While we're talking about Garmin GPS

My CFII game me an extensive informal course on the 430 over 3 months of
instruction, but neglected to show me the feature you mentioned on NAV page
4. Up 'til now I only used NAV pages 1-3 (we get the GPS altitude readout on
an MX20) but now that I know that the position feature is there, it'll get a
workout. Thanks!!

Makes me wonder what else is there that I should know about.. Hmmm, looks
like it's time to actually read the manual...


"paul k. sanchez" wrote in message
...
On an IFR proficiency flight with my partner the other day, we got into a
little debate about the best way to use the Garmin 430 for ATC position
reporting. He uses the cursor on the map page to point at an airport or
NAVAID, then reads out the distance and (reciprocal) bearing. I go to
NRST,
and pick an airport or VOR which have continually updated distance and
bearing.
For those 430/530 users out there, which way do you prefer?

Wouldn't it be nice to have a 'Position' button; an easy to reach menu
choice,
softkey or button that gives the following configurable readout (don't
display
what you don't want):

- Distance and reciprocal bearing to the nearest airport (22nm NW Reid
Hillview KRHV)
- Distance and reciprocal bearing to the nearest VOR (10nm SW Mustang FMG
or
maybe 215 Radial?)
- Distance and reciprocal bearing to the nearest NDB
- Distance and reciprocal bearing to the nearest intersection
- Distance and reciprocal bearing to the nearest VFR reporting point
- If within 2nm of any of the above, a message that says "Vicinity Squaw
Valley
SWR" e.g.

Punch the button, wait for the frequency to clear, then just read off the
position to our friends with the big screens. Punch the button again and
you
go back to the previous display. NRST works just fine for me, but it's
always
fun to bitch about your expensive, useful panel toys..



I'm a little bit confused here. NAV page 4 of the Garmin 430 is a position
page
that can be configured to show nearest VOR, radial, distance. In fact it
will
even show a TACAN if it is the nearest NAVAID. It also shows track, ground
speed, calculated altitude, lattitude/longitude.

To configure it press MENU, select "change fields". Move the cursor to the
APT
field, change it to VOR.

Perhaps there is material that your Garmin 430 instructor neglected to
include
in his training syllabus with you. How long of a training course did you
have
on the Garmin 430?

What were you using NAV page 4 for beforehand?


paul k. sanchez, cfii-mei
on eagles' wings
2011 south perimeter road, suite g
fort lauderdale, florida 33309-7135
305-389-1742 wireless
954-776-0527 fax
954-345-4276 home/fax

My CFII game me an extensive informal course on the 430 over 3 months of
instruction, but neglected to show me the feature you mentioned on NAV page 4.
Up 'til now I only used NAV pages 1-3 (we get the GPS altitude readout on an
MX20) but now that I know that the position feature is there, it'll get a
workout. Thanks!!

Makes me wonder what else is there that I should know about.. Hmmm, looks
like it's time to actually read the manual...


Perhaps you categorized it much better than I ever could, an "informal" course
that perhaps was not as effective as you needed it to be. My clients spend 3 to
5 days with me at their location in their aircraft and with the software in
their aircraft.

I sincerely hope that your CFII was not as neglegent in the VNAV programming,
runway extension, motion control without gyros using the map, auto-zooming,
etc.

I am still surprised at how little proficiency most owner operators have in the
use of their equipment. Your statement that your CFII never showed you the VOR
position page clarifies what his own proficiency level is.

I hope you are able to learn what you need in your Garmin 430, and of course if
you can find someone within your budget that would even be better.


paul k. sanchez, cfii-mei
on eagles’ wings
2011 south perimeter road, suite g
fort lauderdale, florida 33309-7135
305-389-1742 wireless
954-776-0527 fax
954-345-4276 home/fax

"Windecks" wrote in message ...
On an IFR proficiency flight with my partner the other day, we got into a
little debate about the best way to use the Garmin 430 for ATC position
reporting. He uses the cursor on the map page to point at an airport or
NAVAID, then reads out the distance and (reciprocal) bearing. I go to NRST,
and pick an airport or VOR which have continually updated distance and
bearing. For those 430/530 users out there, which way do you prefer?

Wouldn't it be nice to have a 'Position' button; an easy to reach menu
choice, softkey or button that gives the following configurable readout
(don't display what you don't want):

- Distance and reciprocal bearing to the nearest airport
(22nm NW Reid Hillview KRHV)
- Distance and reciprocal bearing to the nearest VOR
(10nm SW Mustang FMG or maybe 215 Radial?)
- Distance and reciprocal bearing to the nearest NDB
- Distance and reciprocal bearing to the nearest intersection
- Distance and reciprocal bearing to the nearest VFR reporting point
- If within 2nm of any of the above, a message that says "Vicinity Squaw
Valley SWR" e.g.

Punch the button, wait for the frequency to clear, then just read off the
position to our friends with the big screens. Punch the button again and
you go back to the previous display. NRST works just fine for me, but it's
always fun to bitch about your expensive, useful panel toys..

Not a panel mount, but on my 295, I hit NRST, and then select VOR to
get bearing and range to a the nearest VORs.

-Nathan

Actually, he went through every single page in the 430 in detail, but either
didn't stress the position twiddle, or I simply forgot how to use it. Most
users don't employ every feature, and that doesn't necessarily mean a lack
of proficiency or under-utilization of the box. In this specific case, the
NRST function works great, with the same number of knob clicks.

FYI, this CFII has about 12,000 hours with at least 2/3 of that instruction
given. He's trained 3 generations of instructors on the west coast using
virtually every NAV gizmo made for GA, and is universally respected and
regarded as one of the best around. My sincere hope your is that your
inference about proficiency or lack thereof is limited to this one anecdotal
oversight.


Perhaps you categorized it much better than I ever could, an "informal"
course
that perhaps was not as effective as you needed it to be. My clients spend
3 to
5 days with me at their location in their aircraft and with the software
in
their aircraft.

I sincerely hope that your CFII was not as neglegent in the VNAV
programming,
runway extension, motion control without gyros using the map,
auto-zooming,
etc.

I am still surprised at how little proficiency most owner operators have
in the
use of their equipment. Your statement that your CFII never showed you the
VOR
position page clarifies what his own proficiency level is.

I hope you are able to learn what you need in your Garmin 430, and of
course if
you can find someone within your budget that would even be better.


paul k. sanchez, cfii-mei
on eagles' wings
2011 south perimeter road, suite g
fort lauderdale, florida 33309-7135
305-389-1742 wireless
954-776-0527 fax
954-345-4276 home/fax

"Steven P. McNicoll" wrote:

wrote in message
...

I presume you mean non-radar full position reports. That is where having
the
route as a flight plan would be quite useful.


In that case you'd just report the compulsory reporting points and any
non-compulsory reporting points as instructed by ATC as you encountered
them.

And, that is where having the route as a flight plan loaded into the Garmin
would be useful.

The flight plan page works just fine, and covers the entire route.

Windecks wrote:

Actually, he went through every single page in the 430 in detail, but either
didn't stress the position twiddle, or I simply forgot how to use it. Most
users don't employ every feature, and that doesn't necessarily mean a lack
of proficiency or under-utilization of the box. In this specific case, the
NRST function works great, with the same number of knob clicks.

FYI, this CFII has about 12,000 hours with at least 2/3 of that instruction
given. He's trained 3 generations of instructors on the west coast using
virtually every NAV gizmo made for GA, and is universally respected and
regarded as one of the best around. My sincere hope your is that your
inference about proficiency or lack thereof is limited to this one anecdotal
oversight.

Perhaps you categorized it much better than I ever could, an "informal"
course
that perhaps was not as effective as you needed it to be. My clients spend
3 to
5 days with me at their location in their aircraft and with the software
in
their aircraft.

I sincerely hope that your CFII was not as neglegent in the VNAV
programming,
runway extension, motion control without gyros using the map,
auto-zooming,
etc.

I am still surprised at how little proficiency most owner operators have
in the
use of their equipment. Your statement that your CFII never showed you the
VOR
position page clarifies what his own proficiency level is.

I hope you are able to learn what you need in your Garmin 430, and of
course if
you can find someone within your budget that would even be better.


paul k. sanchez, cfii-mei
on eagles' wings
2011 south perimeter road, suite g
fort lauderdale, florida 33309-7135
305-389-1742 wireless
954-776-0527 fax
954-345-4276 home/fax

wrote in message
...

And, that is where having the route as a flight plan loaded into the
Garmin
would be useful.


Since all the necessary information is provided by the more traditional nav
gear, just how is it useful to load the flight plan into the Garmin?

"Steven P. McNicoll" wrote:

wrote in message
...

And, that is where having the route as a flight plan loaded into the
Garmin
would be useful.


Since all the necessary information is provided by the more traditional nav
gear, just how is it useful to load the flight plan into the Garmin?

It provides an electronic "how goes it" log and ensures you fly legs rather
than direct-to. When the new "G" capstone routes in SE Alaska fire up, there
won't be any underlying VOR route structure, so it will become even more useful
to have a flight plan loaded.

Actually, he went through every single page in the 430 in detail, but either
didn't stress the position twiddle, or I simply forgot how to use it. Most
users don't employ every feature, and that doesn't necessarily mean a lack of
proficiency or under-utilization of the box. In this specific case, the NRST
function works great, with the same number of knob clicks.

FYI, this CFII has about 12,000 hours with at least 2/3 of that instruction
given. He's trained 3 generations of instructors on the west coast using
virtually every NAV gizmo made for GA, and is universally respected and
regarded as one of the best around. My sincere hope your is that your
inference about proficiency or lack thereof is limited to this one anecdotal
oversight.


I would suggest recounting the number of clicks. To go from NAV page 2 to NRST
page 4 requires 3 clicks of large knob (NAV-WPT-AUX-NRST), and then of course
from NRST page 1 to the correct VOR page would require 3 additional clicks of
the small knob (NRST airport-NDB-intersection-VOR). I count 6 clicks of large
and small knob using your prefered method, vs 2 of the small knob going from
NAV2 to NAV4 using my suggestion. Or did I miss something?

And of course I sincerely hope that you are indeed quite happy with the Garmin
430 training. Hopefully you got all that you wanted (and even more importantly
what you needed).


paul k. sanchez, cfii-mei
on eagles’ wings
2011 south perimeter road, suite g
fort lauderdale, florida 33309-7135
305-389-1742 wireless
954-776-0527 fax
954-345-4276 home/fax

With 2 other moving maps available my 430 is usally set to NAV 1 page. If
the VOR NRST has been previously selected it's 3 clicks to either NAV 4 or
VOR NRST. If it hasn't then it's 3 and 6 respectively.

Thanks again for your tips and concern. The 430 is a complex piece of gear
that indeed requires good training and ongoing practice to use effectively.
While I'm comfortable with it, with only 100 or so hours of actual usage in
my own plane I'm still learning and improving my technique.

A newly minted PP-ASEL friend just bought a Cherokee 6 he uses to fly his
family around, and has installed dual 430s. It's painful to watch him
struggle with the units, with 10-15+ seconds of heads-down time not unusual
while he tries to use basic features. In addition to giving some pointers I
constantly urge him to get some training software or take a course, but so
far with no success. You can lead a horse to water but.....


I would suggest recounting the number of clicks. To go from NAV page 2 to
NRST
page 4 requires 3 clicks of large knob (NAV-WPT-AUX-NRST), and then of
course
from NRST page 1 to the correct VOR page would require 3 additional clicks
of
the small knob (NRST airport-NDB-intersection-VOR). I count 6 clicks of
large
and small knob using your prefered method, vs 2 of the small knob going
from
NAV2 to NAV4 using my suggestion. Or did I miss something?

And of course I sincerely hope that you are indeed quite happy with the
Garmin
430 training. Hopefully you got all that you wanted (and even more
importantly
what you needed).


paul k. sanchez, cfii-mei
on eagles' wings
2011 south perimeter road, suite g
fort lauderdale, florida 33309-7135
305-389-1742 wireless
954-776-0527 fax
954-345-4276 home/fax