Instrument Approaches in High Winds

Hi folks,

Had a bit of adventure the other night - I was in Stockton, CA on
business. Got back to
the airport in the afternoon, and the winds were up something fierce.
Ground reports from
home in SQL showed pretty nasty winds, too. I think it was 15G22 right
across the
runway. So instead of going home, I went to Fresno, where I had
business to do anyway.
FAT was reporting W290@20 - nasty enough, but not gusting and right
down the runway.
And I figured it would only get better, because the sun - the engine
that drives high afternoon
winds in the Valley - was down. Sure enough, the FAT atis dropped to
16, then 12 knots
as I flew.

However, my actual destination was FCH, a nearby uncontrolled
field. The pattern was
uncomfortable, pitch black, high winds, and turbulence. After
landing, I thought - "Gee,
an ILS would have been nice". Or at least a GPS approach. Not because
of bad visibility - it
was severe clear except for being dark - but rather because instrument
approaches do
not feature much maneuvering at low altitudes. And I personally find
turbulence more
comfortable if I'm not turning..... Next time this happens, I might
just swing over to FAT
and use the ILS.

- Jerry Kaidor (
)

Come to Kansas for a few days, any time of the year. We
often have winds that are 25G40, most of our runways are
pretty well laid out, but some airports do require a
crosswind landing. Of course, we routinely solo students as
long as the wind is less than 25 knots and the gusts are
minimal. But since this is Kansas, where the wind comes
sweeping down the plains, we often can have a solid day or
two of steady 25 to 40 knot winds. Our bad weather starts
at 60 knots with 2 inch hail (a golf ball is 1-3/4 inch).

One day I remember watching the airliners land. It was calm
and they all were landing very long, those calm winds are a
real problem.


--
James H. Macklin
ATP,CFI,A&P

wrote in message
oups.com...
| Hi folks,
|
| Had a bit of adventure the other night - I was in
Stockton, CA on
| business. Got back to
| the airport in the afternoon, and the winds were up
something fierce.
| Ground reports from
| home in SQL showed pretty nasty winds, too. I think it
was 15G22 right
| across the
| runway. So instead of going home, I went to Fresno,
where I had
| business to do anyway.
| FAT was reporting W290@20 - nasty enough, but not gusting
and right
| down the runway.
| And I figured it would only get better, because the sun -
the engine
| that drives high afternoon
| winds in the Valley - was down. Sure enough, the FAT atis
dropped to
| 16, then 12 knots
| as I flew.
|
| However, my actual destination was FCH, a nearby
uncontrolled
| field. The pattern was
| uncomfortable, pitch black, high winds, and turbulence.
After
| landing, I thought - "Gee,
| an ILS would have been nice". Or at least a GPS approach.
Not because
| of bad visibility - it
| was severe clear except for being dark - but rather
because instrument
| approaches do
| not feature much maneuvering at low altitudes. And I
personally find
| turbulence more
| comfortable if I'm not turning..... Next time this
happens, I might
| just swing over to FAT
| and use the ILS.
|
| - Jerry
Kaidor (
| )
|

Jim Macklin wrote:
Come to Kansas for a few days, any time of the year. We
often have winds that are 25G40, most of our runways are
pretty well laid out, but some airports do require a
crosswind landing. Of course, we routinely solo students as
long as the wind is less than 25 knots and the gusts are
minimal. But since this is Kansas, where the wind comes
sweeping down the plains, we often can have a solid day or
two of steady 25 to 40 knot winds. Our bad weather starts
at 60 knots with 2 inch hail (a golf ball is 1-3/4 inch).

One day I remember watching the airliners land. It was calm
and they all were landing very long, those calm winds are a
real problem.


--
James H. Macklin
ATP,CFI,A&P


That was exactly my observation too when I lived in Albuquerque. I used
to solo students at 25 knots. When I moved east, I got all kind of
weird looks and comments like "test pilot" and "against the aircraft
certificaton" etc.. when I tried to send students in more than 10
knots.

Andrew Sarangan wrote:
Jim Macklin wrote:

Come to Kansas for a few days, any time of the year. We
often have winds that are 25G40, most of our runways are
pretty well laid out, but some airports do require a
crosswind landing. Of course, we routinely solo students as
long as the wind is less than 25 knots and the gusts are
minimal. But since this is Kansas, where the wind comes
sweeping down the plains, we often can have a solid day or
two of steady 25 to 40 knot winds. Our bad weather starts
at 60 knots with 2 inch hail (a golf ball is 1-3/4 inch).

One day I remember watching the airliners land. It was calm
and they all were landing very long, those calm winds are a
real problem.


--
James H. Macklin
ATP,CFI,A&P



That was exactly my observation too when I lived in Albuquerque. I used
to solo students at 25 knots. When I moved east, I got all kind of
weird looks and comments like "test pilot" and "against the aircraft
certificaton" etc.. when I tried to send students in more than 10
knots.


If the 25 knots was orthogonal to the runway, then I understand the
weird looks. If it was a headwind aligned with the runway, then not a
big deal. Taxiing might be a little interesting if the trainer is a
C152, but landing should be easy ... and very short!

Matt

I guess what I was trying to say was those who live in less windy areas
tend to think of the "demonstrated crosswind" are a real limitation.


Matt Whiting wrote:
Andrew Sarangan wrote:
Jim Macklin wrote:

Come to Kansas for a few days, any time of the year. We
often have winds that are 25G40, most of our runways are
pretty well laid out, but some airports do require a
crosswind landing. Of course, we routinely solo students as
long as the wind is less than 25 knots and the gusts are
minimal. But since this is Kansas, where the wind comes
sweeping down the plains, we often can have a solid day or
two of steady 25 to 40 knot winds. Our bad weather starts
at 60 knots with 2 inch hail (a golf ball is 1-3/4 inch).

One day I remember watching the airliners land. It was calm
and they all were landing very long, those calm winds are a
real problem.


--
James H. Macklin
ATP,CFI,A&P



That was exactly my observation too when I lived in Albuquerque. I used
to solo students at 25 knots. When I moved east, I got all kind of
weird looks and comments like "test pilot" and "against the aircraft
certificaton" etc.. when I tried to send students in more than 10
knots.


If the 25 knots was orthogonal to the runway, then I understand the
weird looks. If it was a headwind aligned with the runway, then not a
big deal. Taxiing might be a little interesting if the trainer is a
C152, but landing should be easy ... and very short!

Matt

I have taken off with calm winds and had 40 knots 1/2 an
hour later. If you don't teach students to fly in strong
winds, you are not preparing them for changes in the
weather.

First solo at 25 knots isn't a problem, we have probably
flown many dual lessons at 25 knots or more. We also seek
out strong crosswinds.


--
James H. Macklin
ATP,CFI,A&P

"Andrew Sarangan" wrote in message
oups.com...
|
| Jim Macklin wrote:
| Come to Kansas for a few days, any time of the year. We
| often have winds that are 25G40, most of our runways are
| pretty well laid out, but some airports do require a
| crosswind landing. Of course, we routinely solo
students as
| long as the wind is less than 25 knots and the gusts are
| minimal. But since this is Kansas, where the wind comes
| sweeping down the plains, we often can have a solid day
or
| two of steady 25 to 40 knot winds. Our bad weather
starts
| at 60 knots with 2 inch hail (a golf ball is 1-3/4
inch).
|
| One day I remember watching the airliners land. It was
calm
| and they all were landing very long, those calm winds
are a
| real problem.
|
|
| --
| James H. Macklin
| ATP,CFI,A&P
|
|
| That was exactly my observation too when I lived in
Albuquerque. I used
| to solo students at 25 knots. When I moved east, I got all
kind of
| weird looks and comments like "test pilot" and "against
the aircraft
| certificaton" etc.. when I tried to send students in more
than 10
| knots.
|

Positioning the flight controls properly is essential. Too
many pilots trained in calm winds only [It windy today
should mean go fly, too often it is a day for ground school]
only. They are always at the mercy of any weather change.


--
James H. Macklin
ATP,CFI,A&P

"Matt Whiting" wrote in message
...
| Andrew Sarangan wrote:
| Jim Macklin wrote:
|
| Come to Kansas for a few days, any time of the year. We
| often have winds that are 25G40, most of our runways are
| pretty well laid out, but some airports do require a
| crosswind landing. Of course, we routinely solo
students as
| long as the wind is less than 25 knots and the gusts are
| minimal. But since this is Kansas, where the wind comes
| sweeping down the plains, we often can have a solid day
or
| two of steady 25 to 40 knot winds. Our bad weather
starts
| at 60 knots with 2 inch hail (a golf ball is 1-3/4
inch).
|
| One day I remember watching the airliners land. It was
calm
| and they all were landing very long, those calm winds
are a
| real problem.
|
|
| --
| James H. Macklin
| ATP,CFI,A&P
|
|
|
| That was exactly my observation too when I lived in
Albuquerque. I used
| to solo students at 25 knots. When I moved east, I got
all kind of
| weird looks and comments like "test pilot" and "against
the aircraft
| certificaton" etc.. when I tried to send students in
more than 10
| knots.
|
|
| If the 25 knots was orthogonal to the runway, then I
understand the
| weird looks. If it was a headwind aligned with the
runway, then not a
| big deal. Taxiing might be a little interesting if the
trainer is a
| C152, but landing should be easy ... and very short!
|
| Matt

Yes, they do think that. It is a fact that was just as much
wind as was blowing the day they did the proving test for
certification. The FAR 23 sets a minimum wind as a function
of stall speed, but with proper technique the actual limit
is much higher. Just to make the point, if the runway is
3,500 x 150 feet and the crosswind is 40 knots, you can land
at an angle on the runway, reducing the crosswind component.


--
James H. Macklin
ATP,CFI,A&P

"Andrew Sarangan" wrote in message
oups.com...
|I guess what I was trying to say was those who live in less
windy areas
| tend to think of the "demonstrated crosswind" are a real
limitation.
|
|
| Matt Whiting wrote:
| Andrew Sarangan wrote:
| Jim Macklin wrote:
|
| Come to Kansas for a few days, any time of the year.
We
| often have winds that are 25G40, most of our runways
are
| pretty well laid out, but some airports do require a
| crosswind landing. Of course, we routinely solo
students as
| long as the wind is less than 25 knots and the gusts
are
| minimal. But since this is Kansas, where the wind
comes
| sweeping down the plains, we often can have a solid
day or
| two of steady 25 to 40 knot winds. Our bad weather
starts
| at 60 knots with 2 inch hail (a golf ball is 1-3/4
inch).
|
| One day I remember watching the airliners land. It
was calm
| and they all were landing very long, those calm winds
are a
| real problem.
|
|
| --
| James H. Macklin
| ATP,CFI,A&P
|
|
|
| That was exactly my observation too when I lived in
Albuquerque. I used
| to solo students at 25 knots. When I moved east, I got
all kind of
| weird looks and comments like "test pilot" and
"against the aircraft
| certificaton" etc.. when I tried to send students in
more than 10
| knots.
|
|
| If the 25 knots was orthogonal to the runway, then I
understand the
| weird looks. If it was a headwind aligned with the
runway, then not a
| big deal. Taxiing might be a little interesting if the
trainer is a
| C152, but landing should be easy ... and very short!
|
| Matt
|

"Jim Macklin" wrote in message
news:9HCAg.85011$ZW3.63530@dukeread04...
Positioning the flight controls properly is essential. Too
many pilots trained in calm winds only [It windy today
should mean go fly, too often it is a day for ground school]
only. They are always at the mercy of any weather change.

Couldn't agree more. When I was training, we experienced the aircraft's
maximum headwind and crosswind at various times, and it was valuable
experience - if only to demonstrate that the wing didn't bang into the
ground even though it looked like it was going to! And I remember the first
calm day - landed considerably further into the runway than ever before!

D.

Andrew Sarangan wrote:
I guess what I was trying to say was those who live in less windy areas
tend to think of the "demonstrated crosswind" are a real limitation.

Yes, that is true. I learned at a mountaintop airport in PA with an
east/west runway, but with a large valley (called the PA Grand Canyon)
that runs north/south just southwest of the airport that channels the
prevailing west wind into a north of south wind right across the runway.
The only crosswind limitation I was taught was running out of rudder.
and even then, you could land on the grass strip as it would take a
little bit of lateral misalignment at touchdown.

I don't know what the limit for a Skylane is, but I've landed in 18K
crosswinds before. Since I never crashed it, I don't really know the
limit. :-)


Matt