Don Brown and lat-long

Hmmmm...we use DUATS to file all the time, and have never observed this. Can
you give more details? Were you using duats on the web or through a different
program? What format did you use to enter the VOR radial/distance?

Thanks!
Sydney

PS what the people who wrote DUATS prefer, and what ATC prefers, are not
necessarily the same thing. you might *think* the former would talk to the
latter -- but don't count on it



Here is the route that we file about 1 x week every monday morning. On
www.enflight.com we use the "user selected routing", and insert a route
selection of FXE ARKES PHK *J CRG *G LBE. Enflight.com output is like this:

Flight Plan FXE - LBE
From: FXE -- Fort Lauderdale FL (Fort Lauderdale Executive)
To: LBE -- Latrobe PA (Arnold Palmer Regional)
Alt.: FL290
Time: Wed Sep 24 04:22 (UTC)

Routing options selected: Automatic jet route, Great circle.
Flight plan route:
ARKES PHK J53 CRG SSI090004 SVN270003 EDS270002 MMT CTF270019 CLT090020
GSO270019 PSK120028 ROA270001 LWB120020 EKN120018 MGW120013 IHD300006
Flight totals: fuel: 172 gallons, time: 3:26, distance 869.7 nm.

Ident Type/Morse Code | | Fuel
Name or Fix/radial/dist | | Time
Latitude Longitude Alt. | Route Mag KTS Fuel | Dist
---+--------+---------+-----| Winds Crs TAS Time |------
1. FXE Apt. | Temp Hdg GS Dist | 0.0
Fort Lauderdale FL (For |--------+----+---+------| 0:00
26:11.84 80:10.24 0 | Direct 11.1 | 870
---+--------+---------+-----| 050/4 333 166 0:10 |------
2. ARKES Int. | +1 C 334 165 27 | 11.1
PBIr254 VKZr348/51 |--------+----+---+------| 0:10
26:34.63 80:25.06 146 | Direct 6.3 | 843
---+--------+---------+-----| 312/8 313 185 0:06 |------
3. PHK .--. .... -.- | -12C 313 177 19 | 17.4
d115.4 Pahokee |--------+----+---+------| 0:16
26:46.96 80:41.49 245 | J53 14.9 | 824
---+--------+---------+-----| 310/19 345 257 0:17 |------
4. OHENU Int. | -22C 343 241 68 | 32.3
|--------+----+---+------| 0:33
27:51.99 81:05.27 290 | J53 8.4 | 756
---+--------+---------+-----| 310/25 345 264 0:11 |------
5. ORL --- .-. .-.. | -28C 342 243 43 | 40.7
d112.2 Orlando |--------+----+---+------| 0:44
28:32.56 81:20.10 290 | J53 9.3 | 713
---+--------+---------+-----| 316/31 358 264 0:11 |------
6. BARBS Int. | -28C 354 239 46 | 50.0
OMNr271 ORLr355/46 |--------+----+---+------| 0:55
29:18.45 81:24.52 290 | J53 5.4 | 667
---+--------+---------+-----| 305/28 358 264 0:07 |------
7. MATEO Int. | -28C 354 245 28 | 55.4
CRGr178/34 GNVr088 |--------+----+---+------| 1:02
29:46.01 81:27.21 290 | J53 6.8 | 639
---+--------+---------+-----| 300/34 358 264 0:08 |------
8. CRG -.-. .-. --. | -30C 352 243 34 | 62.2
d114.5 Craig |--------+----+---+------| 1:10
30:20.33 81:30.60 290 | Direct 8.3 | 605
---+--------+---------+-----| 300/34 012 264 0:11 |------
9. Wpt. 109.8/090.0/003.7 | -30C 005 250 43 | 70.5
SSI ... ... .. |--------+----+---+------| 1:21
31:03.29 81:22.47 290 | Direct 10.9 | 562
---+--------+---------+-----| 292/31 013 264 0:14 |------
10. Wpt. 111.6/270.0/002.5 | -31C 007 255 59 | 81.4
SVN ... ...- -. |--------+----+---+------| 1:35
32:00.63 81:11.41 290 | Direct 15.8 | 503
---+--------+---------+-----| 270/29 011 264 0:19 |------
11. Wpt. 111.4/270.0/002.3 | -32C 005 267 87 | 97.2
EDS . -.. ... |--------+----+---+------| 1:54
33:27.14 80:54.29 290 | Direct 5.2 | 416
---+--------+---------+-----| 272/12 015 264 0:07 |------
12. MMT -- -- - | -35C 012 265 29 |102.4
d113.2 Mc Entire |--------+----+---+------| 2:01
33:55.42 80:48.57 290 | Direct 7.8 | 387
---+--------+---------+-----| 281/10 015 264 0:10 |------
13. Wpt. 108.2/270.0/019.2 | -35C 012 264 43 |110.2
CTF -.-. - ..-. |--------+----+---+------| 2:11
34:37.98 80:39.83 290 | Direct 6.5 | 344
---+--------+---------+-----| 272/12 013 264 0:08 |------
14. Wpt. 115.0/090.0/020.2 | -35C 010 265 36 |116.7
CLT -.-. .-.. - |--------+----+---+------| 2:19
35:13.13 80:32.51 290 | Direct 9.0 | 308
---+--------+---------+-----| 291/10 015 264 0:11 |------
15. Wpt. 116.2/270.0/019.1 | -35C 013 262 49 |125.7
GSO --. ... --- |--------+----+---+------| 2:30
36:01.70 80:22.20 290 | Direct 9.7 | 259
---+--------+---------+-----| 281/18 013 264 0:12 |------
16. Wpt. 116.8/120.0/027.9 | -35C 009 263 53 |135.4
PSK .--. ... -.- |--------+----+---+------| 2:42
36:53.84 80:10.90 290 | Direct 4.9 | 206
---+--------+---------+-----| 270/23 016 264 0:06 |------
17. Wpt. 109.4/270.0/000.6 | -35C 011 267 27 |140.3
ROA .-. --- .- |--------+----+---+------| 2:48
37:20.56 80:05.00 290 | Direct 4.3 | 179
---+--------+---------+-----| 270/23 014 264 0:05 |------
18. Wpt. 116.05/120.0/020.3 | -35C 009 267 24 |144.6
LWB .-.. .-- -... |--------+----+---+------| 2:53
37:44.19 79:59.73 290 | Direct 11.6 | 155
---+--------+---------+-----| 271/28 018 264 0:15 |------
19. Wpt. 114.2/120.0/017.6 | -35C 012 267 65 |156.2
EKN . -.- -. |--------+----+---+------| 3:08
38:47.96 79:45.21 290 | Direct 6.9 | 90
---+--------+---------+-----| 279/32 017 320 0:08 |------
20. Wpt. 111.6/120.0/013.4 | -19C 011 319 40 |163.1
MGW -- --. .-- |--------+----+---+------| 3:16
39:27.73 79:35.93 169 | Direct 5.4 | 50
---+--------+---------+-----| 271/27 015 298 0:06 |------
21. Wpt. 108.2/300.0/005.5 | -9 C 010 301 34 |168.5
IHD .. .... -.. |--------+----+---+------| 3:22
40:00.70 79:28.10 63 | Direct 3.1 | 16
---+--------+---------+-----| 279/31 016 287 0:04 |------
22. LBE Apt. | -4 C 010 286 16 |171.6
Latrobe PA (Arnold Palm |--------+----+---+------| 3:26
40:16.56 79:24.29 12 | | 0
---+--------+---------+-----| |------

NOTE: fuel calculations do not include required reserves.
Flight totals: fuel: 172 gallons, time: 3:26, distance 869.7 nm.
Average groundspeed 254 knots.
Great circle distance is 845.6 nm -- this route is 3% longer.

This route (and filing) works very well. Miami Center (ZMA) has no concept of
direct outside of their airspace. Jacksonville (ZJX) gives direct to almost
anywhere as long as it is not in Miami Center (ZMA) airspace.

I think there are way too many instrument rated pilots (and even worse CFIIs)
who could not do a computerized filing if the fuel bill depended on it. Quite
sad and yet the tools are free. You only need to know how to use them.


paul k. sanchez, cfii-mei
on eagles’ wings
2011 south perimeter road, suite g
fort lauderdale, florida 33309-7135
305-389-1742 wireless
954-776-0527 fax
954-965-8329 home/fax