F15E's trounced by Eurofighters

"Rick Folkers" wrote:

Correct me if I am wrong but I thought that the Brits made the decision to
save
money and not fit the 27MM mauser in the Typhoon. Wonder what they shot
the 15's with? did they have cameras?

They squirted them with BSE-foam, and then went into a paroxysm of
maniacal laughter and frenzied mutual high-fiving.

Grantland

"John Cook" wrote:
On Fri, 27 Feb 2004 22:01:09 -0600, "Rick Folkers"
wrote:

Correct me if I am wrong but I thought that the Brits made the decision
to
save
money and not fit the 27MM mauser in the Typhoon. Wonder what they shot
the 15's with? did they have cameras?

The first 55 RAF Typhoons will have the Cannon,

Only as ballast based on the current Government requirements.

The next tranches for
the RAF may have it, officially its been dropped!!, but some people
in the know seem to think differently.....

As ballast based on the current Government requirements.

Wait for the tranche 2 negotiations to conclude within (if the
present rumours are true) the next 3-6 months.

It will probably still be ballast because it will still be too expensive to
actually remove it from the design.

Ed Rasimus wrote:

On Fri, 27 Feb 2004 21:36:33 +1100, John Cook
wrote:

"The New Air Superiority Benchmark
[snip]

[snip]
In other words, the entire report is pathetically bogus and written by
someone without the first clue of air/air engagement or training.

I'm not demeaning either the Eurofighter or the RAF, but there is no
reasonable conclusion to be drawn from this report regarding
superiority of the one or demise of the other.

Actually, the conclusion is quite simple. This is a report
that has been mislaid since December 1942.

The "fight" occurred when rowdy, young USAAF pilots, flying
their P-47 Thunderbolts were feeling their oats and bounced
some RAF Spitfires.

It was pretty clear that the P-47, and the 8th AF in general,
wasn't going to amount to much.


SMH

The comments are reportedly from Archie Neill (One of the BAE pilots
who instructs the Case White RAF pilots)

I don't want to disparage Mr. Neill, however, it would be in his own interest
for this incident to have occured no?

I still doubt there's any truth to it and my opinion isn't based on anything
more than my belief that the 4 F-15E crewmembers would not have been acting so
dangerously in willful disregard of regulations.




BUFDRVR

"Stay on the bomb run boys, I'm gonna get those bomb doors open if it harelips
everyone on Bear Creek"

On Sat, 28 Feb 2004 13:50:10 +1100, John Cook
wrote:

snipped petty sniping and name calling

Hey boys!!!! how about a cease fire, I'm sure your both right!!.

so if you just want to call each other names, or question each others
sexualality/virility/intellegence/expertise/(insert any measure of
ones worth)... Can you please email each other with the lovey dovey
stuff..

Go on.... try behaving like adults just for a while.... you might get
to like it, and the rest of us will not have to wade through several
dozen post with **** poor one line insults..

Thanks in anticipation

Are you saying you've never had to deal with Tarver?

"Scott Ferrin" wrote in message
...

Are you saying you've never had to deal with Tarver?

No, he is doing the same thing I am in asking trolls like yourself to cease
your childishness. The cut and paste trolls have already reformed. I know
you won't do it for me, but think of the talent ram could draw without your
participation, Ferrin.

Or Jeff Ethell reporting how the Chilean Air Force beat a US Navy
carrier group 56-20. You need to know the ROE and the purpose of the
exercise before drawing too many conclusions.


The Chileans F-16s are very formidable fighters, especially in a knifefight.

Well depending on how recent that was, the Chileans might have had their F-16C,
helmet mounted sight, Python4 AAM, and it makes it prettty frustrating at the
merge, when all the Chilean pilot has to do it look at you, and you can
consider yourself "morted"


Ron
Tanker 65, C-54E (DC-4)

On Sat, 28 Feb 2004 09:58:02 -0800, "Tarver Engineering"
wrote:


"Scott Ferrin" wrote in message
.. .

Are you saying you've never had to deal with Tarver?

No, he is doing the same thing I am in asking trolls like yourself to cease
your childishness. The cut and paste trolls have already reformed. I know
you won't do it for me, but think of the talent ram could draw without your
participation, Ferrin.


That's the pot calling the kettle black.

"Scott Ferrin" wrote in message
...
On Sat, 28 Feb 2004 09:58:02 -0800, "Tarver Engineering"
wrote:


"Scott Ferrin" wrote in message
.. .

Are you saying you've never had to deal with Tarver?

No, he is doing the same thing I am in asking trolls like yourself to
cease
your childishness. The cut and paste trolls have already reformed. I
know
you won't do it for me, but think of the talent ram could draw without
your
participation, Ferrin.


That's the pot calling the kettle black.

I am an aircraft systems engineer with a body of work that is widely tabbed
to in aviation.

What do you bring to ram, Ferrin? Reform, or get out.

"Mike Zaharis" wrote in message
...


John Cook wrote:

Hi all

Just saw this and it peaked my interest..

"The New Air Superiority Benchmark

Thursday the 19th of February 2004 will mark the day when the
undisputed king of air superiority had to surrender its thirty-year
crown to a newcomer. It happened over the skies of Windermere, in the
scenic English Lake District. Two Eurofighter Typhoon twin-seaters
were on the first RAF formation training flight from Warton Aerodrome
when they were bounced from the eight o'clock by a couple of F-15Es
belonging to the USAFE's 48th TFW, probably the most formidable and
experienced combat unit in the European theatre. The Typhoon crew did
not seem to be intimidated and with two rapid counters ended up on the
F-15 tail, comfortably gunning the trailing one, who was in full
afterburner, wings rocking and wondering what had happened.

It is fair to expect that the most surprised by this first encounter
result would be the F15 crew, used to dominate the skies since the
mid-seventies and with an exchange ratio record of 101 wins to zero
losses, and a bunch of die-hard Eurofighter critics without much
knowledge of the new fighter air combat capabilities. It is
understandable if the RAF rookies would also show their surprise at
the outcome, as one does not expect to win an air engagement on the
first training sortie with a brand new machine against one of the best
combat units in the world, riding what up to now has been the best
fighter in history.

But that is history now!

Those definitely not surprised by what the events over the Lake
District skies signify are the top echelon in the Air Combat Command,
the Chief of Staff and the RAND Corp. analysts and boffins. They have
been saying for years that the F-15 is no match to the new generation
of European fighters and even to the Su-35 Flanker. They know what
they say: their operational analyses studies and other simulated
evaluations-as indeed have ours, both at the industry and government
level-have shown that the F-15 is unable to gain air superiority
against Eurofighter Typhoon. Now they have the first real indication
that their worries were not unjustified and that the F/A-22 was the
right choice, if they want to maintain the air superiority also in the
future."


http://users.boardnation.com/~warpla...y;threadid=445

Cheers

Usually, F-15E's carry Conformal Fuel Tanks (CFTs). These are not often
removed, as it's
a hassle, and for Strike Eagle missions, the range/weapons carriage is
worth more than
the loss in maneuverability. These would have seriously compromised the
ACM capabilities
of the F-15Es in the incident discussed.

This is not to say that the Eurofighter does or does not have an advantage
over the F-15E
in ACM, just that this incident tells one very little, without knowing how
the aircraft
were outfitted.

Does anyone know if the F-15Es in this scenario were carrying CFTs?


Yes. ALL F-15Es from the 48th FW at Lakenheath carry CFTs. If they were in
the Lake District, then they also had external fuel tanks. Hardly a BFM/ACM
configuration.

Wake me when they do a planned training sortie with the C models from
Lakenheath.