contact terminology?

ATC: airplane 67Z, "traffic westbound at your 2 o'clock, 5000 feet"

Now, if I see the traffic, it's "airplane 67Z has the traffic"

What if I don't have it visually, but it shows up on my traffic
display? I've heard stuff like "yep, got 'im on the fishfinder" but
I'm wondering if there is a standard "official" response?

there's also the thought that if you don't have it visually, you don't
really "have it" - i.e. the electronic display does not provide as
good separation info as actually seeing the traffic with your Mark 1
eyeball.

paul kgyy writes:

What if I don't have it visually, but it shows up on my traffic
display?

"Negative contact."

It's good if you have it on your traffic display, but you technically need
visual contact in order to assume responsibility for separation.

there's also the thought that if you don't have it visually, you don't
really "have it" - i.e. the electronic display does not provide as
good separation info as actually seeing the traffic with your Mark 1
eyeball.

Yes, especially since TCAS displays are not very accurate in azimuth.

Anthony, can you cite a source that supports your answer? Of course not, you
never do, and your responses really don't matter since you don't fly and
never have.

You know nothing about traffic displays or how they work, and have certainly
never seen or used one. You have never seen converging traffic from an
aircraft except in your imagination or in MSFS, and neither of these means
anything to those of us who actually fly.

paul kgyy wrote:
ATC: airplane 67Z, "traffic westbound at your 2 o'clock, 5000 feet"

Now, if I see the traffic, it's "airplane 67Z has the traffic"

What if I don't have it visually, but it shows up on my traffic
display? I've heard stuff like "yep, got 'im on the fishfinder" but
I'm wondering if there is a standard "official" response?


Having them on the 'fishfinder' is not an acceptable alternative to
having visual contact with the traffic.... IMHO.. traffic awareness
displays are tools to help visualize traffic, not substitutes for
fundamental piloting skills.

I have no experience nor opinion on true TCAS devices, for which pilots
are intended to obey resolution alerts without fail, and which are much
more sophisticated than what I consider 'fishfinder' material

Also, if the target is going to be behind you, you really cant
reasonably maintain visual separation. I was passing over Easterwood
Field (college station, Texas) coming home one afternoon. An American
Eagle turboprop was climbing out and didn't have me.. I had him, but his
climb profile was going to put him behind me yet not on a diverging
course. I told the tower that I would not be able to keep visual on him,
and the end result was the commuter had to level off for a minute until
we were clear of each other/ had a diverging track on radar (ensuring
separation..)

Dave

Mxsmanic wrote:

Yes, especially since TCAS displays are not very accurate in azimuth.

You know nothing of the technical standards regarding TCAS, nor the
operational requirements of using one. TCAS is not the only traffic
display device out there.

Please restrict your answers to material you know about... maybe
microsoft flight-sim?

On Sep 8, 6:27 pm, "Viperdoc" wrote:
Anthony, can you cite a source that supports your answer? Of course not, you
never do, and your responses really don't matter since you don't fly and
never have.
According to this passage:
When reporting other aircraft to ATC, the following terminology
shall be utilized: "Traffic in sight" or "negative contact." "Tally
ho" and other such phrases not found in the pilot/controller
glossary shall not be utilized. "Roger" shall only be utilized to
indicate reception of a transmission, not an "affirmative" or
"negative" response. "Wilco" shall be utilized to indicate reception
and compliance.
cited from http://www.tpub.com/content/aviation.../P-5100014.htm
the military apparently does use the term.

Or how about this? http://www.faa.gov/airports_airtraff...pubs/PCG/N.HTM
states:
NEGATIVE CONTACT- Used by pilots to inform ATC that:

a. Previously issued traffic is not in sight. It may be followed by
the pilot's request for the controller to provide assistance in
avoiding the traffic.

b. They were unable to contact ATC on a particular frequency.
so anthony did not give erroneous information even though he did not
cite sources.

shywon ( Another flight sim pilot who does have a few hrs in real life
who is tired of the bashing every comment this guy makes)







You know nothing about traffic displays or how they work, and have certainly
never seen or used one. You have never seen converging traffic from an
aircraft except in your imagination or in MSFS, and neither of these means
anything to those of us who actually fly.

"paul kgyy" wrote in message
...
ATC: airplane 67Z, "traffic westbound at your 2 o'clock, 5000 feet"

Now, if I see the traffic, it's "airplane 67Z has the traffic"

Actually the correct phrase is "airplane 67Z traffic in sight", although few
controllers are going to care either way.


What if I don't have it visually, but it shows up on my traffic
display? I've heard stuff like "yep, got 'im on the fishfinder" but
I'm wondering if there is a standard "official" response?

there's also the thought that if you don't have it visually, you don't
really "have it" - i.e. the electronic display does not provide as
good separation info as actually seeing the traffic with your Mark 1
eyeball.

As has already been posted, the pilot-controller glossary will usually have
the answer to these types of questions. Another excellent publication to
keep by the commode is the ATC order 7110.65. Although it's certainly not
required reading for pilots, it's very handy to have because with it you can
also see what may be coming next.
http://www.faa.gov/airports_airtraff.../media/ATC.pdf

For instance, when the controller issues traffic, and you have the traffic
in sight, one thing you can include is...

"airplane 67Z traffic in sight, will maintain visual separation".

The reason is because if you don't include it, the next instruction from the
controller might be "maintain visual separation" and you will have to
acknowledge that instruction. So it makes both of your jobs easier by
including it in your first response.

Personally I dearly love to use the phrase, "got 'im on the fishfinder"
because it's just one of those very cool pilot phrases that scores you
points with just about everyone. Everyone that is except the controller who
will find it about as welcome as a fart in church. The controller has
without a doubt heard it quite a few times so the novelty has long since
worn off and it conveys no useful information to them.

Dave S writes:

You know nothing of the technical standards regarding TCAS, nor the
operational requirements of using one.

I know that TCAS displays are mediocre in azimuth, and that their accuracy in
this respect depends hugely on the design of the hardware on the local
aircraft (since it must depend essentially on radar sweeps to determine
azimuth). Distance is more reliable. Altitude depends on the accuracy of the
remote transponder.

TCAS is not the only traffic display device out there.

What other ones are there, and how do they work?

"Mxsmanic" wrote in message
...
Dave S writes:

You know nothing of the technical standards regarding TCAS, nor the
operational requirements of using one.

I know that TCAS displays are mediocre in azimuth, and that their accuracy
in
this respect depends hugely on the design of the hardware on the local
aircraft (since it must depend essentially on radar sweeps to determine
azimuth). Distance is more reliable. Altitude depends on the accuracy of
the
remote transponder.

TCAS is not the only traffic display device out there.

What other ones are there, and how do they work?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eye

Mxsmanic wrote:
Dave S writes:


You know nothing of the technical standards regarding TCAS, nor the
operational requirements of using one.


I know that TCAS displays are mediocre in azimuth, and that their accuracy in
this respect depends hugely on the design of the hardware on the local
aircraft (since it must depend essentially on radar sweeps to determine
azimuth). Distance is more reliable. Altitude depends on the accuracy of the
remote transponder.


TCAS is not the only traffic display device out there.


What other ones are there, and how do they work?

PLEASE REAL PILOTS: IGNORE WITH THIS PRETEND PILOT HAS TO SAY. HE IS A
GENUINE HAZARD TO AVIATION.