Glider Towplane Mid-air – TP PowerFLARM Inop

Once the initial negative G of the pitch over passed, the vertical
descent is essentially a zero G situation.Â* It should be really easy to
get unstrapped and out.Â* Perhaps it was simply denial of what was
happening.Â* Given an altitude at or above 2,000' initially, it would
take over 5 seconds to reach the ground, probably 6 to 8 seconds.

On 2/10/2020 2:14 PM, George Haeh wrote:
My guess is that they didn't have enough time to get out with the forces involved after the tail came off. The report does not mention whether the canopies were released.

--
Dan, 5J

When I was towing, I would visually confirm that the glider was off and
then roll steeply and dive.Â* If I hadn't felt the glider get off, I
would fly straight and level for a bit to assure clearance before
beginning a more moderate descent.Â* I also maintained awareness of any
gliders that had not climbed away.

I would blame both of the pilots in this accident but would assign most
of the blame to the tow pilot.Â* Making what amounts to a level turn just
after release is asking for trouble.

On 2/11/2020 8:51 AM, Waveguru wrote:
This seems to happen every few years, where the tow plane makes a left turn and the glider make a right and they come around and collide. I changed the way we do it here so that the glider only makes a slight right turn, and then keeps his eye on the tow plane, so that at least one of the pair of planes can more easily maintain separation. When both planes make a 360° turn, neither of them can see the other. This kind of accident is the result.

Boggs

--
Dan, 5J

There is nothing easy or trivial about jumping out of uncontrollable glider.. You might be lucky with g-forces or not. Glider without tail can loose wings in quick succession, and then you don't have time to do anything anymore, no matter what the altitude is.

True, but that's why my initial question was whether or not an attempt
was made to exit the aircraft, e.g., unlatched canopies or harnesses.Â*
The posted report made no mention of either yet it did mention the
wearing of parachutes.

There was also no mention of losing wings, etc.Â* I believe the report
said that all of the aircraft with the exception of the vertical and
horizontal tail planes was found at the impact site.

On 2/11/2020 12:01 PM, krasw wrote:
There is nothing easy or trivial about jumping out of uncontrollable glider. You might be lucky with g-forces or not. Glider without tail can loose wings in quick succession, and then you don't have time to do anything anymore, no matter what the altitude is.

--
Dan, 5J

TSB Canada confirmed to me that the canopies remained closed.

Given the low drag, it's about 8 seconds to lose the first 1,000' – and about 3 more for the next 1,000.

Question for those who bailed out after losing your tail: How high were you when the tail came off?

My glider blunted and I was hanging from my straps and fell out as soon as I released the harness. My mohair was at 3000 ft agl but I would have had no problems from 2000.

Anyway, reading this will make me pay more attention to where the tug goes after release. At our club to avoid shock cooling the tug generally accelerates away level before reducing power, and the glider does a climbing turn to slow down.

On Tuesday, February 11, 2020 at 6:15:52 PM UTC-6, waremark wrote:
My glider blunted and I was hanging from my straps and fell out as soon as I released the harness. My mohair was at 3000 ft agl but I would have had no problems from 2000.

Anyway, reading this will make me pay more attention to where the tug goes after release. At our club to avoid shock cooling the tug generally accelerates away level before reducing power, and the glider does a climbing turn to slow down.

please elaborate "blunted" and "mohair"
thanks,
Scott

On Tuesday, February 11, 2020 at 5:51:24 PM UTC-8, Scott Williams wrote:
On Tuesday, February 11, 2020 at 6:15:52 PM UTC-6, waremark wrote:
My glider blunted and I was hanging from my straps and fell out as soon as I released the harness. My mohair was at 3000 ft agl but I would have had no problems from 2000.

Anyway, reading this will make me pay more attention to where the tug goes after release. At our club to avoid shock cooling the tug generally accelerates away level before reducing power, and the glider does a climbing turn to slow down.

please elaborate "blunted" and "mohair"

I'd guess "bunted" and "midair". Aeronautical terms not recognized by the spell checker / auto correct he's using.

:-)

On Tuesday, February 11, 2020 at 10:53:29 AM UTC-8, Dan Marotta wrote:
When I was towing, I would visually confirm that the glider was off and
then roll steeply and dive.Â* If I hadn't felt the glider get off, I
would fly straight and level for a bit to assure clearance before
beginning a more moderate descent.Â* I also maintained awareness of any
gliders that had not climbed away.

I would blame both of the pilots in this accident but would assign most
of the blame to the tow pilot.Â* Making what amounts to a level turn just
after release is asking for trouble.

On 2/11/2020 8:51 AM, Waveguru wrote:
This seems to happen every few years, where the tow plane makes a left turn and the glider make a right and they come around and collide. I changed the way we do it here so that the glider only makes a slight right turn, and then keeps his eye on the tow plane, so that at least one of the pair of planes can more easily maintain separation. When both planes make a 360° turn, neither of them can see the other. This kind of accident is the result.

Boggs

--
Dan, 5J

You can't hardly blame the glider pilot: they were flying straight ahead and were struck from behind. The tow pilot is clearly the one at fault.

Tom

Further contributing to thread drift...

On 2/11/2020 9:46 PM, 2G wrote:
On Tuesday, February 11, 2020 at 10:53:29 AM UTC-8, Dan Marotta wrote:
When I was towing, I would visually confirm that the glider was off and
then roll steeply and dive. If I hadn't felt the glider get off, I would
fly straight and level for a bit to assure clearance before beginning a
more moderate descent. I also maintained awareness of any gliders that
had not climbed away.

I would blame both of the pilots in this accident but would assign most
of the blame to the tow pilot. Making what amounts to a level turn just
after release is asking for trouble.

On 2/11/2020 8:51 AM, Waveguru wrote:
This seems to happen every few years, where the tow plane makes a left
turn and the glider make a right and they come around and collide. I
changed the way we do it here so that the glider only makes a slight
right turn, and then keeps his eye on the tow plane, so that at least
one of the pair of planes can more easily maintain separation. When
both planes make a 360° turn, neither of them can see the other. This
kind of accident is the result.

Boggs

-- Dan, 5J

You can't hardly blame the glider pilot: they were flying straight ahead
and were struck from behind. The tow pilot is clearly the one at fault.

Tom

This sort of mid-air is - to me - excruciatingly: sad; horrifying; and
arguably 100% easily avoidable by every paranoid glider pilot. Color me a
paranoid pilot, who believes in controlling what *this* Joe Paranoid Pilot can
control.

Once I was savvy enough to be primary control-handler (i.e. *before* obtaining
my pilot certificate) I always - and I mean ALWAYS!!! - kept a beady eye on
the tug post-release, until I was 100% certain he could no longer hit me
without Mr. Tuggie actively trying to do so by applying power, climbing back
up, and sneaking into my 6 0'clock position. Perhaps 99% of the time, I'd see
him rolling left and soon-enough beginning the stoop back to the field. Those
few times this didn't happen (e.g. due to a "soft release" or a release not
felt due to turbulence or whatever), I'd halt my right bank and watch him
continue his climb until I either saw him figure out I was off and then
indubitably descend, or, until he was sufficiently high and far enough away
that I could begin my thermal search (necessitating turning my back on Mr
Tuggie, obviously) with sufficient clearance that he couldn't hit me *before*
I'd regained a visual on him.

My reasoning was simple. At the instant of release, my highest known-to-me
collision threat was Mr. Tuggie, so why would I NOT pay him close attention
until our diverging flight paths put him in the same category as all those
other not-yet-seen threats were to me? I actually told my ab-initio instructor
why I'd halted the post-release right bank once, when for some reason or
other, Mr. Tuggie briefly delayed beginning his stoop. He laughed and said
something to the effect, "That's fine by ME!"

Post-release "clearance by rote" is - as this terrible accident strongly
suggests - a seriously flawed methodology.

Bob W.