Aviation crash videos on-line

Dear Mr. Henriques,

I am beginning to get fed up with your moralistic lections. I have put the
videos on-line to share them with other people, and hoping to receive some
new videos from other collectors. The reason that I used the aviation safety
newsgroup to announce the video webpage was because I know that crashes have
everything to do with aviation safety and people in this group may be extra
interested to look at them for many different reasons.

Whatever my intentions are to share the videos, it is not something that
requires your approval. The fact is that aviation crashes are fully ON-TOPIC
on this newsgroup. I don't have to put up with the opinion of some hypoctit
pilot who is involved in demonstration flights and air races, intended to
push flying to the limit. If it wasn't for guys like you, about 50% of all
crash videos would have never been shot because the crashes simply didn't
occur.

Flying is relatively safe, but pushing flight to the limit for the fun of it
just isn't. Don't complain if something goes wrong when guys like you are
willingly taking more risk than necessary during air races and demonstration
flights. And stop pointing fingers at people who are interested to see
thrilling aviation just because it simply exites them. Pilots like you
provided it to them in the first place!

And regarding the photographer that shot the photos of your friend's widow,
these guys are called journalists. It is people like them that fill the
newspapers with eye catching photos that make the readers feel the emotion
involved in incidents and accidents. It gives face to the cold text of the
news. For example: Just think of what 9/11 would have looked like to the
world without photos or video. The world just wouldn't be half as upset as
it is now.

I will continue to try and shoot beautiful and artistic aviation photographs
like can be seen at my photogalleries, and I will also continue to try and
keep the aviation videos on-line. Having learned from the first publication,
I think I will create a webpage at which I will publish one new video every
week. With about 100 videos available already, I have enough material to
publish for two years straight. Just keep checking
http://www.dappa.nl/crash.htm for the videos, or to see my photogalleries.

To all other readers: If you have any aviation crash videos for me, please
send them to .

Fly safe,
Iwan Bogels




"Dudley Henriques" schreef in bericht
ink.net...

"Jay Honeck" wrote in message
news:zem_c.101871$9d6.78381@attbi_s54...
What, precisely, do you see wrong with viewing aircraft crashes
for
reasons
other than flight safety?

I feel no need to justify my reasoning to you on the subject of
viewing
aircraft crash videos outside the safety context, any more than I
require you justify yourself to me.

Actually, I was just curious as to your reasoning.

I don't pretend to understand *why* viewing vehicle crashes is
entertaining
to the masses -- but it clearly is. Evidence of this is clearly seen
by the
success of NASCAR (now the number one sport in the world, based on
attendance), or the popularity of "demolition derbies" at any of
hundreds of
county fairgrounds across America.

Further evidence can be seen by the proliferation of "America's Worst
Police
Chases"-type of programming. These police videos -- many of them
depicting
auto wrecks and gunfights -- are hugely popular.

It's a peculiar phenomenon, I'll give you that -- but to "detest
people like
that" is to despise a huge percentage of Americans.
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"

You are injecting oranges into an apples discussing here.
the issue of whether or not crashes are entertaining to the masses is a
whole different issue than the ethics of putting crash video out on the
net for entertainment or to project one's "hobby".
You are simply going off topic and stating a possible reason for WHY
people might find crash video exciting and entertaining. Then you are
backing this up by telling me that YOU find these crash videos
"thrilling".
Thrilling isn't the issue here. Ethics is the issue, or more correctly,
the lack of ethics.
I would not argue that crash footage isn't "thrilling". I would argue
however, that those who engage in both providing such footage on the net
for general viewing , and viewing such footage for the purpose of the
"thrill" involved, and trying to pass their prurient interest off as
being associated with flight safety are not my kind of people.
Crash footage has a real and genuine use as a flight safety tool, and
presented in the correct context, BY PEOPLE IN THE SAFETY BUSINESS,
crash photography is welcomed by the safety community and the aviation
community at large. There is much to be learned from crash footage
presented in this manner.
But don't tell me above all people that some photographer out there
presenting his "wares" on the net that consist of gigs of crash video
that he clearly states is his "hobby" has been presented as a public
service or in a safety associated context. That's just plain bull ****!
These people are engaged in enhancing their images within their
community...that's it....that's all......nothing more than that. What's
important to them is the film speed.....the equipment used.......and
yes; the sheer excitement of the event itself...the more dramatic the
event, the more kudos for the photographer.
Don't try selling ME this crap as a safety issue. I know better. I stood
at the crash site of a close friend during the Cape May Air Races in 71.
His body was still in the cockpit of his AT6 crushed like a dishrag. I
held his wife in my arms as she tried hysterically to break away and
climb in the cockpit with her husband. I can still feel her shaking and
screaming to this day. I watched as a spectator....one of these
"photographers" we're discussing here....ran over to where we were
standing and took a picture, not of the wreck, but of HER!!!!
Crash video has a distinct place in our lives as pilots. We can learn
from it if it's presented in the proper context, but to allow ourselves
to be witness to a human tragedy for no other purpose than to enjoy our
"hobby" or satisfy our desire for excitement is not my idea of ethical
behavior.
BTW, in closing...that pilot friend's widow, I'll just call her Jere ,
remained a lifelong friend of ours. We finally lost her several years
ago to a stroke. We miss her very much.
Somewhere on this planet, a complete stranger, a person with a camera
who didn't know her, and could have cared less about her, has a picture
he took without her permission, at the most horrible and personal moment
of her life,that allows him to share that moment in time with her.
I hope he chokes on it!
And this is just ONE instance of many I've experienced through the years
concerning "crash photographers with a "hobby"!!!
Dudley Henriques
International Fighter Pilots Fellowship
Commercial Pilot/ CFI Retired

For personal email, please
replace the at with what goes there and
take out the Z's please!
dhenriquesZatZearthZlinkZdotZnet

"Iwan Bogels" wrote in message
...
Dear Mr. Henriques,

I am beginning to get fed up with your moralistic lections. I have put
the
videos on-line to share them with other people, and hoping to receive
some
new videos from other collectors. The reason that I used the aviation
safety
newsgroup to announce the video webpage was because I know that
crashes have
everything to do with aviation safety and people in this group may be
extra
interested to look at them for many different reasons.

Whatever my intentions are to share the videos, it is not something
that
requires your approval. The fact is that aviation crashes are fully
ON-TOPIC
on this newsgroup. I don't have to put up with the opinion of some
hypoctit
pilot who is involved in demonstration flights and air races, intended
to
push flying to the limit. If it wasn't for guys like you, about 50% of
all
crash videos would have never been shot because the crashes simply
didn't
occur.

Flying is relatively safe, but pushing flight to the limit for the fun
of it
just isn't. Don't complain if something goes wrong when guys like you
are
willingly taking more risk than necessary during air races and
demonstration
flights. And stop pointing fingers at people who are interested to see
thrilling aviation just because it simply exites them. Pilots like you
provided it to them in the first place!

And regarding the photographer that shot the photos of your friend's
widow,
these guys are called journalists. It is people like them that fill
the
newspapers with eye catching photos that make the readers feel the
emotion
involved in incidents and accidents. It gives face to the cold text of
the
news. For example: Just think of what 9/11 would have looked like to
the
world without photos or video. The world just wouldn't be half as
upset as
it is now.

I will continue to try and shoot beautiful and artistic aviation
photographs
like can be seen at my photogalleries, and I will also continue to try
and
keep the aviation videos on-line. Having learned from the first
publication,
I think I will create a webpage at which I will publish one new video
every
week. With about 100 videos available already, I have enough material
to
publish for two years straight. Just keep checking
http://www.dappa.nl/crash.htm for the videos, or to see my
photogalleries.

To all other readers: If you have any aviation crash videos for me,
please
send them to .

Fly safe,
Iwan Bogels




"Dudley Henriques" schreef in bericht
ink.net...

"Jay Honeck" wrote in message
news:zem_c.101871$9d6.78381@attbi_s54...
What, precisely, do you see wrong with viewing aircraft
crashes
for
reasons
other than flight safety?

I feel no need to justify my reasoning to you on the subject of
viewing
aircraft crash videos outside the safety context, any more than
I
require you justify yourself to me.

Actually, I was just curious as to your reasoning.

I don't pretend to understand *why* viewing vehicle crashes is
entertaining
to the masses -- but it clearly is. Evidence of this is clearly
seen
by the
success of NASCAR (now the number one sport in the world, based on
attendance), or the popularity of "demolition derbies" at any of
hundreds of
county fairgrounds across America.

Further evidence can be seen by the proliferation of "America's
Worst
Police
Chases"-type of programming. These police videos -- many of them
depicting
auto wrecks and gunfights -- are hugely popular.

It's a peculiar phenomenon, I'll give you that -- but to "detest
people like
that" is to despise a huge percentage of Americans.
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"

You are injecting oranges into an apples discussing here.
the issue of whether or not crashes are entertaining to the masses
is a
whole different issue than the ethics of putting crash video out on
the
net for entertainment or to project one's "hobby".
You are simply going off topic and stating a possible reason for WHY
people might find crash video exciting and entertaining. Then you
are
backing this up by telling me that YOU find these crash videos
"thrilling".
Thrilling isn't the issue here. Ethics is the issue, or more
correctly,
the lack of ethics.
I would not argue that crash footage isn't "thrilling". I would
argue
however, that those who engage in both providing such footage on the
net
for general viewing , and viewing such footage for the purpose of
the
"thrill" involved, and trying to pass their prurient interest off as
being associated with flight safety are not my kind of people.
Crash footage has a real and genuine use as a flight safety tool,
and
presented in the correct context, BY PEOPLE IN THE SAFETY BUSINESS,
crash photography is welcomed by the safety community and the
aviation
community at large. There is much to be learned from crash footage
presented in this manner.
But don't tell me above all people that some photographer out there
presenting his "wares" on the net that consist of gigs of crash
video
that he clearly states is his "hobby" has been presented as a public
service or in a safety associated context. That's just plain bull
****!
These people are engaged in enhancing their images within their
community...that's it....that's all......nothing more than that.
What's
important to them is the film speed.....the equipment used.......and
yes; the sheer excitement of the event itself...the more dramatic
the
event, the more kudos for the photographer.
Don't try selling ME this crap as a safety issue. I know better. I
stood
at the crash site of a close friend during the Cape May Air Races in
71.
His body was still in the cockpit of his AT6 crushed like a dishrag.
I
held his wife in my arms as she tried hysterically to break away and
climb in the cockpit with her husband. I can still feel her shaking
and
screaming to this day. I watched as a spectator....one of these
"photographers" we're discussing here....ran over to where we were
standing and took a picture, not of the wreck, but of HER!!!!
Crash video has a distinct place in our lives as pilots. We can
learn
from it if it's presented in the proper context, but to allow
ourselves
to be witness to a human tragedy for no other purpose than to enjoy
our
"hobby" or satisfy our desire for excitement is not my idea of
ethical
behavior.
BTW, in closing...that pilot friend's widow, I'll just call her Jere
,
remained a lifelong friend of ours. We finally lost her several
years
ago to a stroke. We miss her very much.
Somewhere on this planet, a complete stranger, a person with a
camera
who didn't know her, and could have cared less about her, has a
picture
he took without her permission, at the most horrible and personal
moment
of her life,that allows him to share that moment in time with her.
I hope he chokes on it!
And this is just ONE instance of many I've experienced through the
years
concerning "crash photographers with a "hobby"!!!
Dudley Henriques
International Fighter Pilots Fellowship
Commercial Pilot/ CFI Retired

For personal email, please
replace the at with what goes there and
take out the Z's please!
dhenriquesZatZearthZlinkZdotZnet

This post is so filled with your generalities about race and airshow
pilots that I don't believe it even requires an answer from me one way
or the other. You have made a complete case that shows anyone with half
a brain exactly what I was talking about when I first confronted you.
As for the "journalist" that shot the photo of my friend's widow; he was
no journalist; he was a spectator with a camera. He dragged his two
small children over with him to see the wreck. I took the camera from
him personally and smashed it on the ground. He was at that point
confronted by two more of our friends and barely escaped with his bones
intact.
So much for your "journalism"!
As I said, feel free to spew your stuff anywhere you like, and you're
right; you don't need my approval to do it. But you'll find me there
when you do just the same.
Welcome to Usenet! You don't dictate policy here. You'll get your share
of positive reaction and have to take the negative along with it, or
you'll get VERY frustrated around here my friend. Unfortunately for you,
I go with your territory, so get used to me. Anytime I see you pushing
crash video without a stated reason for doing so, I'll comment anyway I
please.

Dudley Henriques
International Fighter Pilots Fellowship
Commercial Pilot/ CFI Retired

For personal email, please
replace the at with what goes there and
take out the Z's please!
dhenriquesZatZearthZlinkZdotZnet

A twently line reponse.
An 8 line SIG file
Then you quote back three posters including
yourself including your own SIG file for a grand
total of over 230 lines of quoted text.

DUDLEY ------- WHY WON'T YOU TRIM YOUR POSTS...??????

"For Crying Out Loud" wrote in message
...
A twently line reponse.
An 8 line SIG file
Then you quote back three posters including
yourself including your own SIG file for a grand
total of over 230 lines of quoted text.

DUDLEY ------- WHY WON'T YOU TRIM YOUR POSTS...??????

Because I want people to actually READ what this guy is selling, that's
why!
If it bothers you, pass it up!
Dudley Henriques
International Fighter Pilots Fellowship
Commercial Pilot/ CFI Retired

For personal email, please
replace the at with what goes there and
take out the Z's please!
dhenriquesZatZearthZlinkZdotZnet

"Dudley Henriques" wrote in message
ink.net...

"For Crying Out Loud" wrote in message
...
A twently line reponse.
An 8 line SIG file
Then you quote back three posters including
yourself including your own SIG file for a grand
total of over 230 lines of quoted text.

DUDLEY ------- WHY WON'T YOU TRIM YOUR POSTS...??????

Because I want people to actually READ what this guy is selling, that's
why!
If it bothers you, pass it up!

Fair enough. So why don't you just apply the same advice to the video site
if it bothers you?

John

"John Mullen" wrote in message
...
"Dudley Henriques" wrote in message
ink.net...

"For Crying Out Loud" wrote in message
...
A twently line reponse.
An 8 line SIG file
Then you quote back three posters including
yourself including your own SIG file for a grand
total of over 230 lines of quoted text.

DUDLEY ------- WHY WON'T YOU TRIM YOUR POSTS...??????

Because I want people to actually READ what this guy is selling,
that's
why!
If it bothers you, pass it up!

Fair enough. So why don't you just apply the same advice to the video
site
if it bothers you?

John

Objecting to the photographer who set up this site is not an attempt to
sway people from visiting the site. That is an individual decision. My
objection was simply stated to express my personal feelings about people
who take these photos for entertainment. Nothing more. If the thread
provokes people into giving some thought to the entire issue of crash
photos for entertainment, I have been successful in what I wished to
say...that's it....nothing more exciting than that.
It's not a cause with me.....just a sentiment expressed then followed up
..
Dudley Henriques
International Fighter Pilots Fellowship
Commercial Pilot/ CFI Retired

For personal email, please
replace the at with what goes there and
take out the Z's please!
dhenriquesZatZearthZlinkZdotZnet