Airliner crew flies 150 miles past airport

In article ,
brian whatcott wrote:

Mike Ash wrote:

It's the accent upon the 100+ miles that gets me.
In a car world 100+ miles -is- a long way.
In an airliner at 400 knots that's 15 minutes.

News companies are more interested in getting a story than actually
informing people. "150 miles" sounds scarier and gets more eyeballs than
"15 minutes", so that's what they print. It's sad, but I don't know how
to fix it.


Would you prefer the "out of contact with Air Traffic for One hour" slant?

Yes! That's the major problem behind what happened. The 150-mile
(15-minute?) overshoot is trivial by comparison. It *should* be the
focus of the headlines.

--
Mike Ash
Radio Free Earth
Broadcasting from our climate-controlled studios deep inside the Moon

On Oct 27, 1:06*pm, D Ramapriya wrote:
On 27 Oct, 21:02, Jeffrey Bloss wrote:



Translation: In the end, no one cares why they ****ed up, they're
history in CA.

CA = Civil Aviation?

Ramapriya

Civil aviation = general aviation, aka GA (which is not Georgia) g

On 27 Oct, 16:51, a wrote:
On Oct 27, 12:09*am, Mike Ash wrote:

There's something of a different lesson here, isn't there? We, who
know something about aviation, find flaws with the reporters who focus
on elements of the story that are not important. Given that, when the
writing is about something about which we know little, we have to be
concerned about the importance (it was 150 miles, after all) as
presented as being the important ones and overlooking what really
matters (not paying attention to flying the airplane, not being in
radio contact,).


We don't yet know if they'd set up the auto-repeating CPDLC. I've
heard that a majority of pilots these days resort to only the most
minimal radio transmissions while the cool CPDLC keeps everyone happy.

Ramapriya

On Oct 27, 10:42*pm, Mike Ash wrote:
In article ,
*brian whatcott wrote:

Mike Ash wrote:

It's the accent upon the 100+ miles that gets me.
In a car world 100+ miles -is- a long way.
In an airliner at 400 knots that's 15 minutes.

News companies are more interested in getting a story than actually
informing people. "150 miles" sounds scarier and gets more eyeballs than
"15 minutes", so that's what they print. It's sad, but I don't know how
to fix it.

Would you prefer the "out of contact with Air Traffic for One hour" slant?

Yes! That's the major problem behind what happened. The 150-mile
(15-minute?) overshoot is trivial by comparison. It *should* be the
focus of the headlines.

--
Mike Ash
Radio Free Earth
Broadcasting from our climate-controlled studios deep inside the Moon

This crew willfully endangered the lives of passengers by violating
company policy and Federal regulations. Flying in Class A airspace
without a clearance and without radio contact with the controllers
endangers not only the one airplane but every airplane that that one
airplane might collide with. Emergency revocation of their tickets
was hardly overkill.

Comparisons to drunk drivers getting off light are a poor analogy.
How many of those drunk drivers are commercial bus drivers and do they
retain their tickets? I doubt it. Professional pilots and
professional drivers are held to higher standard than their private
brethren.

On 28 Oct, 21:48, 150flivver wrote:

This crew willfully endangered the lives of passengers by violating

Willfully doesn't = negligently, and negligence was what seemingly
happened. Willful actions are way more serious and should necessarily
have an element of intention. In this case, the sods weren't even
aware that they'd overflown the destination until a stewardess jogged
them.


company policy and Federal regulations. *Flying in Class A airspace
without a clearance and without radio contact with the controllers
endangers not only the one airplane but every airplane that that one
airplane might collide with.


You must be joking! Since every transponder-equipped aircraft today
has TCAS, there'd have to be two pairs of previously dead pilots + a
stroke of awful luck for a midair collision to occur. After the advent
of TCAS, midairs are only a possibility in and around airports where
transponders are to be turned off


Emergency revocation of their tickets was hardly overkill.

Concur.

Ramapriya

In article
,
150flivver wrote:

On Oct 27, 10:42*pm, Mike Ash wrote:
In article ,
*brian whatcott wrote:

Mike Ash wrote:

It's the accent upon the 100+ miles that gets me.
In a car world 100+ miles -is- a long way.
In an airliner at 400 knots that's 15 minutes.

News companies are more interested in getting a story than actually
informing people. "150 miles" sounds scarier and gets more eyeballs than
"15 minutes", so that's what they print. It's sad, but I don't know how
to fix it.

Would you prefer the "out of contact with Air Traffic for One hour" slant?

Yes! That's the major problem behind what happened. The 150-mile
(15-minute?) overshoot is trivial by comparison. It *should* be the
focus of the headlines.

--
Mike Ash
Radio Free Earth
Broadcasting from our climate-controlled studios deep inside the Moon

This crew willfully endangered the lives of passengers by violating
company policy and Federal regulations. Flying in Class A airspace
without a clearance and without radio contact with the controllers
endangers not only the one airplane but every airplane that that one
airplane might collide with. Emergency revocation of their tickets
was hardly overkill.

Comparisons to drunk drivers getting off light are a poor analogy.
How many of those drunk drivers are commercial bus drivers and do they
retain their tickets? I doubt it. Professional pilots and
professional drivers are held to higher standard than their private
brethren.

Might want to read what you've quoted before you reply. My message says
nothing about ticket revocation or drunk drivers or anything of the
sort. I think you meant to aim this one at another thread, and another
poster.

--
Mike Ash
Radio Free Earth
Broadcasting from our climate-controlled studios deep inside the Moon

On Oct 28, 1:27 pm, Mike Ash wrote:
In article
,



150flivver wrote:
On Oct 27, 10:42 pm, Mike Ash wrote:
In article ,
brian whatcott wrote:

Mike Ash wrote:

It's the accent upon the 100+ miles that gets me.
In a car world 100+ miles -is- a long way.
In an airliner at 400 knots that's 15 minutes.

News companies are more interested in getting a story than actually
informing people. "150 miles" sounds scarier and gets more eyeballs than
"15 minutes", so that's what they print. It's sad, but I don't know how
to fix it.

Would you prefer the "out of contact with Air Traffic for One hour" slant?

Yes! That's the major problem behind what happened. The 150-mile
(15-minute?) overshoot is trivial by comparison. It *should* be the
focus of the headlines.

--
Mike Ash
Radio Free Earth
Broadcasting from our climate-controlled studios deep inside the Moon

This crew willfully endangered the lives of passengers by violating
company policy and Federal regulations. Flying in Class A airspace
without a clearance and without radio contact with the controllers
endangers not only the one airplane but every airplane that that one
airplane might collide with. Emergency revocation of their tickets
was hardly overkill.

Comparisons to drunk drivers getting off light are a poor analogy.
How many of those drunk drivers are commercial bus drivers and do they
retain their tickets? I doubt it. Professional pilots and
professional drivers are held to higher standard than their private
brethren.

Might want to read what you've quoted before you reply. My message says
nothing about ticket revocation or drunk drivers or anything of the
sort. I think you meant to aim this one at another thread, and another
poster.

In view of 9-11 what would NORAD's response be?
Would they have needed to scramble or do anything?
Ken

D Ramapriya wrote:
... Since every transponder-equipped aircraft today
has TCAS, there'd have to be two pairs of previously dead pilots + a
stroke of awful luck for a midair collision to occur. After the advent
of TCAS, midairs are only a possibility in and around airports where
transponders are to be turned off...
Ramapriya

Sadly, quite wrong. Transponders with Mode S can be helpful.
Then there's the [many, many] aircraft with Mode C only.

Brian W

On Oct 28, 4:57 pm, "Ken S. Tucker" wrote:
On Oct 28, 1:27 pm, Mike Ash wrote:



In article
,

150flivver wrote:
On Oct 27, 10:42 pm, Mike Ash wrote:
In article ,
brian whatcott wrote:

Mike Ash wrote:

It's the accent upon the 100+ miles that gets me.
In a car world 100+ miles -is- a long way.
In an airliner at 400 knots that's 15 minutes.

News companies are more interested in getting a story than actually
informing people. "150 miles" sounds scarier and gets more eyeballs than
"15 minutes", so that's what they print. It's sad, but I don't know how
to fix it.

Would you prefer the "out of contact with Air Traffic for One hour" slant?

Yes! That's the major problem behind what happened. The 150-mile
(15-minute?) overshoot is trivial by comparison. It *should* be the
focus of the headlines.

--
Mike Ash
Radio Free Earth
Broadcasting from our climate-controlled studios deep inside the Moon

This crew willfully endangered the lives of passengers by violating
company policy and Federal regulations. Flying in Class A airspace
without a clearance and without radio contact with the controllers
endangers not only the one airplane but every airplane that that one
airplane might collide with. Emergency revocation of their tickets
was hardly overkill.

Comparisons to drunk drivers getting off light are a poor analogy.
How many of those drunk drivers are commercial bus drivers and do they
retain their tickets? I doubt it. Professional pilots and
professional drivers are held to higher standard than their private
brethren.

Might want to read what you've quoted before you reply. My message says
nothing about ticket revocation or drunk drivers or anything of the
sort. I think you meant to aim this one at another thread, and another
poster.

In view of 9-11 what would NORAD's response be?
Would they have needed to scramble or do anything?
Ken

Ah, here's some more screw-up,
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB1256...DLTopStor ies
Ken
PS:Rumor is NORAD fighters were busy following kids flying
around in ballons.

On Oct 28, 3:27*pm, Mike Ash wrote:
In article

Might want to read what you've quoted before you reply. My message says
nothing about ticket revocation or drunk drivers or anything of the
sort. I think you meant to aim this one at another thread, and another
poster.

--
Mike Ash
Radio Free Earth
Broadcasting from our climate-controlled studios deep inside the Moon

You're right, in my second paragraph I was commenting on another
post. Sorry to imply it was you.