Crashing on takeoff... how odd

In article . com,
wrote:

Alex Pitschmann wrote:
I can see how they got disoriented in the dark (my guess)

Dark at 38N at 7am in Aug??

Yes, LEX is on the western edge of the Eastern Time Zone.
Sunrise is just before 7 AM. The aircraft departed about 6:04 AM.

Dave Stadt wrote:


None of that does any good if you taxi to and attempt to takeoff from a
runway that is about half the length of of the runway you intended to use.


Yep, I'd misunderstood Gaquin's post - or didn't comprehend, as Mr.
Farris pointed out

Ramapriya

(Tony" wrote)
Aen't all airline pilots required to operate from the field before they
carry passengers from it?


I've never heard of this before.


Montblack

john smith wrote:

Dark at 38N at 7am in Aug??

Yes, LEX is on the western edge of the Eastern Time Zone.
Sunrise is just before 7 AM. The aircraft departed about 6:04 AM.


I checked out a couple of news sites and they do mention the time that
you do, but I bet I saw Fox and Sky News last evening and they both
mentioned 7 am!

Fwiw, at 6.15 am, which is when I leave for work, my C240's auto
headlights don't come on. That must translate into adequate enough
daylight at that time of the day here in Dubai!

Ramapriya

wrote in message
oups.com...
Newps wrote:

Full nose up trim is immediately apparent on the application of power.
The fact that he let it get away from him says it all. It doesn't take
a lot of forward stick after takeoff to put the nose where it needs to
be.


One more non-aviator question here - is upset recovery training not
normally part of the licensing procedure? What Larry described seems a
good example of upset.

Ramapriya


In the United States the emphasis is on Angle of Attack Awareness and Stall
Avoidance.

You do fly both power on (take off / departure) stalls and power off
(landing) stalls as well as turning stalls but full on unusual attitude
recovery (in the sense in which I think you are referring) is not a part of
the private pilot sylabus, no.

Experiencing the pitch authority of full up trim at high power settings and
how abrupt can be a Trim Stall should, IMO, be emphasized more stridently
than it is (at least in the King Cessna course.)

Jay B

Perhaps more than the short runway, rising terrain off the
end of runway 26 looks to be in the take-off path. It will
be weeks before the calculations are verified, the ATC and
CVR tapes checked and the FDR completely investigated.


--
James H. Macklin
ATP,CFI,A&P

wrote in message
oups.com...
| Matt Whiting wrote:
|
| You are assuming that all such crashes are due to
partial power loss. Isn't so. One
| airplane crash on takeoff a few years ago was due to a
problem with the elevator trim, if I
| recall correctly. Also, a weight and balance issue can
cause a crash right after takeoff as
| can myriad other problems not related to power.
|
|
| Well, why then do you guys dread an engine failure more
than anything
| else? The reason is because other factors are pretty
much within
| your control - pitch trim, aircraft loading, choice of
runway,
| condition of the tires and whatever else. Engines too I'm
sure aren't
| altogether iffy but there's an element of risk of a
failure because of
| their enormous complexity - and nobody can deny that there
isn't
| anything simple about a turbine!
|
| Someone on this thread mentioned 'loss of control
surfaces' as one of
| the many possible reasons - what does that mean? A
hydraulic failure
| that altogether prevents aileron, elevator and rudder
control?
|
| Ramapriya
|

Another piece of the "How'd They Manage To Do That" puzzle:

If you are sitting at the departure end of a 7000' runway, only 1000' ahead
of you is a big white 6 on a black background.
If you are sitting at the departure end of a 3500' runway, presumeably ony
500' ahead of you is a big white 3.

Really a strange situation.

Jay B

Jay Beckman wrote:
Another piece of the "How'd They Manage To Do That" puzzle:

If you are sitting at the departure end of a 7000' runway, only 1000' ahead
of you is a big white 6 on a black background.


If the board you mention is backlit, this is a very, very valid point,
which was obviously lost in the high-workload atmosphere.

Ramapriya

That may not be the case, downloaded the IAP charts and
looked at a topo map of the airport area, it appears that
the terrain slopes downward off the end of rwy 26, but that
does not include trees and buildings.
http://www.topozone.com/map.asp?lat=...ad27&layer=DRG

Reports are that they hit the airport fence, that would have
seriously impacted climb.

BTW, for those who suggested that the crew may have set the
HI to the wrong heading, transport jets have dual slaved
compass systems.



"Jim Macklin" wrote
in message news:O8vIg.6171$SZ3.5038@dukeread04...
| Perhaps more than the short runway, rising terrain off the
| end of runway 26 looks to be in the take-off path. It
will
| be weeks before the calculations are verified, the ATC and
| CVR tapes checked and the FDR completely investigated.
|
|
| --
| James H. Macklin
| ATP,CFI,A&P
|
| wrote in message
|
oups.com...
|| Matt Whiting wrote:
||
|| You are assuming that all such crashes are due to
| partial power loss. Isn't so. One
|| airplane crash on takeoff a few years ago was due to a
| problem with the elevator trim, if I
|| recall correctly. Also, a weight and balance issue can
| cause a crash right after takeoff as
|| can myriad other problems not related to power.
||
||
|| Well, why then do you guys dread an engine failure more
| than anything
|| else? The reason is because other factors are pretty
| much within
|| your control - pitch trim, aircraft loading, choice of
| runway,
|| condition of the tires and whatever else. Engines too I'm
| sure aren't
|| altogether iffy but there's an element of risk of a
| failure because of
|| their enormous complexity - and nobody can deny that
there
| isn't
|| anything simple about a turbine!
||
|| Someone on this thread mentioned 'loss of control
| surfaces' as one of
|| the many possible reasons - what does that mean? A
| hydraulic failure
|| that altogether prevents aileron, elevator and rudder
| control?
||
|| Ramapriya
||
|
|

wrote in message

Fwiw, at 6.15 am, which is when I leave for work, my C240's auto
headlights don't come on. That must translate into adequate enough
daylight at that time of the day here in Dubai!

If your lights don't come on at 0615, then it is surely light enough. But
bear this in mind: Lexington, KY, is near the western edge of Time Zone R,
known as Eastern (Daylight) Time. Being at the western edge, the entire
span of daylight will be skewed a bit later than nominal for that time zone.
Dubai, on the other hand, is at the extreme eastern side of Time Zone C,
Middle East Time. In point of fact, Dubai is geographically located well
into Time Zone D, although it appears the entire UAE uses the UTC +3 of Zone
C. Being at the extreme eastern edge of your zone, your daylight span will
be substantially skewed toward the earlier range of the clock.

Consequently, sunrise on August 27 occurred at 0457 in Dubai, but 0704 in
Lexington, KY.