Records Show Bush Guard Commitment Unmet

Most fighter jocks I know love single seaters, and I don't know any
of them that preferred to fly a side-by-side ship, if there was anything
else
available.

Most generalizations don't stand up. OK, name five fighter pilots that
you "know" who wouldn't fly any airplane that was full of free gas.

The one that comes to mind first is Diz Laird, who thought once you had a
"friend" in the cockpit, it was no longer a "fighter". I've sat at tables with
fighter aces at their reunions in San Diego, Mesa, San Antonio and other places
and Diz' comments were in line with what the guys were saying. That said,
almost anyone with a history of flying would fly in a motorized ****can, if
that was the only thing available. I can't imagine why Bush would go through
training and then walk away from a once in a lifetime opportunity to fly the
Deuce, or any other jet fighter.

Gordon
====(A+C====
USN SAR

Its always better to lose -an- engine, not -the- engine.

Most generalizations don't stand up. OK, name five fighter pilots that
you "know" who wouldn't fly any airplane that was full of free gas.

I mentioned Diz - the other name that pops up right off the bat is Robin Olds,
who used to tell his backseater to "shut up and hold on".

Besides, I didn't say the guys wouldn't ride in a two-seater, I said

I don't know any
of them that preferred to fly a side-by-side ship, if there was anything
else
available.

Did you miss that part of my comment,
Bob?

Gordon
====(A+C====
USN SAR

Its always better to lose -an- engine, not -the- engine.

"Krztalizer" wrote

Most generalizations don't stand up. OK, name five fighter pilots that
you "know" who wouldn't fly any airplane that was full of free gas.

I mentioned Diz - the other name that pops up right off the bat is Robin Olds,
who used to tell his backseater to "shut up and hold on".

I met him. When he left my wife asked "who was that asshole?" and I
said "he's a fighter pilot, need I say more?"

Besides, I didn't say the guys wouldn't ride in a two-seater, I said

I don't know any
of them that preferred to fly a side-by-side ship, if there was anything
else
available.

Did you miss that part of my comment,
Bob?

Well, I was thinking: here's an F-102, and here's a T-33... Hmm, decisions,
decisions...

On Thu, 9 Sep 2004 00:24:27 -0500, "Bob Coe" wrote:

"Krztalizer" wrote

Most generalizations don't stand up. OK, name five fighter pilots that
you "know" who wouldn't fly any airplane that was full of free gas.

Here's one. I haven't flown a day since I left the AF. While flying an
airplane is undeniably fun, just flying an airplane isn't the same as
flying operationally. I'll often tell folks who ask why I didn't fly
with the airlines if they would ask Mario Andretti why he didn't go to
work for Greyhound after he left F1/IRC racing.

I mentioned Diz - the other name that pops up right off the bat is Robin Olds,
who used to tell his backseater to "shut up and hold on".

Do you know Robin? I'm afraid that I can't picture the Robin Olds I
know saying that unless it was a necessary warning when something
unusual was about to occur. Robin is the consummate professional in
fighter aviation and knew (and knows) that the F-4 is a two-person
airplane and both parties have a critical role to perform.

Although I've heard many times about single-seat drivers telling the
WSO to go cold mike, I've never known a single one who did so. It's
urban legend.

I met him. When he left my wife asked "who was that asshole?" and I
said "he's a fighter pilot, need I say more?"

Your wife may have been going through an emotional crisis, or maybe
she hasn't met many warriors. Lesser men will often say the same thing
after an encounter with Robin.



Ed Rasimus
Fighter Pilot (USAF-Ret)
"When Thunder Rolled"
"Phantom Flights, Bangkok Nights"
Both from Smithsonian Books
***www.thunderchief.org

After an exhausting session with Victoria's Secret Police, Ed Rasimus
confessed the following:

Here's one. I haven't flown a day since I left the AF. While flying an
airplane is undeniably fun, just flying an airplane isn't the same as
flying operationally.

You're right, but you are undeniably missing something. Or you simply
don't "love" flying. And that's OK too. I never get tired of admiring
the terrain and wondering how long it took settlers to get from A to
B, or watching the magnitude of forest fires, flying by Mount Logan,
or my personal favorite...looking straight above the jet as the Aurora
Borealis literally dances; meteor showers viewed from FL410 are pretty
neat too.

Not opertional? I'm pretty sure C-130 guys hauling beans and bullets
think they're operational. I'd even bet BUFDRVR thinks launching ALCMs
or JDAMs from FL350 thinks he's operational. I think "slam dunk"
arrivals are pretty operational, as are single engine landings, and
CAT II/III landings, and Resolution Advisories from TCAS in the
traffic pattern, or wind shear advisories, and picking your way thru
TRWs forming a line from Winnipeg Manitoba to Omaha too. Guys carrying
H&K .40 cals in the cockpit and airlines working on MANPADs
countermeasures is something operational. We just can't "jettison the
jet" (eject) if things turn to ****.

I'll often tell folks who ask why I didn't fly with the airlines if
they would ask Mario Andretti why he didn't go to
work for Greyhound after he left F1/IRC racing.

That's pretty humble, comparing yourself to Mario 8-) But I'd bet you
a million bucks that Mario would do it in a heartbeat if it were the
only way he could keep driving.

Respectfully, I'd submit you don't think being an airline wienie is
exciting enough after your combat experience, and that's cool. I've
flown with at least a hundred of your contemporaries (including Van
Heywood from your first book, one of my favorites) and guys like
myself with ZERO combat experience...flying fighters was fun, but so
is the 757...and it has a mission.

Different strokes...


Robey

Robey Price wrote:

I never get tired of admiring
the terrain and wondering....

Wow, that's like..."Operational"!!!
[or "Aerospace", in a previous era]


I think "slam dunk"
arrivals are pretty operational,
as are single engine landings....

Oh, I thoroughly agree, Robey: single engine landings in the 757 _are_
pretty much the same as single engine landings in the F-100, for
example. About the same degree of interest is shown by the participants,
and the outcome is usually not seriously in doubt. Heart rate is about
the same -- yeah, I'd say they are about equally non-events, most of the
time.

But I don't know about those "slam dunk" arrivals: they'll take a lot
out of a man. The toughest thing about flying the 757 is getting new
F/Os to believe what is about to happen to them as they start the
letdown for LAX. Why, setting there watching the poor F/O trying to
program the jet to do what she could barely do by hand-flying it is
enough to get a guy laughing so hard he damn near spills his coffee.


CAT II/III landings, and Resolution Advisories from TCAS in the
traffic pattern....

God, Robey, how do you stand the mental strain?


...I'd bet you a million bucks that Mario would [work for Greyhound]
in a heartbeat if it were the only way he could keep driving.

I'd bet the few dollars in my pocket right now that he'd think you were
an idiot and he'd probably say so, but go ahead and ask him.


...flying fighters was fun, but so
is the 757...and it has a mission.

The toughest thing about flying a fighter would be what exactly, Robey?
Maybe hunting around for a mission? And especially one that gives you a
chance to wonder about the early settlers or watch the Northern Lights?
Yeah, that part could be a challenge.

I think I can hear Rasimus snorting and mumbling something best left
unwritten, all the way over here.


Jack

After an exhausting session with Victoria's Secret Police, Jack
confessed the following:

Wow, that's like..."Operational"!!!
[or "Aerospace", in a previous era]

Uh, no...that's part of the wonder and awe some folks can experience
while flying. Flying airliners is all about money (their payckeck) to
some folks, but some of us also fly little bitty airplanes on days
off. Revenue flying is operational...getting to smile 'cause you love
flying is just a bonus. Sounds silly to you, but lots of folks envy me
'cause I smile when I go to work.

God, Robey, how do you stand the mental strain?

Got be tough...takes a great deal of intestinal fortitude...and the
right seniority number. Just think of me as a manly man, doing manly
things in a manly manner.

...I'd bet you a million bucks that Mario would [work for Greyhound]
in a heartbeat if it were the only way he could keep driving.

I'd bet the few dollars in my pocket right now that he'd think you were
an idiot and he'd probably say so, but go ahead and ask him.

Send him over after you two have dinner tonight.

The toughest thing about flying a fighter would be what exactly, Robey?

Well since I never flew combat...in the Phantom, I thought night AAR
in the wx was sporting, as was a no-**** single engine approach. I
thought compressor stalls at FL450 during Viper FCFs was sporting, as
was landing min fuel in a snow storm after diverting. Then again,
intramural crud at the O'Club bar on friday nights was certainly more
physical.

Gosh Jack...wanna let me play, now?

Maybe hunting around for a mission? And especially one that gives you a
chance to wonder about the early settlers or watch the Northern Lights?
Yeah, that part could be a challenge.

I think I can hear Rasimus snorting and mumbling something best left
unwritten, all the way over here.

Everybody's got their own little sack of rocks to tote around. Maybe
he's singing Monty Python's "Lumberjack" song.

Hugs and Kisses...stud.

robey

"Ed Rasimus" wrote in message
...
On Thu, 9 Sep 2004 00:24:27 -0500, "Bob Coe" wrote:

"Krztalizer" wrote

Most generalizations don't stand up. OK, name five fighter pilots
that
you "know" who wouldn't fly any airplane that was full of free gas.

Here's one. I haven't flown a day since I left the AF. While flying an
airplane is undeniably fun, just flying an airplane isn't the same as
flying operationally. I'll often tell folks who ask why I didn't fly
with the airlines if they would ask Mario Andretti why he didn't go to
work for Greyhound after he left F1/IRC racing.

I mentioned Diz - the other name that pops up right off the bat is
Robin Olds,
who used to tell his backseater to "shut up and hold on".

Do you know Robin? I'm afraid that I can't picture the Robin Olds I
know saying that unless it was a necessary warning when something
unusual was about to occur. Robin is the consummate professional in
fighter aviation and knew (and knows) that the F-4 is a two-person
airplane and both parties have a critical role to perform.

Although I've heard many times about single-seat drivers telling the
WSO to go cold mike, I've never known a single one who did so. It's
urban legend.

I met him. When he left my wife asked "who was that asshole?" and I
said "he's a fighter pilot, need I say more?"

Your wife may have been going through an emotional crisis, or maybe
she hasn't met many warriors. Lesser men will often say the same thing
after an encounter with Robin.

Uhhmm...that comment from Bob was not related to Olds, but to the other
pilot mentioned in the discussion.

Brooks



Ed Rasimus
Fighter Pilot (USAF-Ret)
"When Thunder Rolled"
"Phantom Flights, Bangkok Nights"
Both from Smithsonian Books
***www.thunderchief.org

On Thu, 9 Sep 2004 13:28:00 -0400, "Kevin Brooks"
wrote:

Uhhmm...that comment from Bob was not related to Olds, but to the other
pilot mentioned in the discussion.

It certainly sounded like it was related to Olds. I found it hard to
believe because he is a consummate gentleman, although also probably
the most aggressive air warrior you may ever have the privilege to
meet.

Coincidentally (and I didn't know it this AM), I went to the local
Daedalians meeting for lunch at USAFA. The guest speakers today were a
tag-team match of Bob Titus (3 MiGs in SEA and lots of test pilot
experience including the zero-length launch of the F-100) and Robin.
Both charmed the gathering of military aviatiors for quite a while.

There was some young punk named Ritchie in the front row who claimed
to have some F-4 time as well!

A pretty impressive lunch bunch.



Ed Rasimus
Fighter Pilot (USAF-Ret)
"When Thunder Rolled"
"Phantom Flights, Bangkok Nights"
Both from Smithsonian Books
***www.thunderchief.org

"Ed Rasimus" wrote in message
...
On Thu, 9 Sep 2004 13:28:00 -0400, "Kevin Brooks"
wrote:

Uhhmm...that comment from Bob was not related to Olds, but to the other
pilot mentioned in the discussion.

It certainly sounded like it was related to Olds. I found it hard to
believe because he is a consummate gentleman, although also probably
the most aggressive air warrior you may ever have the privilege to
meet.

You may be right; I took it as referring to "Diz", but on second reading it
could go either way.

Brooks


Coincidentally (and I didn't know it this AM), I went to the local
Daedalians meeting for lunch at USAFA. The guest speakers today were a
tag-team match of Bob Titus (3 MiGs in SEA and lots of test pilot
experience including the zero-length launch of the F-100) and Robin.
Both charmed the gathering of military aviatiors for quite a while.

There was some young punk named Ritchie in the front row who claimed
to have some F-4 time as well!


A pretty impressive lunch bunch.



Ed Rasimus
Fighter Pilot (USAF-Ret)
"When Thunder Rolled"
"Phantom Flights, Bangkok Nights"
Both from Smithsonian Books
***www.thunderchief.org