Nice article on soaring on EAA web site

http://www.eaa.org/lightplaneworld/a...iderflight.asp

On Feb 10, 6:32*pm, "Paul Remde" wrote:
http://www.eaa.org/lightplaneworld/a...iderflight.asp

Nice article.

But, arggh, a soft release in a Grob? With a Tost tow hook? Really?

Just curious, is this a US only aberration or is this dangerous
practice used in other countries?

Kirk
Grumpy in snowy Illinois

On Feb 11, 10:51*am, 66 wrote:
On Feb 10, 6:32*pm, "Paul Remde" wrote:

http://www.eaa.org/lightplaneworld/a...iderflight.asp

Nice article.

But, arggh, a soft release in a Grob? With a Tost tow hook? Really?

Just curious, is this a US only aberration or is this dangerous
practice used in other countries?

Kirk
Grumpy in snowy Illinois

The PTS says "normal towline tension" This is the way I was taught,
and the way I teach. Every tow pilot I have ever asked said they
would prefer normal tension release. Every textbook I can remember
reading says normal tension. I cannot think of one good reason for a
"soft release" and many possible problems with it. I have no idea
where this concept came from, and why it is still use/taught in some
places. It is funny how bad ideas seem to "stick"...... When I do
check rides for pilots I don't know, I usually say "Now you're not
going to do a "soft release" are you?" Sometimes I forget and they
really scare the crap out of me when they suddenly pull up and then
dive!!!

There is a movement to standardize soaring instruction and
procedures.......He is an area which needs attention!


Cookie

In article
,
" wrote:

On Feb 11, 10:51*am, 66 wrote:
On Feb 10, 6:32*pm, "Paul Remde" wrote:

http://www.eaa.org/lightplaneworld/a...iderflight.asp

Nice article.

But, arggh, a soft release in a Grob? With a Tost tow hook? Really?

Just curious, is this a US only aberration or is this dangerous
practice used in other countries?

Kirk
Grumpy in snowy Illinois

The PTS says "normal towline tension" This is the way I was taught,
and the way I teach. Every tow pilot I have ever asked said they
would prefer normal tension release. Every textbook I can remember
reading says normal tension. I cannot think of one good reason for a
"soft release" and many possible problems with it. I have no idea
where this concept came from, and why it is still use/taught in some
places. It is funny how bad ideas seem to "stick"...... When I do
check rides for pilots I don't know, I usually say "Now you're not
going to do a "soft release" are you?" Sometimes I forget and they
really scare the crap out of me when they suddenly pull up and then
dive!!!

There is a movement to standardize soaring instruction and
procedures.......He is an area which needs attention!


Cookie


Soft release is an old-time Schweizer thing. The Schweizer 2-33 frame
has a small cross member just in front of the tow release that gets hit
by the tow release arm when the rope is released under tension.
Eventually, the little cross member cracks. This lets in moisture and
then you get corrosion. The soft release was an attempt to prevent that.
People were taught to do this by old-time Schweizer instructors but were
never told why. The practice took on a life of it's own and persists.

On Feb 11, 3:32*pm, Berry wrote:
In article
,





" wrote:
On Feb 11, 10:51*am, 66 wrote:
On Feb 10, 6:32*pm, "Paul Remde" wrote:

http://www.eaa.org/lightplaneworld/a...iderflight.asp

Nice article.

But, arggh, a soft release in a Grob? With a Tost tow hook? Really?

Just curious, is this a US only aberration or is this dangerous
practice used in other countries?

Kirk
Grumpy in snowy Illinois

The PTS says "normal towline tension" *This is the way I was taught,
and the way I teach. *Every tow pilot I have ever asked said they
would prefer normal tension release. *Every textbook I can remember
reading says normal tension. I cannot think of *one good reason for a
"soft release" and many possible problems with it. *I have no idea
where this concept came from, and why it is still use/taught in some
places. *It is funny how bad ideas seem to "stick"...... *When I do
check rides for pilots I don't know, I usually say "Now you're not
going to do a "soft release" are you?" * Sometimes I forget and they
really scare the crap out of me when they suddenly pull up and then
dive!!!

There is a movement to standardize soaring instruction and
procedures.......He is an area which needs attention!

Cookie

Soft release is an old-time Schweizer thing. The Schweizer 2-33 frame
has a small cross member just in front of the tow release that gets hit
by the tow release arm when the rope is released under tension.
Eventually, the little cross member cracks. This lets in moisture and
then you get corrosion. The soft release was an attempt to prevent that.
People were taught to do this by old-time Schweizer instructors but were
never told why. The practice took on a life of it's own and persists.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

I have seen this cracking problem with Schweizers....I have also seen
Schweizers with a little rubber bumper pad installed where the hook
swings up, so it bounces off without causing any damage. I do not
know if this was "original equipment"

I have also seen a few Schweizers where the tow hook has gotten
"stiff" and will not open by gravity alone. It would be possible to
pull the release, with no tension on the rope, and have the rear part
of the mech. just go back in place with no release! At least with
"normal" tension on the rope, you are sure to release. (Yeah, the
stiff hook shoudl be repaired/adjusted).

I think the soft release deal is sort of fixing a small problem by
creating a big problem.

Cookie

Exactly. A certain soaring site in Arizona, which flew both G103's
and 2-33's insisted on "soft releases" in either, I guess
standardizing the process for the towpilots. This was 20 years ago -
The last time I visited to rent, there was no mention of this during
the check ride.

--Sarah


On Feb 11, 2:32*pm, Berry wrote:
In article
,



" wrote:
On Feb 11, 10:51*am, 66 wrote:
On Feb 10, 6:32*pm, "Paul Remde" wrote:

http://www.eaa.org/lightplaneworld/a...iderflight.asp

Nice article.

But, arggh, a soft release in a Grob? With a Tost tow hook? Really?

Just curious, is this a US only aberration or is this dangerous
practice used in other countries?

Kirk
Grumpy in snowy Illinois

The PTS says "normal towline tension" *This is the way I was taught,
and the way I teach. *Every tow pilot I have ever asked said they
would prefer normal tension release. *Every textbook I can remember
reading says normal tension. I cannot think of *one good reason for a
"soft release" and many possible problems with it. *I have no idea
where this concept came from, and why it is still use/taught in some
places. *It is funny how bad ideas seem to "stick"...... *When I do
check rides for pilots I don't know, I usually say "Now you're not
going to do a "soft release" are you?" * Sometimes I forget and they
really scare the crap out of me when they suddenly pull up and then
dive!!!

There is a movement to standardize soaring instruction and
procedures.......He is an area which needs attention!

Cookie

Soft release is an old-time Schweizer thing. The Schweizer 2-33 frame
has a small cross member just in front of the tow release that gets hit
by the tow release arm when the rope is released under tension.
Eventually, the little cross member cracks. This lets in moisture and
then you get corrosion. The soft release was an attempt to prevent that.
People were taught to do this by old-time Schweizer instructors but were
never told why. The practice took on a life of it's own and persists.

On Feb 12, 5:04*pm, Sarah wrote:
Exactly. *A certain soaring site in Arizona, which flew both G103's
and 2-33's insisted on "soft releases" in either, I guess
standardizing the process for the towpilots. *This was 20 years ago -
The last time I visited to rent, there was no mention of this during
the check ride.

--Sarah

I think I saw some mention of this in info on that gliderport's
website. The last check ride where I had somebody do that, a hard
pull up followed by a big dive, then release..the guy said he learned
it at that place too. When I asked him "why" they do that, he had no
answer, just "that's they way they told me".

What is the "plus" of soft release as far as tow pilot is concerned?

BTW....I searched the "soft release" on the Internet, and found one
textbook which has a section on "soft release" I do not know what the
book actually says about the soft release, but there is a section
about it.....Hopefully it says the soft release is a bad idea. I also
found some reports from a Soaring Safety Foundation meeting, where all
agreed on the "normal tension" release, and recommended a rubber
bumper be installed in the tow hook of the SGS-2-33.

One of my favorite textbooks is "Beginning Gliding" by Derek
Piggott.....He has a couple of paragraphs about relaese for aero tow.
He warns of the dangers of diving before release, as well as the
problems of trying to release under "increased" tension.

Are people confuing release technique for winch launch and aerotow
launch??

Cookie

Cookie

At 04:30 13 February 2011, wrote:

What is the "plus" of soft release as far as tow pilot is concerned?

The only thing I can imagine is that a soft release is less likely to put
a knot in the towrope. Mostly I've heard tow pilots say they'd rather
be able to feel the release. I try to avoid releasing at a moment when
the rope has extra tension in it, but generally release with a normal load
on the rope.

Jim Beckman

On Feb 13, 8:31*am, Jim Beckman wrote:
At 04:30 13 February 2011, wrote:



What is the "plus" of soft release as far as tow pilot is concerned?

The only thing I can imagine is that a soft release is less likely to put
a knot in the towrope. *Mostly I've heard tow pilots say they'd rather
be able to feel the release. *I try to avoid releasing at a moment when
the rope has extra tension in it, but generally release with a normal load
on the rope.

Jim Beckman

Hi Jim,

The "knot in the tow rope" is an arguement I have heard for the soft
release. But in reality, a "normal tension" release will usually not
put a knot in the tow rope. The normal tension is really not all that
much tension. Release under "extra" tension tends to knot the rope
more often.

Now knots in the tow rope is a problem in itself. If you spend the
whole day on the flight line, you will find some days there are no
knots at all, and sometimes quite a few. It is just one of those
things. Some knots form after release, and some form as the tow plane
is landing, dragging the rope on the ground.

But... the solution to knots in the rope is to inspect the rope each
flight, and remove the knot. A knot formed during release or during
landing is easy to untie. The problem comes when nobody sees the
loose knot, and then does another tow! Now the knot is almost
impossible to remove, and has most likely weakened the rope.

The solution to knots in the rope is not some cockamamie wierd
dangerous release "pull up and dive" deal!

Cookie

This soft release deal seems to be a lot more common than I thought!
Searching the Internet brings up some interesting stuff. Here is
something form a SOP manual for a glider club:

Soft Release Procedures
A soft release, or low-tension release, is standard operating
procedure at . We do this to prevent damage to the fuselage structure
and excess wear of the Schweizer tow hook which can occur after
repeated high-tension releases. A soft release is performed in all of
our aircraft for standardization. As an added bonus this type of
procedure also all but eliminates harmful knots forming in the towline
after release and alerts the tow pilot that you are about to release.
The purpose is to relieve some of the tension on the towline, not put
a lot of slack in the line. When a “bow” begins to form in the
towline, the tension has been reduced enough to release.

To perform a soft release:
1) HOLD the release handle with your left hand.
2) REPOSITION slowly to just beyond the right wing of the towplane.
This is done to enable the glider pilot to continuously view the
towplane during the following steps, and ensure rapid and visible
separation from the towline after release.
3) Initiate a BRISK CLIMB until the towplane appears about 10 degrees
below the horizon.
This climb must be rapid enough to accelerate the glider. This speed
difference relative to the towplane is what will create the slack you
want.
4) PITCH OVER to stop the climb BUT NOT ENOUGH TO DECEND.
5) Once a “bow” forms in the towline forms, RELEASE.
At this time the glider should be level with the towplane or slightly
above. With proper slack in the line you should here little to zero
noise when releasing the rope.
6) After release, TURN RIGHT to clear the towplane and rope.
*** Never dive to accelerate the glider. This is not as effective as
climbing and may cause you to fly below the towplane