Busted IFR Checkride

Dave Jacobowitz wrote:
Hey, try not to sweat it. Not passing a check ride
is not a big deal. You take it again.

I blew my PP checkride the first time around. I flew
fine, but exercised poor judgement by flying too close
to a cloud. I believed I was outside the 1000/500/2000
rule, but he didn't, and that was that. I don't blame
the DE for failing me.

I think the hardest part of the whole episode was
looking my instructor in the eye, telling him how I
busted. He knew I was ready, I just f**'d up.

When I took my IFR checkride, my instructor once
again admonished me that "these things are really
harder on the CFII than they are on the student."
I did not want to screw up, and luckily, this time
around I did not.

I did make some mistakes on the checkride. One of
which was flying on a vector right through the FAC
on a partial-panel VOR-A approach to TCY. I was
behind the plane, had not dialed in the OBS as
quickly as I should have, when I did, the needle was
already on the wrong side.

I'm just refreshing myself on the regs getting ready to re-enter flying
after several years off, but I seem to recall that you could have
something like 2/3 or so needle deflection before you are out of
tolerances on VOR tracking. Unless you had FS deflection, I don't see
why the DE would have or should have failed you.


I caught the problem right away, correcting right
away, and said so out loud. The rest of the approach
was sloppy by my standards, but within PTS limits.
Still, the DE could have failed me right then and
there. He elected not to. Luck.

On my instrument ride, the day was very windy giving moderate turbulence
down low and probably a 40K wind higher up. It took me about 3 circuits
to get the holding pattern nailed on both wind correction angle and
timing, but the DE saw that I was getting it closer each time and that
was all he cared about. I think demonstrating good judgement and good
situational awareness is much more important than holding the needle
centered all the time.


Matt

As usual Cecil well stated ... :-) I sure don't know about "having it
all together" but it sure looks good on paper !!! My CFII was on
vacation this week so I called him to tell him of my gloom adn doom... I
could tell by his comments that he was just shaking his head and kinda
laughing knowing that I really can do this "flying thing"... I go up
with him on Monday and get rechecked on Wednesday... Thanks again Cecil
for the kind words.... Hopefully I won't have to be kind to you when you
take your test. :-) JK

Cecil Chapman wrote:

This is a VERY good point, though it would be more accurate to say that
performing a holding pattern truly involves a heightened level of
situational awareness - I think,,,, more so, than most of the instrument
flying skills.

Thankfully, though we are dealing with Jon and most of us know that he has
it all together and that he just 'brain faded' a bit when it got to the
holds. Actually, upon re-reading his account, he had to be exhausted
halfway through his checkride,,, I'd say there was even more pressure on him
than in a 'normal' checkride experience.

Good observation/point, though... very good!

Funny Mark.... my DE busted his IFR ride on the hold too... He said hold
wasn't even close to being racetrack shaped or anywhere near the
racetrack :-) Like others have said this doesn't mean anything in the
big picture.... Thanks again. JK

Mark Astley wrote:

Jon,

Busted rides occasionally happen, and from the numerous posts, it looks like
you're coping just fine. But if you need further cheering up, here's how my
instructor busted HIS ride:

He started off with the easy stuff, tracking to a VOR. However, he missed
the flag switching from TO to FROM, and just kept on tracking. Apparently,
it was a fairly calm day so that little course correction was necessary,
otherwise trying to keep the needle aligned may have clued him in
(eventually). Anyway, the DE let this go on for about 10 minutes or so
before suggesting they do a 180 rather than circle the globe on course. The
rest of the ride went off without a hitch.

blue skies,
mark


"Jon Kraus" wrote in message
.. .


Took my IFR checkride today and busted... I screwed up the holding
pattern big time and that was that... At first I was so damn fustrated
that I told the DE that I just want to head back to the airport... Then
I thought to myself "what are you going to do there pout?" :-) I then
decided to go ahead with the rest of the ride and get it out of the way.
I did OK... not great but passable... This DE made it pretty easy on
me... He was telling me about his IFR checkride and him busting on his
first attempt too... He busted on the holding pattern too so I didn't
feel that bad.. He now has 14,000+ hours and doesn't worry about his
busted IFR checkride so I figured why should I... Now I just need to go
back up with my instructor once, do the freakn' holding pattern... Go
back up with the DE... do the freakn' holding pattern and be done...
More to follow...

Jon Kraus
PP-ASEL
Student-IA Argggg...

Jon Kraus wrote in
:

Funny Mark.... my DE busted his IFR ride on the hold too... He said
hold wasn't even close to being racetrack shaped or anywhere near the
racetrack :-) Like others have said this doesn't mean anything in
the big picture.... Thanks again. JK


When you have a crosswind, the hold will not be a race track pattern. The
outbound should not be parallel to the inbound if there is a crosswind.

On my instrument ride, the day was very windy giving moderate turbulence
down low and probably a 40K wind higher up. It took me about 3 circuits
to get the holding pattern nailed on both wind correction angle and
timing, but the DE saw that I was getting it closer each time and that
was all he cared about. I think demonstrating good judgement and good
situational awareness is much more important than holding the needle
centered all the time.

Me similar. I got blown right across the inbound track on the first
outbound. Luckily I caught it and my SA recovered enough that I was quickly
back on the inbound course. The only thing he dinged me for was not using
the localizer for added SA on an NDB hold (I was trying to do the NDB hold
without "cheating", I guess).

-- David Brooks

Andrew Sarangan wrote in
. 158:

When you have a crosswind, the hold will not be a race track pattern.
The outbound should not be parallel to the inbound if there is a
crosswind.

Why? After the first lap, you should know where the wind is and make
appropriate heading corrections to maintain some semblance of a racetrack
pattern, and you should usually have some idea of the winds, anyway.

In real life, though, nobody cares what the pattern looks like, as long as
you stay in protected airspace. I try to keep it as oval as possible,
though, just out of pride.

--
Regards,

Stan

On 22 Apr 2004 23:59:48 GMT, Andrew Sarangan wrote:

I never understood why holding patterns are so damn important. I have
received a holding clearance only once in my life. Why are they required
for the recency experience and the checkride? Also, why are the entry
procedures so important? Is there any example where an incorrect entry
procedure would have caused an accident?

The only requirement for a holding pattern is to stay within the protected
area. Getting to the holding fix and turning the shortest way to remain
within the protected area can be a simpler (and acceptable) method of
getting into the hold than the "recommended" procedures.

From the IR PTS holding procedures: "Explains and uses an entry
procedure that ensures the aircraft remains within the holding pattern
airspace for a standard, nonstandard, published, or nonpublished holding
pattern."

So far as it's usefulness, just a few days ago I missed an approach into my
home base because the ceiling was below minimums. The missed approach
procedure included a holding pattern. My plan was to hold for a 1/2 hour
and then try the approach again. If that didn't work, I would be off to my
alternate. Of course, my fairly new CNX80 made holding pretty simple. The
box even adjusted the holding pattern size (and shape) to account for the
winds!


Ron (EPM) (N5843Q, Mooney M20E) (CP, ASEL, ASES, IA)

Ron Rosenfeld wrote:
Of course, my fairly new CNX80 made holding pretty simple. The
box even adjusted the holding pattern size (and shape) to account for the
winds!

How does it know what the wind is?

My club has the CNX-80 in four of our planes now. It's a cool radio,
but there is certainly a learning curve. I've got about 25 hours behind
box now, and havn't learned everything there is to know about it yet.

When you have a crosswind, the hold will not be a race track pattern.
The outbound should not be parallel to the inbound if there is a
crosswind.

Why will[ the hold not be a race track pattern]? After the first lap, you
should know where the wind is


Because the round parts will be different radii. You hold constant rate, but
are blown downwind. So, one half circle is little, the other is big.

Jose



--
(for Email, make the obvious changes in my address)

Stan Gosnell wrote in
:

Andrew Sarangan wrote in
. 158:

When you have a crosswind, the hold will not be a race track pattern.
The outbound should not be parallel to the inbound if there is a
crosswind.

Why? After the first lap, you should know where the wind is and make
appropriate heading corrections to maintain some semblance of a
racetrack pattern, and you should usually have some idea of the winds,
anyway.

In real life, though, nobody cares what the pattern looks like, as
long as you stay in protected airspace. I try to keep it as oval as
possible, though, just out of pride.



If you have a crosswind, you can't maintain a racetrack shape if you want
to do standard rate turns. That is why we double the wind correction on
the outbound. The goal is to make standard rate turns on both ends of the
holding pattern, not to keep the outbound parallel to the inbound.