Transponder Landing System

One airport I frequently use in the northeast has adopted an improvement plan
which includes, along with a slight runway extension, the installation of a
Transponder Landing System. The airport is currently served by a VOR approach
and a GPS approach, but terrain considerations would almost certainly
preclude commissioning of an ILS there.

I am instrument rated, and I had never heard of a TLS approach. It is not
even mentioned in any of my textbooks, going back over the past 20 years. It
is not mentioned in the FAA Instrument Flying Handbook. In my instrument
training we had to be at least basically familiar with types of approaches we
never expect to encounter, like MLS, and describe principles of GCA’s,
ILS-PRM and SDF’s, and of course we had to fly every type of real-world
approach, from NDB up to LPV’s but never have I heard of a TLS.

I do find internet references to the TLS, developed by ANPC Corporation, of
Hood River, OR. Most of these references date from the early 2000’s, but some
are more recent. A Wikipedia article from 2005 treats it as a standard type
of approach, just as if they were talking about an ILS. The same article
however states that WAAS and LAAS have failed to garner widespread
acceptance.

So my question - does this type of approach really exist, other than on
Wikipedia? Can someone point me to an approach plate that says "TLS" on the
top? What would lead a purportedly expert consultant to recommend this type
of approach for installation in a New England airport today?

In article ,
VOR-DME wrote:

So my question - does this type of approach really exist, other than on
Wikipedia? Can someone point me to an approach plate that says "TLS" on the
top? What would lead a purportedly expert consultant to recommend this type
of approach for installation in a New England airport today?


I checked the rec.aviation archives, since the topic has come up here
before, and every airport mentioned in the various threads doesn't
have any approaches with "TLS" in the title now. The airports
mentioned (Minden,NV; Watertown, WI; Madras, OR) all have GPS and/or
VOD/DME approaches now. In other searches, Subic Bay and Santa
Cruz, Brazil have come up as having TLS approaches, but I can't
find any plates online for those airports.

TLS is an interesting technical solution to the need for non-straight
instrument approaches without needing new equipment on the plane,
but it seems GPS approaches have replaced TLS approaches since most
planes flying IFR have GPS these days.

As for why an 'expert' would recomend a TLS approach over a GPS
approach, I wonder what the exports connection to ANPC is?

John
--
John Clear - http://www.clear-prop.org/

VOR-DME wrote:

So my question - does this type of approach really exist, other than on
Wikipedia? Can someone point me to an approach plate that says "TLS" on the
top? What would lead a purportedly expert consultant to recommend this type
of approach for installation in a New England airport today?


I used to fly out of Hood River from about '96 to '08 so am somewhat
familar with the system.

At that time ANPC was trying to get it set up for various airports, but
ran into big problems with the FAA approving it. They had more success
getting the military to use it as it was somewhat portable. They also
were able to set up a few of the systems outside of the US, but I
couldn't tell you where.


They did have it set up as a test at The Dalles (KDLS) airport near
Hood River. I am probably one of the few civilian pilots in the US
who has flown this type of approach, albeit in VFR conditions. If
I remember correctly, the KDLS approach was fairly simple. It look
an lot like a DME arc followed by a straight in to runway 25, but with
a glide slope the whole way. That was the neat thing about the system:
it allowed for a non-straight approach while still giving a glide slope.
The downside of it (at least for the test setup at KDLS), was that only
one aircraft at a time could use it.

As for your questions, I do not know of a current TLS approach. I dug
through my digital clutter to try and find the test approach plate for
DLS and came up dry. As far as a consultant recommending such an
approach, well, he's going to get paid if it exists or not...

Curiously, I just notied that KDLS now has a LDA/DME approach on runway
25. I've never seen one of those before.

--
Frank Stutzman
Bonanza N494B "Hula Girl"
Boise, ID

I found this note (june 2007) related to the Watertown installation:

---
Well, I just happened to go to RYV to eat dinner at Steakfire tonight,
and Jeff Baum (Pres. of Wisconsin Aviation) happened to be working
late. Unfortunately, he said that the TLS was taken down about a month ago.

He said that the plate was available from Wisconsin Aviation. He also
said the FAA didn't like the TLS because it wasn't their idea, and for
a time actually tried to prohibit people from flying it even VFR! This
particular installation was paid for by the Wisconsin Department of
Aeronautics.

The other neat thing about it was that it had a curved final approach
path, which you can do when the "localizer" isn't just a radio beam.

Oh well... Another good idea bites the dust.
---

The approach is listing in the AIM, but the only other airport I could
find in the US that had it was in Idaho and they took it down as well
after they couldn't find a "sponser".


John Clear wrote:
In article ,
VOR-DME wrote:

So my question - does this type of approach really exist, other than on
Wikipedia? Can someone point me to an approach plate that says "TLS" on the
top? What would lead a purportedly expert consultant to recommend this type
of approach for installation in a New England airport today?


I checked the rec.aviation archives, since the topic has come up here
before, and every airport mentioned in the various threads doesn't
have any approaches with "TLS" in the title now. The airports
mentioned (Minden,NV; Watertown, WI; Madras, OR) all have GPS and/or
VOD/DME approaches now. In other searches, Subic Bay and Santa
Cruz, Brazil have come up as having TLS approaches, but I can't
find any plates online for those airports.

TLS is an interesting technical solution to the need for non-straight
instrument approaches without needing new equipment on the plane,
but it seems GPS approaches have replaced TLS approaches since most
planes flying IFR have GPS these days.

As for why an 'expert' would recomend a TLS approach over a GPS
approach, I wonder what the exports connection to ANPC is?

John
--
John Clear - http://www.clear-prop.org/


--
Don Poitras

I flew the one at Watertown WI, a few times. It worked OK. Remember,
it's
strictly one at a time.

It's hard to imagine that a LNAV+V wouldn't be at least as good.

Bill Hale
BPPP instructor

On Oct 24, 4:30*am, VOR-DME wrote:
One airport I frequently use in the northeast has adopted an improvement plan
which includes, along with a slight runway extension, the installation of a
Transponder Landing System. The airport is currently served by a VOR approach
and a GPS approach, but terrain considerations would almost certainly
preclude commissioning of an ILS there.

I am instrument rated, and I had never heard of a TLS approach. It is not
even mentioned in any of my textbooks, going back over the past 20 years. It
is not mentioned in the FAA Instrument Flying Handbook. In my instrument
training we had to be at least basically familiar with types of approaches we
never expect to encounter, like MLS, and describe principles of GCA’s,
ILS-PRM and SDF’s, and of course we had to fly every type of real-world
approach, from NDB up to LPV’s but never have I heard of a TLS.

I do find internet references to the TLS, developed by ANPC Corporation, of
Hood River, OR. Most of these references date from the early 2000’s, but some
are more recent. *A Wikipedia article from 2005 treats it as a standard type
of approach, just as if they were talking about an ILS. The same article
however states that WAAS and LAAS have failed to garner widespread
acceptance.

So my question - does this type of approach really exist, other than on
Wikipedia? Can someone point me to an approach plate that says "TLS" on the
top? What would lead a purportedly expert consultant to recommend this type
of approach for installation in a New England airport today?

On 10/24/2010 5:30 AM, VOR-DME wrote:
One airport I frequently use in the northeast has adopted an improvement plan
which includes, along with a slight runway extension, the installation of a
Transponder Landing System. The airport is currently served by a VOR approach
and a GPS approach, but terrain considerations would almost certainly
preclude commissioning of an ILS there.

I am instrument rated, and I had never heard of a TLS approach. It is not
even mentioned in any of my textbooks, going back over the past 20 years. It
is not mentioned in the FAA Instrument Flying Handbook. In my instrument
training we had to be at least basically familiar with types of approaches we
never expect to encounter, like MLS, and describe principles of GCA’s,
ILS-PRM and SDF’s, and of course we had to fly every type of real-world
approach, from NDB up to LPV’s but never have I heard of a TLS.

I do find internet references to the TLS, developed by ANPC Corporation, of
Hood River, OR. Most of these references date from the early 2000’s, but some
are more recent. A Wikipedia article from 2005 treats it as a standard type
of approach, just as if they were talking about an ILS. The same article
however states that WAAS and LAAS have failed to garner widespread
acceptance.

So my question - does this type of approach really exist, other than on
Wikipedia? Can someone point me to an approach plate that says "TLS" on the
top? What would lead a purportedly expert consultant to recommend this type
of approach for installation in a New England airport today?


Interesting approach. Another DARPA program that may be hitting paydirt.
On the downside: it drives ILS indicators or if you will, an ADI.
So it pushes VHF and UHF loc and glideslope signals - but not in a
straightline, necessarily, and in mountainous regions where you couldn't
produce a straight ILS beam if you tried - but TLS can.

I can see why MLS development ground to an instant halt after about 12
installations - GPS and now TLS can do the job better and cheaper.
Though I haven't personally got a glideslope indicator - even I can see
the Sporty ads for a handheld LOC/GS display - and that's not out of reach.

I like the idea of an array listening to your transponder responses and
computing 3-D locations of one aircraft at a time, on the fly, to drive
your LOC/GS display appropriately.

The most fundamental argument against, is that its ground-based - and
that's something the licensing authorities are backing away from, any
more. The maintenance cost must be a factor there.

Still, this device is comparatively cheap compared with ILS and MLS
certainly, so it's worth a shot. I bet there are very, very few
airfields with this device available - UPS and/or FedEx are prime
candidates for pioneering it into backcountry strips no doubt.

Thanks for sharing

Brian W

Im getting ready to make my first set of purchases for an A-10C pit. Does anyone know anwhere I can find a standalone Landing Gear switch that would be passable for an A-10 switch? The only ones Ive been able to find are for a 737 and Airbus style.
к стате есть хороший материал . ИТ-технологии

Другая программа, которую рекомендует v7em.com– Это Internet Explorer – так же чрезвычайно популярный браузер, его финальная, т.е. окончательная версия. Получается, надо понимать так, что это само совершенство и придумать что-то лучше не представляется вероятным. Недаром вездесущая Microsoft которая хочет проникнуть и быть в курсе на все процессы происходящие в мире и во все интересное в софт-мире, рекомендует всем пользователям поскорее скачать свое творение на их компьютеры . А куда денемся?!
Программой месяца стала LanAgent Она предназначена для тех случаев, когда важно наблюдать за тем, как ведут себя пользователи в локальной сети. Особенно она нужна боссам. Боссы обязаны знать, чем это занимаются сотрудники предприятия. Вдруг, вместо того, чтобы писать отчеты и изучать ситуацию на рынке, бездельничают Такие программы хороши тем, что дает шанс рационально использовать время организации.

В других разделах тоже самое. И там, и там, везде можно найти лейбл от v7em.com. Мол: «Рекомендуем!». И, кроме того, совет, как скачать программы, без которых жить нельзя, можно, нужно и должно прислушиваться.

Approaches with similar functionality are RNP approaches.
You'll need an FMS system coupled with GPS (or WAAS+GPS receiver) as a
sensor, and special training to fly those.
They have exactly that stuff, arbitrary curved and straight segments,
with a GS calculated all the way in.
Most aircraft able of flying RNP approaches are jets, typically
regional jets and 737 sized jets.
So far I couldn't understand for sure why an WAAS receiver can't be
programmed to guide RNP approaches.
Perhaps the lag that GPS has with turns. The Kalman filter causes
that. For those curved segments.
What is necessary is incorporating an inertial receiver into WAAS/GPS
receivers so it can pick up turns with less lag.
Non RNP RNAV approaches don't have turns that are very close to
terrain ahead or lateral. Lookup RNP approaches into places like Palm
Springs-CA and you will see how critical some turns are on RNAV
approaches.

Marcelo Pacheco