Airline Pilots Fly Past Airport at 20,000'

Is it possible that BOTH pilots fell asleep?


http://www.azcentral.com/news/articl...ingpilots.html
Airline pilots may have slept past their stop in Hawaii
Barbi Walker
The Arizona Republic
Feb. 20, 2008 04:59 PM

The Federal Aviation Administration is investigating whether two
airline pilots who flew past the airport in Hilo Hawaii by 15
miles last Wednesday were asleep.

Go! Airlines flight 1002 left from Honolulu and was expected to
land in Hilo around 10 a.m., but had to turn around after flying
past the airport. ...

A radar track of the flight provided by the Web site
www.flightaware.com shows the plane remained at 21,000 feet as it
flew past Hilo before returning to the airport.

Larry Dighera wrote:
Is it possible that BOTH pilots fell asleep?


http://www.azcentral.com/news/articl...ingpilots.html
Airline pilots may have slept past their stop in Hawaii


Hell, yes.



--
Mortimer Schnerd, RN
mschnerdatcarolina.rr.com

On Thu, 21 Feb 2008 00:01:49 -0500, "Mortimer Schnerd, RN"
mschnerdatcarolina.rr.com wrote in
:

Larry Dighera wrote:
Is it possible that BOTH pilots fell asleep?


http://www.azcentral.com/news/articl...ingpilots.html
Airline pilots may have slept past their stop in Hawaii


Hell, yes.


Does that mean that their CRM procedures tolerated one pilot asleep on
the job, or did they both fall asleep simultaneously?

On Feb 21, 10:55*pm, Larry Dighera wrote:
On Thu, 21 Feb 2008 00:01:49 -0500, "Mortimer Schnerd, RN"
mschnerdatcarolina.rr.com wrote in
:

Larry Dighera wrote:
Is it possible that BOTH pilots fell asleep?

http://www.azcentral.com/news/articl...ingpilots.html
* *Airline pilots may have slept past their stop in Hawaii

Hell, yes.

Does that mean that their CRM procedures tolerated one pilot asleep on
the job, or did they both fall asleep simultaneously?

The cockpit voice recorder shows they had just started a conversation
about MSFS and then it went quiet.

Cheers

WingFlaps wrote in news:34daaac1-d38b-44f3-bea6-
:

On Feb 21, 10:55*pm, Larry Dighera wrote:
On Thu, 21 Feb 2008 00:01:49 -0500, "Mortimer Schnerd, RN"
mschnerdatcarolina.rr.com wrote in
:

Larry Dighera wrote:
Is it possible that BOTH pilots fell asleep?

http://www.azcentral.com/news/articl...ingpilots.html
* *Airline pilots may have slept past their stop in Hawaii

Hell, yes.

Does that mean that their CRM procedures tolerated one pilot asleep on
the job, or did they both fall asleep simultaneously?

The cockpit voice recorder shows they had just started a conversation
about MSFS and then it went quiet.

Cheers

Maybe they got the BSD and had to wait for a reboot to resume flying!:-))

--
Marty Shapiro
Silicon Rallye Inc.

(remove SPAMNOT to email me)

Larry Dighera wrote:
http://www.azcentral.com/news/articl...ingpilots.html
Airline pilots may have slept past their stop in Hawaii


Hell, yes.


Does that mean that their CRM procedures tolerated one pilot asleep on
the job, or did they both fall asleep simultaneously?


Probably were both exhausted by a schedule that was marginally legal but ill
advised. I would imagine it was not through choice... the company probably
stuck them with it and gave them the choice of fly or quit.

It happens all the time. Believe me, those two weren't the only ones asleep at
the wheel that day. They just got caught.



--
Mortimer Schnerd, RN
mschnerdatcarolina.rr.com

On Thu, 21 Feb 2008 08:32:26 -0500, "Mortimer Schnerd, RN"
mschnerdatcarolina.rr.com wrote in
:

Larry Dighera wrote:
http://www.azcentral.com/news/articl...ingpilots.html
Airline pilots may have slept past their stop in Hawaii


Hell, yes.


Does that mean that their CRM procedures tolerated one pilot asleep on
the job, or did they both fall asleep simultaneously?


Probably were both exhausted by a schedule that was marginally legal but ill
advised.

Perhaps, but it was 0900 local.

I would imagine it was not through choice... the company probably
stuck them with it and gave them the choice of fly or quit.

It happens all the time. Believe me, those two weren't the only ones asleep at
the wheel that day. They just got caught.

Well, thankfully ATC kept calling them before they got out of range.

A little more info:

http://www.avweb.com/eletter/archive...ll.html#197200
even stranger than usual -- it was 9 o'clock in the
morning, and the flight was a 45-minute hop from Honolulu to Hilo.
Local TV station KGMB9
(http://kgmb9.com/main/content/view/4199/40/)
said it obtained a radar track of the flight, which showed it
stayed at 21,000 feet and flew past the Hilo airport about 15
miles out to sea before turning around and returning to descend.
Air traffic controllers reportedly tried to contact the pilots for
25 minutes and got no response.

Larry Dighera wrote:
Probably were both exhausted by a schedule that was marginally legal but ill
advised.

Perhaps, but it was 0900 local.



Once upon a time when I was a part 135 cargo pilot, I got a call from my
employer at around 0900 saying that I was needed to fly some auto parts from
Shelby, NC to Cleveland, OH. She said to start getting ready and she'd call me
back with the details in a half hour or so. Well, she called back about 15
minutes later saying the vendor didn't have enough of the parts to justify the
flight and so it was off.

That night, as I was getting ready for bed at 2330, I got another call from the
dispatcher saying the flight was on again, and that I was expected at Shelby for
a 0100 pickup. I needed to be at the Charlotte airport by about 1215 to make it
over to Shelby on time. So off I went.

Without boring you with the details, I fought some killer 60-70 knot headwinds
and ice on the way up there and ended up making an intermediate fuel stop at
Charleston, WV (after shooting the ILS), then into Cleveland with another ILS.

After taking on more fuel, I took off again into IMC but soon climbed on top and
settled in for a screaming cruise (now I had all that wind behind me). After
about an hour I switched to the inboard aux tanks.

I woke up when the right engine quit. As I reached over to change tanks and hit
the boost, the other engine quit as well. I remember marveling at how
accurately I'd leaned those engines. Anyway, the C-402 engines relit very
quickly and I was on my way again with no one the wiser. I promised God I would
never fall asleep flying again.

I broke that promise twice more on the remainder of the flight. I touched down
shortly after dawn at Charlotte.

Now, was my flight time in excess of the allowable. No. And my employer could
make the argument that my duty day didn't start until 2330. So what was
illegal? Nothing, I guess. But I sure was a whipped pup.

So the Hawaiian episode happened at 0900? I'd be very curious to see what
they'd been doing for the last 48 hours. And sitting at an airport waiting in
uniform doesn't constitute crew rest to me. Nor does the time spent in taxis.



--
Mortimer Schnerd, RN
mschnerdatcarolina.rr.com

Larry Dighera wrote:

A little more info:

http://www.avweb.com/eletter/archive...ll.html#197200
even stranger than usual -- it was 9 o'clock in the
morning, and the flight was a 45-minute hop from Honolulu to Hilo.
Local TV station KGMB9
(http://kgmb9.com/main/content/view/4199/40/)
said it obtained a radar track of the flight, which showed it
stayed at 21,000 feet and flew past the Hilo airport about 15
miles out to sea before turning around and returning to descend.
Air traffic controllers reportedly tried to contact the pilots for
25 minutes and got no response.

On the CVR: "Hey, Bob, c'mon,stop screwing around. I distinctly remember
it was *your* turn to set the new password on the autopilot this morning."

Larry Dighera writes:

Perhaps, but it was 0900 local.

The world of airlines has little connection to local time. Pilots can be
tired at any time of day.

http://www.avweb.com/eletter/archive...ll.html#197200
even stranger than usual -- it was 9 o'clock in the
morning, and the flight was a 45-minute hop from Honolulu to Hilo.

They could still be too tired to stay awake, depending on what happened prior
to that flight.