interesting moment yesterday on final

Mike 'Flyin'8' wrote:

I have always (though my flying career is still quite young) entered
on the 45. If I have to go out of my way to enter on the 45, that I
what I do.


I never do, unless my direction from the airport lends an entry on the
downwind. Fly past the airport just so I can get on a 45? You must be
joking.



Would I cut someone off on a disruptive straight in, no.
Are they in the wrong, IMHO yes they are, but I can't argue about it
if I am dead.


You are wrong.

Erik wrote:

RomeoMike wrote:
Maybe Erik was being sarcastic?

Exactly my point. I can understand some big jet or something that
can't fly the same pattern the little 150 flies, so I'll
accommodate them. If some other 150 comes in and wants to straight
in and and there's already people in the pattern, get in line, pal,
or wait until there's nobody to disrupt to practice long finals.

have you considered that the aircraft might have been on an instrument
approach? he might have been just told to switch the CTAF and was
announcing his presence and intention avoiding IFR jargon.

--Sylvain

On Apr 27, 3:14 pm, Newps wrote:

So you'll gladly adjust the size of your pattern, maybe extend an upwind
or crosswind to fit somebody in the pattern because he enters it the
'right' way. But if he tries to enter on a straight in it's disrupting
the pattern?

WEEEeeeeellll, come to think of it......yeah. Yeah, that pretty much
sums it up, for the most part. There being exceptions and all.

If you come to the playground, you should make nice with everyone
instead of telling them to all hold off, now that you're here and
all. Especially since some of them might not have radios.

Mike 'Flyin'8' wrote:

I have always (though my flying career is still quite young) entered
on the 45. If I have to go out of my way to enter on the 45, that I
what I do.

I never do, unless my direction from the airport lends an entry on the
downwind. Fly past the airport just so I can get on a 45? You must be
joking.

No. I am not joking. How do you enter the pattern? Certaily not a
straight in at every field. I think I have entered direct on the
downwind once, but it was at 10pm and not another craft was in the
area, but that is not what we are talking about here.

Would I cut someone off on a disruptive straight in, no.
Are they in the wrong, IMHO yes they are, but I can't argue about it
if I am dead.

You are wrong.

No matter how you want to look at it, if there are already some planes
in the pattern a straight-in approach is disruptive. Besides that...
doing the 45 entry. In the end, your and my safety is all that
matters. So what if it takes 2 extra minutes to enter the pattern the
way the majority of the pilots at a particular field expect patern
entry.
Mike Flyin' 8

http://www.avweb.com/news/pelican/182100-1.html
The 45-Degree Zealots

There's not a syllable in the FARs about 45-degree traffic pattern entries.
Nor does the AIM require them. There exists, however, a small-but-vocal
cadre of pilots - and even some FAA inspectors - who consider any other type
of pattern entry (straight-in, crosswind, etc.) to be a felony. These

By John Deakin

I would consider myself far from a 45 entry nazi. I have never
complained to anyone on CTAF, nor would I. While in the privacy of my
own cockpit, I do flip them off as they pop up unannounced out of
nowhere. slight exageration for most cases but you get the point.


Mike Flyin' 8

"Erik" wrote in message
...

Because straight in approaches at an uncontrolled airport
disrupt the pattern that everyone is using.


No more so than entering on the downwind .



Perhaps if there
were no other traffic at the time, it would be perfectly fine
but when everyone is in line and doing their thing, someone
cutting in sucks.


A straight-in approach is not "cutting in". Too many pilots believe pattern
traffic has the right -of-way.



There is a fairly large municipal airport
nearby that accommodates jets and sometimes, we single engine
folk have to anticipate them, but it still disrupts things.


Right. It's far better to have the jet fly a full pattern and mix it up
with the single engine folks than to have the single engine folks extend
downwind to follow a jet on a straight in approach.

"Erik" wrote in message
...

Inconsiderate and unsafe.


How so?

"Judah" wrote in message
. ..

If he was IFR, ATC would have probably informed him there was traffic in
the pattern at his destination and might have tried to wait until he had a
visual before allowing him to change frequency.


If ATC was showing traffic at his destination he should have been advised of
that before frequency change, but the frequency change shouldn't be delayed.

"Steven P. McNicoll" wrote in
ink.net:

If ATC was showing traffic at his destination he should have been
advised of that before frequency change, but the frequency change
shouldn't be delayed.

Should is a very important word here...

From my own experience, if I call the traffic and the airport, ATC will
advise me to change frequency and allow me to cancel IFR if I am VMC. But if
I don't see one or the other or both, they will typically hand me off around
5-10 miles out.

If it's an ILS in IMC, they'll hand me off just outside the FAF, which is
typically 5 miles out.

If they hand me off on the late side of that curve, and I'm in a Bonanza,
still slowing down from 3 miles / minute to my approach speed of about 2
miles / minute, and I take 30 seconds to cancel IFR, switch over, and listen
on the frequency before announcing, I'm all of a sudden on a 3.5 mile final
when I announce.

The OPs message doesn't seem like an unlikely scenario, and it sounds like it
was handled just fine...

Steven P. McNicoll wrote:
"Judah" wrote in message
. ..
If he was IFR, ATC would have probably informed him there was traffic in
the pattern at his destination and might have tried to wait until he had a
visual before allowing him to change frequency.


If ATC was showing traffic at his destination he should have been advised of
that before frequency change, but the frequency change shouldn't be delayed.



If ATC can show traffic at the destination. Where I fly, KELD Ft Worth
center can't see anything below 2000 feet. The Traffic pattern is half
that.