) thinking they were "Chiefs"...

You really have to wonder how motivated a soldier can be fighting in a war
he actively disagrees with? The next logical question is then: "Can a
soldier act correctly and with all due efficiency fighting a war he does not
support?" Did we lose because of the military rotting from within? Was
Kerry an example of this?

"Sixkiller" may be right : We might have been better off if he had simply
become a conscientious objector.
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"

C'mon Jay, have you done your homework? The US had enough military
force invested in the Vietnamese war to win it, why didn't they? Why
didn't the North Vietnamese simply give up in the face of that
incredible, overwhelming fire power?

C'mon, you know the answer.

We did not capture the nation. The military was denied permission to
invade North Vietnam because Washington was afraid it would upset
China, and we might have another Korean war on our hands. You cannot
win a war through airpower alone, you must capture all the enemy
territory and their leaders and force them to sign a document of
surrender. The military knew this, they asked permission to invade.

And who denied permission to invade? Here's a hint, it wasn't the John
Kerry's who made those kind of decisions.

The war was controled by Washington to the point where Lyndon Johnson
bragged "They can't even hit an outhouse without my permission."

The debacle of the Vietnam War is the reigning example in the history
of warfare of how NOT to fight a war. The military has studied the
defeat in monumental detail. The First Persion Gulf War showed how
well the military learned (actually they knew how to win, they just
weren't allowed to, it required that the White House agree to a
winning battle plan): Blind the enemy, gut their communications,
demoralize their soldiers and then attack swiftly with MASSIVE force.
Roll them up, don't give them a chance to organize, force a
surrender.

So let's not blame Kerry for realizing that the war was bogus right
away and working to get us out of Vietnam when he returned to civilian
life. Even the leaders of those times now admit that getting into
Vietnam was a big and I do mean BIG mistake.

Corky Scott

"Jim Fisher" wrote in message
.. .
| "Toks Desalu" wrote in message
| There is no way to recognize what kind of plane, but it is definitely a
| low
| wing.
|
| Well, there's at least one redeeming quality. However, I think he's
| probably a highwinger in drag.

Jim, have you changed your opinion of highwingers? I thought you believed
that all highwingers were in drag.

"Toks Desalu" wrote in message
news:Q3ARb.169614$na.278314@attbi_s04...
| Hey...
| I haven't said anything. I am not the one who causes the political
debates.

It is OK, Toks. I haven't said anything, either. But I bet I still get
blamed for starting a political debate.

"Tom Sixkiller" wrote in message
...
"Paul Sengupta" wrote in message
...
Hang on, isn't the thread supposed to end once Hitler
has been mentioned?

Only when used as an accusation, rather than an analogy (that Dan totally
missed).


Ok, sorry guys, carry on...

Paul

"Roger Long" om wrote in
message ...
| Yup.
|
| Let's put someone in the White House who can talk sense to the Secret
| Service and homeland security wackos about general aviation.
|

Unfortunately, Mr. Kerry has not shown any tendency to talk sense about
general aviation.

Look, I do not like the Patriot Act, the TFRs, the busybodies who report
pilots to the FBI, Homeland Security, color-coded security levels, or
anything else about our current security stance. I think these things should
be opposed vociferously. Not a single one of the Democratic candidates has
done this. If they have said anything at all, it is that the current
administration's measures are not severe enough. They mumble on about how
the war in Iraq is diverting resources from "fighting terror," meaning more
restrictions at home.

But it helps to keep things in perspective. Even with all these
restrictions, we have a lot more freedom to fly and a lot less government
intrusion than we did during WW II and the years after. The FBI in those
days did not even have to get a court order for a wiretap; they just tapped
the phones of anyone they wanted. No one read criminals their rights; they
instead were taken into back rooms and confessions were beaten out of them.
Even suspected spies (terrorists and saboteurs) have more rights today than
they used to -- even those at Guantanamo. Heck, we don't even shoot
deserters any more.

We are only required to file flight plans before we fly in a couple of
areas. It used to be that a flight plan was mandatory and that much general
aviation was not allowed. For years there was an ADIZ above 10,000 feet that
covered the entire contiguous United States. Thousands of GA airplanes
disappeared in WW II scrap drives. Even if you somehow got permission to
fly, you probably couldn't get fuel. You also could not get tires or rubber
hoses or many other parts needed for maintaining your airplane. We haven't
rounded up all the Moslems and Arabs and put them in internment camps, as we
did the Japanese and threatened to do to Germans and Italians.

When you get right down to it, and I hate to say it, President Bush has not
been nearly as despotic as Franklin Roosevelt was. And yet, his enemies
continually compare him to Adolph Hitler. If Bush was really like Adolph
Hitler, all pilots would be drafted into the Civil Air Patrol and we would
fly 24/7 airspace patrol. The borders would be sealed. The Moslem and Arab
communities would be interned and systematically enslaved and gassed. There
would be no Democratic party. The current Democratic candidates would have
disappeared into the "night and fog" (to quote Hitler) years ago. Movement
from one place to another would be severely restricted. Checkpoints at every
major intersection would be established to check your travel papers.
Everybody would have been LoJacked a long time ago.

And if you think TSA is ridiculous now, imagine if Hitler ran it! "Please
fill out these forms stating your name, race, religion, sexual orientation,
country of origin of your ancestors, height, weight, age, eye color, hair
color, parents' names, race and religion, your current address, reason for
travel, how long you will be gone, your political party or affiliations,
your occupation, your bank account numbers, list of all newspapers,
magazines, and other publications you subscribe to, list of all television
shows you have watched in the last five years, health history (include
copies of all medical records), property you own, a list of all tenants and
guests, etc." "Now, if you will just step into this booth, we will check
your DNA for Moslem or Arab markers. Be sure to leave a urine sample so we
can check you for drugs, explosives, and genetic diseases. You may remove
your clothes for the body cavity search over there. Just get in line with
the rest of the naked people. Your clothes will be burned and you will be
issued your flight jumpsuit as soon as we have analyzed the X-rays. In the
meantime we will scan your computer for encrypted files, pornography, state
secrets and subversive information." "Have you been circumcised? The
in-flight meal will consist of roast pork. You are required to eat it. You
may board as soon as you have stomped on this copy of the Koran."

Does all of that mean that I think the current restrictions are justified?
Heck, no! Nor does it mean that I think that Hitler type restrictions would
not be imposed if politicians of either party thought they could get away
with it. I just want to point out that things could be and have been a lot
worse, and that political affiliation has nothing to do with how nonsensical
these restrictions get.

In article , Corky Scott says...
....
C'mon Jay, have you done your homework? The US had enough military
force invested in the Vietnamese war to win it, why didn't they? Why
didn't the North Vietnamese simply give up in the face of that
incredible, overwhelming fire power?

C'mon, you know the answer.

We did not capture the nation. The military was denied permission to
invade North Vietnam because Washington was afraid it would upset
China, ...

Quite correct and why we can't afford to have a Democrat in the White House
right now. Clinton was adequate to oversee the interim between the cold war and
the terrorist wars but keep in mind that all the of Democratic candidates save
Lieberman (has he dropped out yet?) are anti war and would immediately freeze us
in position like Johnson. The model applied to Germany and Japan will serve the
worlds interest better than that of Vietnam and North Korea.

"Jay Honeck" writes:

Did we lose because of the military rotting from within? Was
Kerry an example of this?

Jay, you've truly reached a new low with this statement.

I could suggest you read, say, "A Rumor of War"...but I won't. You
prefer to remain in a kinda Disneyland world, all fantasy and no
reality.